ok in games, do you just use the names of guns form the books or do you get inventive, differnet names for the same stats, like they do for cars in Rigger 3?

An example in RL would be Beretta firearms. This is a well known fire arm maker. In gun shops very similar is the Taurus. They look similar because Taurus was made under contract for a while in Brazil. but due to their poorer quality metalurgy they tend to be bigger, a little heavier, a lot more bulky and a little lower cost, but essentially the same gun.

Yeah, I do it quite often. One of my favorites is the more stylish Morrissey Sentinel (Savalette Guardian) for my bodyguard types.

we use standard names

We use the standard names but if a player or someone wanted to use a different name there wouldn't be any problems with that. It just hasn't been a big issue for us I guess.

As the Immortal Bard said, "An Ares Predator by any other name is still a fraggin' hand cannon"

I can't say I have much in the past, but a PC I'm working on carries a USP SOCOM pistol because he has been carrying one for several years in his old job. I also had an idea for a character who used to be in the PSF and stilll carries a Sig Sauer P226 in .357 SIG or a hotloaded .40 S&W (I prefer the .357 SIG, but haven't made up my mind) with extended mags because it puts large holes in people quickly. I originally planned on him carrying a larger .45 or 10mm caliber, but after consulting Raygun's rules, and specifically the advanced rules, I figured .357 SIG was just fine. (heh) I also like that particular P226 because it's the gun the Secret Service agents carry, and I like to think they know how to pick a gun.

There's not a lot I like about NAN 1 (or SoNA) about PCC, but the description of the loadout of PSF officers was pretty damn useful is telling what these guys carry in their trunks (think full-auto combat shotguns), especially when they're the only law for miles and giving this guy (who did work in the cities and wilderness) something with a higher chance of punching through armor was almost a necessity. Give him some extra mags with AP or EX-Explosive ammo, and it's all good.

My group uses the standard names, just to provide a point of common understanding when referencing the books. But I have a player whose "action decker" runs around with roller-skates and her guns Bang-Bang and Bang-Bang Jr.

In addition, if a gunsmith makes a custom piece and then decides to sell more of them, they get their own custom name. eg. The Finneas Gauge is a fun Sniper Rifle designed to bore a hole straight through a person's head.

Raygun's rules are interesting, but we find SR to be complicated enough that we didn't need to overhaul the entire Cannon Companion for realism.

Agreed. I think names are good for flavor, no need to make up all kinds of crazy stats. Just take a Colt American L36, change the name to Glock-22, blammo. Instant gun.

Right, not overhauling the CC or customizing guns but just putting differnt names on em. it gets real boring to have every freaking person toting a Predator II.

...For those rare 120mm L50 sniper rifles...

Not with FMJ ammunition.

Austere--The Finneas Gauge is used by a sniper of mine who has a thing for Medical History--Finneas Gage had a railroad spike shoved through his head and managed to live...It was just an odd play on words.

Going a little off track here, but I thought a few of you might want to know more about the differences between the Beretta 92FS and the Taurus 92B.

The Beretta 92FS and the Taurus 92B (formerly PT92) are indeed very similar pistols. In 1974, Beretta won a contract to supply the Brazilian military with their model 92 pistol. Part of the deal was that Beretta set up production in their Sao Paulo plant and train Brazilian labor to make the pistols. In 1980, the contract expired and Taurus bought the plant along with the tooling, as Beretta had no use for it.

While Beretta later modified the 92 to use a slide-mounted decocking safety arrangement (the hammer is automatically decocked when the safety is engaged), Taurus decided to stick with the original frame-mounted safety lever, then they modified it to include a decocking feature that could be operated independently of the safety, meaning that it was now possible to carry the pistol in the more American-style, 1911-type "cocked and locked" configuration. They later included a lever on the opposite side of the frame, making the safety/decocking control ambidextrous. This is the major distinguishing feature between the Beretta and Taurus pistols.

Beretta 92FS
Cartridge: 9mm Parabellum
Capacity: 15 rounds
Sights: Fixed 3-dot
Action: Double/Single
Safety: Slide-mounted decocking safety
Weight (unloaded/loaded): 2.0/2.375 lbs (0.9/1.07 kg)
Length: 8.5" (217mm)
Width: 1.5" (38mm)
Height: 5.39" (137mm)

Taurus 92B
Cartridge: 9mm Parabellum
Capacity: 15 rounds
Sights: Fixed 3-dot
Action: Double/Single
Safety: Frame-mounted safety/decocker
Weight (unloaded/loaded): 2.125/2.5 lbs (0.96/1.13 kg)
Length: 8.5" (217mm)
Width: 1.606" (40.7mm)
Height: 5.543" (140mm)

In my experience, the difference between the two in terms of both bulk and performance is extremely marginal, nearly non-existent. I personally like the Taurus pistol a little better because of the safety arrangement and the fact that all Taurus products come with an unlimited lifetime repair warranty. However, Beretta offers many more variants and options with their pistols, at the demand of a name-brand premium price. The 96 Vertec is easily one of the best 40 S&W defensive pistols out there at the moment, IMO. Even if its safety lever is in a rather awkward place.

I do not think that "poorer quality metallurgy" is the real reason for the Taurus pistol being ever so slightly bigger and bulkier than the Beretta offering. Brazilian steel is well known for its quality, and the Beretta-made pistols have been known to have metallurgical problems of their own (causing a rash of broken locking blocks and slides in the 1980s). Probably the most noticeable difference between pistols is the circumference of their grips. This is due to the type of plastic grip panels each pistol uses. Beretta's grips are more streamlined and it appears more thought has been put into their comfort. The Taurus grips are blockier and cannot be interchanged with Beretta grips without modification due to the safety arrangement (though it might be possible to use Beretta's 92 "Stock" model grips on a Taurus 92B pistol).

The 2mm increase in width and 3mm increase in height on the part of the Taurus pistol is due to the different safety arrangement (the widest point on the Taurus gun) and a slightly larger bumper pad on the magazine. The 0.125-pound difference in weight is at least partially due to a difference in machining operations compared to the Beretta (this is also one thing that makes the Taurus pistols less expensive). This can be witnessed by the difference in appearance between the trigger guards of the two pistols. Otherwise, they are dimensionally identical.

Anyway, to go back on topic, I have several real-life pistols on my website that are nearly identical in terms of Shadowrun's rules. If you want to use a given canon firearm's stats and call it something else, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. Calling everything Ares Predator or Colt Manhunter gets old after a while. In fact, that was probably the impetus for the development of my site.

I know you hear it all the time but your site is a game saver. For me at least. Most times I design a character around the guns he carries and it gets mighty lame after a while when all my mercs carry the Browning and all my sams carry a Pred model. Thanks again.

No prob. Glad it works for you.

Hi there

Okay, we all know not EVERY char carries a pred, but some do...
now, are there any sams around here carrying a submachinegun? like an old-fashioned, smartlink-II-upgraded Ingram? with silencer for superior firepower at low noise? no one? =

I rarely make samurai characters anymore, so I usually get a Browning Ultra-Power. But for guns, I generally use the same names. For cars, however, I check out the "similar models" names in R3 or whatever book has them and pick one of those I like. I'd also have no problem a player who wanted to change up the names as long as they kept the basic stats.

The Abstruse One

Dude, forget the Ingram, how about just an old school Tec-9 or an Uzi?

Then it's not "exactly" the same, is it?

You know, that, and the SCK has an integral smartlink.

The point of the thread was that names don't mean squat - except for a sense of personal style. Even if the Ingram Warrior 10 and SCK 100 were *totally* identical it matters to my Sammie that he's carrying the best SMG in the world...

Hell, we all have irrational brand loyalty (I use a single brand of grooming products, I always buy Nike trainers and Oakley sunglasses - because in each case a quck test will show that the quality is consistent and the product will serve me through its life - I already know what to expect), sure, if someone recommends something I'll try it but it has to have show it's better than the current favourite in both short-term and long-term tests.

I just like to apply something similar in game...

I've re-named a load of guns in the Character Generator DAT files for use in London-based games - IWS weapons mainly, with Bond & Carrington etc. thrown in for good measure.

I am also inspired by the vehicles - I've always been a fan of the MAD MAX series of films, and have an irrational desire to load up a kick-ass road warrior physad with a cut-down coach gun and a Knight Errant modified Mustang - the alternative to the Lone Star 3220 turbo...

all the FASA names are arbitrary anyway. some of the top firearms manufacturers like Glock and SIG aren't there at all.

shin chuo kogyo doesn't exist and was acquired by electronics corp Minebea in 1975 who make a few weapons for the SDF only, and the 100 doesn't follow their weapons naming system at all (made in 2000? because 100th year of Heisei would be 2089).
http://www.minebea.co.jp/english/company/a...ry/history.html

basically all the guns cost about the same and have the same damage and range so it comes down to concealability and that stat is soo messed up you can't take it seriously. Shadowrun is dead anyway, I'm thinking of just starting up a game of Spycraft pretty soon, they have good firearms rules too.

Otomik just likes to troll a little. You get over it. Let him tell you about the LD20.

sorry, that was impolite to just throw that out but i keep looking at the new books that come out and i don't think they compare to the older stuff. but hey the old immortal elf bug shaman and countless rocknroll band-themed adventures wasn't that great either, maybe it's just me.

i'm also pissed they got rid of the lounge here.
LD20?

The blanking Jew gun, my friend. And your bitter heart is not alone on the Lounge.

However, Dragons, SotA, and even SoNA seem to me better than NAGtNA, NAN1&2 and TT in terms of usability.

otomik, you'll get no disagreement from me about the abject stupidity of so much that is canon, but Spycraft? It's an interesting game that goes for a very specific theme, but as a general system, I really have to question the sanity of guys who wrote an entire guide to modern firearms and then made every single gun do either 2d6 or 2d8 damage.

Almost on topic: There's no Mateba auto revolver , so it could be an alternate name for a Ruger Super Warhawk. Of course Matebas are double action. The real-world price of about 1500 Euros (before smartlinks, etc) should balance it out.

What does double action have to do with anything? Almost every modern revolver is made with a double action trigger.

Real world Matebas cost that much because they're high precision weapons and supposedly very accurate with very low recoil.

I've got a, uhh, slight problem with the way d20 Spycraft does weapons, even if it's somewhat better than d20 Modern in that respect. I've got some problems with the game in general, most of which you can find in this thread.