 Brand name firearms, do you play around with them? |
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 May 11 2004, 12:13 PM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 345 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Leeds, UK Member No.: 4,046  |
Sound-supressed SMGs are the only way to go for the true urban warrior. Not that useless Ingram though - SCK Model 100 (upgraded to SL2, natch). Even better, carry 2 and have the other with GV4 for when noise no longer matters. |
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May 12 2004, 02:41 AM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 413 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,835 |
So . . . the Fineas Guage should actually be a very heavy duty crossbow, that fires solid steel (or iron! yay!) spikes, right? ;-) That would actually be extremely cool, if your character had the Distinctive Style flaw ... =) And by extremely cool, I mean as in it inspires everyone to shoot you first, in much the same way that WW2 soldiers would Shoot the Guy with the Sword first. ;) |
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May 12 2004, 03:15 AM
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#28
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
So whats the cost for upgrading from SL1 to SL2? |
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May 12 2004, 08:16 PM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 478 Joined: 18-December 03 From: Louisville, KY Member No.: 5,918 |
Dude, forget the Ingram, how about just an old school Tec-9 or an Uzi?
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May 12 2004, 08:30 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 973 Joined: 3-October 03 Member No.: 5,677 |
Hell yeah. Uzi for me. The Ingram has always been one ugly-ass SMG to me. I'll take my old reliable 'natch any day over that ugly little T-shape of metal. |
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May 13 2004, 01:56 AM
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#31
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
That gun is exactly the same was the Ingram Warrior-10. The only difference is the Warrior-10 is lighter and cheaper. |
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May 13 2004, 04:43 PM
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#32
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Guests |
Then it's not "exactly" the same, is it?
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May 13 2004, 04:53 PM
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#33
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
You know, that, and the SCK has an integral smartlink.
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May 13 2004, 05:57 PM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 345 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Leeds, UK Member No.: 4,046 |
The point of the thread was that names don't mean squat - except for a sense of personal style. Even if the Ingram Warrior 10 and SCK 100 were *totally* identical it matters to my Sammie that he's carrying the best SMG in the world...
Hell, we all have irrational brand loyalty (I use a single brand of grooming products, I always buy Nike trainers and Oakley sunglasses - because in each case a quck test will show that the quality is consistent and the product will serve me through its life - I already know what to expect), sure, if someone recommends something I'll try it but it has to have show it's better than the current favourite in both short-term and long-term tests. I just like to apply something similar in game... |
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 May 13 2004, 11:10 PM
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#35
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The Sewer Jockey Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 857 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Kent, United Kingdom Member No.: 1,197 |
I've re-named a load of guns in the Character Generator DAT files for use in London-based games - IWS weapons mainly, with Bond & Carrington etc. thrown in for good measure.
I am also inspired by the vehicles - I've always been a fan of the MAD MAX series of films, and have an irrational desire to load up a kick-ass road warrior physad with a cut-down coach gun and a Knight Errant modified Mustang - the alternative to the Lone Star 3220 turbo... |
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May 14 2004, 02:53 AM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 752 |
all the FASA names are arbitrary anyway. some of the top firearms manufacturers like Glock and SIG aren't there at all. shin chuo kogyo doesn't exist and was acquired by electronics corp Minebea in 1975 who make a few weapons for the SDF only, and the 100 doesn't follow their weapons naming system at all (made in 2000? because 100th year of Heisei would be 2089). http://www.minebea.co.jp/english/company/a...ry/history.html basically all the guns cost about the same and have the same damage and range so it comes down to concealability and that stat is soo messed up you can't take it seriously. Shadowrun is dead anyway, I'm thinking of just starting up a game of Spycraft pretty soon, they have good firearms rules too.
the USSS carry the P229 in .357SIG, but the 220s and 226s are best IMHO, notice the external extractor on the new 226s? some little niceities that the other models don't have. i suggest you do some character development and rent one at your local range, a very nice piece.
about Beretta versus Taurus: there's a lot of little refinements that make the difference in price worth the Beretta. Berettas got chromed chambers and barrels, redesigned and strengthened locking block, decockers (only a few Taurus' have decockers) and those reports of weak metalurgy are ill-goten Ruger propaganda based on some crazy Navy SEALS trying to make a subsonic 9mm loading with a 158gr .38 special bullet going just under the sound barrier. |
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May 14 2004, 03:04 AM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 4-March 03 Member No.: 4,196 |
It's hard to say it's dead when there's still scheduled releases. Like wearing a 5atan r00lz shirt to chuch, asking for trouble. If you meant canon rules could be weird, and in some cases stupid (Conceal ratings being one example) - then I'd agree. A lot of people add house rules to make the game suit them better. If upset because a sci-fantasy game has weird/stupid/inaccurate names for things - just rename them and call it good.
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May 14 2004, 03:10 AM
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#38
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Otomik just likes to troll a little. You get over it. Let him tell you about the LD20.
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May 14 2004, 03:23 AM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 752 |
sorry, that was impolite to just throw that out but i keep looking at the new books that come out and i don't think they compare to the older stuff. but hey the old immortal elf bug shaman and countless rocknroll band-themed adventures wasn't that great either, maybe it's just me.
i'm also pissed they got rid of the lounge here. :S LD20? |
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May 14 2004, 03:26 AM
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#40
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
The blanking Jew gun, my friend. And your bitter heart is not alone on the Lounge.
However, Dragons, SotA, and even SoNA seem to me better than NAGtNA, NAN1&2 and TT in terms of usability. This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: May 14 2004, 03:28 AM |
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May 14 2004, 03:50 AM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 752 |
yeah i'm squirming on that one but 1. does it matter i'm a quarter jewish? 2. that text was taken down 3. yeah well it is pretty worthless, perhaps similar sentiments inspired this thread? 4. i fired a IMI Jericho 941FS last saturday and as cz75 copies go, it's one of the best. yes generally the new releases are more down to earth and immediately useful for a variety of campaigns, i disagree about NeoAnarchistGuide, it was worth it for the McHughes DocWagon info alone. |
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May 14 2004, 05:57 AM
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#42
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
otomik, you'll get no disagreement from me about the abject stupidity of so much that is canon, but Spycraft? It's an interesting game that goes for a very specific theme, but as a general system, I really have to question the sanity of guys who wrote an entire guide to modern firearms and then made every single gun do either 2d6 or 2d8 damage.
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May 14 2004, 07:32 AM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 4-March 03 Member No.: 4,196 |
Almost on topic: There's no Mateba auto revolver , so it could be an alternate name for a Ruger Super Warhawk. Of course Matebas are double action. The real-world price of about 1500 Euros (before smartlinks, etc) should balance it out.
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May 14 2004, 08:07 AM
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#44
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
What does double action have to do with anything? Almost every modern revolver is made with a double action trigger.
Real world Matebas cost that much because they're high precision weapons and supposedly very accurate with very low recoil. |
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May 14 2004, 08:22 AM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 4-March 03 Member No.: 4,196 |
Because the RSW is "SS" and keeping the extra point of power (it does fire .454, .44, and .357, thus the RSW comment, I think a Mateba auto-revolver would do 10M) and the increased price for "SA" firing type is a game design balance thing, not having anything to do with the real world. There's no reason the RSW is a single action weapon (the real world Super Redhawk is DA), so I'm assuming it was done for balance of some sort.
And since I've been playing too much Hitman recently; I'll call the Browning Max-Power an AMT Hardballer (with a "hi-cap" magazine), just add the engraving, grips, and get a custom left hander to go with it. |
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May 14 2004, 08:33 AM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 752 |
perhaps there's some confusion, Spycraft uses it's own rules and has nothing to do with D20 Modern. D20 Modern has horrible weapons rules that oversimplify everything till it's about like shadowrun with damages like holdout: useless, light: useless, heavy: 9M. spycraft has damages like 9mm D10 .40 D12 .45 D10+2 .30-06 2D10 Spycraft uses the Modern Arms Guide, D20 Modern uses Weapons Locker or UltraModern Firearms books |
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May 14 2004, 08:42 AM
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#47
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I've got a, uhh, slight problem with the way d20 Spycraft does weapons, even if it's somewhat better than d20 Modern in that respect. I've got some problems with the game in general, most of which you can find in this thread.
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May 14 2004, 01:43 PM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 16-February 04 From: Ohio, USA Member No.: 6,083 |
Being a single action revolver owner in real life I would say that with the fast growing popularity of cowboy action shooting competitions and the popularity of modern versions of the Single Action Revolvers like the Ruger Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk for hunting I would guess that the number of modern revolvers made in single action approaches %50 of the production of revolvers. This is especially true as many police department are migrating away from the service revolvers to carrying more semi-auto handguns. I know Ruger firearms offers more models with more options in a larger variety of cartridges in single action frames than double action frames. On top of that the single action frames are stronger then most double action frames, the complete frame with no cutout for the mechanism to allow the cylinder to swing out and the fixed cylinder axle produce a noticeable stronger framed revolver for the same weight. I have found reloading manuals for 357 Mag and 44 Mag that have loads that are only to be fired in Ruger single action revolvers and T/C Encore and Contender firearms as they exceed SAAMI pressure specs for the cartridge and are only safe in those over built frames. You will never find a double action revolver chambered in 45-70, 450Marlin, 458 Win or 600NE but I have seen examples of all of these cartridges in a single action pistols. My character in our present game even carries a Single Action Revolver in 45Colt. There’s probably a bit of Bob playing Bob there. :-) mcb PS Edit: Quick check at Ruger shows 122 single action models avalible 128 if we count the blackpowder ones. Only 40 models avalible in double action. This take into account all frame styles and cartridge offerings. |
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May 14 2004, 05:15 PM
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#49
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
It's been so long since I looked at the canon guns, I'd completely forgotten about that SS silliness. I suggest you just make it SA and leave it at that. Even if it is single action (not to me confused with semi auto), cocking the hammer should be a free action, given the other shit that's available to you as free actions. If you want a quick ruling on what a Mateba would be: 6 shots, 9 or 10M damage, internal overbarrel weight and unique barrel access give two points of recoil comp. Just use real world prices and you're set. Doesn't really make a hell of a lot of sense, but it's as good as it gets without rewriting canon. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.
I did, actually, mix the two up. But I've read through the Modern Arms Guide and the Spycraft core rulebook, and while I liked a fair amount of stuff, I was turned off by both the general unrealism of the system (even if it was intentional) and the silliness of the setting. It's not that the system's bad— I think it's pretty well designed and solidly built— but that the genre is too campy to interest me.
Should've clarified that I mean that almost all modern revolvers are at least available in double action, not that double action is almost all that's made. Really, my point was that action has pretty much no bearing on functionality in SR. |
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May 14 2004, 05:50 PM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 16-February 04 From: Ohio, USA Member No.: 6,083 |
Did you mean that all modern pistol cartridges are available in double action? That is true. All of Rugers single actions revolvers are modern firearms. Although they function and look nearly identical to the old Colt Army single action they are modern guns and internally have many changes that make them both more reliable and safer then the orginal they are based on. The biggest being the transfer bar mechanism that makes it safe to carry the revolver with the hammer down on a live chamber, something that was very dangerous for your foot with the original Colts. They are modern firearms in every sense of the word. As for effect on Shadawrun game play our group decided that single action revolvers are equivalent to SS due to the need to manual cock the hammer to fire each round, were double action revolvers would get SA operation. I don't remember if this is the way it works by the rules as I don't think there are any single action revolvers spelled out in SR or CC. On top of that reloading a normal revolver assumes the cylinder swings opens and allow for quickly ejecting all the empty cases in one quick move. Thus reloading a double action is, IIRC, a # of rounds equal to quickness per complex action and ejecting the empties is assumed part of the complex action. With single action revolvers you have to extract each empty case through the loading gate the cylinder axle is fixed in the frame. That led us to say that you unload empties at a # of rounds equal to quickness per complex action and then you must load the gun at the same rate. This leads to essentially twice as slow to reload. So I think the difference does make a difference in game terms. Much of the above may be house rules but if you think about it a single action revolver should make some difference in the game mechanics. mcb |
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