Brand name firearms, do you play around with them? Options

[Snow_Fox]

ok in games, do you just use the names of guns form the books or do you get inventive, differnet names for the same stats, like they do for cars in Rigger 3?

An example in RL would be Beretta firearms. This is a well known fire arm maker. In gun shops very similar is the Taurus. They look similar because Taurus was made under contract for a while in Brazil. but due to their poorer quality metalurgy they tend to be bigger, a little heavier, a lot more bulky and a little lower cost, but essentially the same gun.

[A Clockwork Lime]

Yeah, I do it quite often. One of my favorites is the more stylish Morrissey Sentinel (Savalette Guardian) for my bodyguard types.

[RedmondLarry]

we use standard names

[Connor]

We use the standard names but if a player or someone wanted to use a different name there wouldn't be any problems with that. It just hasn't been a big issue for us I guess.

[The Grifter]

As the Immortal Bard said, "An Ares Predator by any other name is still a fraggin' hand cannon"

[Luke Hardison]

[The Grifter]

;)

[Snow_Fox]

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

I can't say I have much in the past, but a PC I'm working on carries a USP SOCOM pistol because he has been carrying one for several years in his old job. I also had an idea for a character who used to be in the PSF and stilll carries a Sig Sauer P226 in .357 SIG or a hotloaded .40 S&W (I prefer the .357 SIG, but haven't made up my mind) with extended mags because it puts large holes in people quickly. I originally planned on him carrying a larger .45 or 10mm caliber, but after consulting Raygun's rules, and specifically the advanced rules, I figured .357 SIG was just fine. (heh) I also like that particular P226 because it's the gun the Secret Service agents carry, and I like to think they know how to pick a gun.

There's not a lot I like about NAN 1 (or SoNA) about PCC, but the description of the loadout of PSF officers was pretty damn useful is telling what these guys carry in their trunks (think full-auto combat shotguns), especially when they're the only law for miles and giving this guy (who did work in the cities and wilderness) something with a higher chance of punching through armor was almost a necessity. Give him some extra mags with AP or EX-Explosive ammo, and it's all good.

[BishopMcQ]

My group uses the standard names, just to provide a point of common understanding when referencing the books. But I have a player whose "action decker" runs around with roller-skates and her guns Bang-Bang and Bang-Bang Jr.

In addition, if a gunsmith makes a custom piece and then decides to sell more of them, they get their own custom name. eg. The Finneas Gauge is a fun Sniper Rifle designed to bore a hole straight through a person's head.

Raygun's rules are interesting, but we find SR to be complicated enough that we didn't need to overhaul the entire Cannon Companion for realism.

[The Grifter]

Agreed. I think names are good for flavor, no need to make up all kinds of crazy stats. Just take a Colt American L36, change the name to Glock-22, blammo. Instant gun.

[Snow_Fox]

Right, not overhauling the CC or customizing guns but just putting differnt names on em. it gets real boring to have every freaking person toting a Predator II.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[toturi]

[Austere Emancipa...]

...For those rare 120mm L50 sniper rifles...

[toturi]

[Austere Emancipa...]

Not with FMJ ammunition. :grinbig:

[BishopMcQ]

Austere--The Finneas Gauge is used by a sniper of mine who has a thing for Medical History--Finneas Gage had a railroad spike shoved through his head and managed to live...It was just an odd play on words.

[lodestar]

[Raygun]

Going a little off track here, but I thought a few of you might want to know more about the differences between the Beretta 92FS and the Taurus 92B.

The Beretta 92FS and the Taurus 92B (formerly PT92) are indeed very similar pistols. In 1974, Beretta won a contract to supply the Brazilian military with their model 92 pistol. Part of the deal was that Beretta set up production in their Sao Paulo plant and train Brazilian labor to make the pistols. In 1980, the contract expired and Taurus bought the plant along with the tooling, as Beretta had no use for it.

While Beretta later modified the 92 to use a slide-mounted decocking safety arrangement (the hammer is automatically decocked when the safety is engaged), Taurus decided to stick with the original frame-mounted safety lever, then they modified it to include a decocking feature that could be operated independently of the safety, meaning that it was now possible to carry the pistol in the more American-style, 1911-type "cocked and locked" configuration. They later included a lever on the opposite side of the frame, making the safety/decocking control ambidextrous. This is the major distinguishing feature between the Beretta and Taurus pistols.

Beretta 92FS
Cartridge: 9mm Parabellum
Capacity: 15 rounds
Sights: Fixed 3-dot
Action: Double/Single
Safety: Slide-mounted decocking safety
Weight (unloaded/loaded): 2.0/2.375 lbs (0.9/1.07 kg)
Length: 8.5" (217mm)
Width: 1.5" (38mm)
Height: 5.39" (137mm)

Taurus 92B
Cartridge: 9mm Parabellum
Capacity: 15 rounds
Sights: Fixed 3-dot
Action: Double/Single
Safety: Frame-mounted safety/decocker
Weight (unloaded/loaded): 2.125/2.5 lbs (0.96/1.13 kg)
Length: 8.5" (217mm)
Width: 1.606" (40.7mm)
Height: 5.543" (140mm)

In my experience, the difference between the two in terms of both bulk and performance is extremely marginal, nearly non-existent. I personally like the Taurus pistol a little better because of the safety arrangement and the fact that all Taurus products come with an unlimited lifetime repair warranty. However, Beretta offers many more variants and options with their pistols, at the demand of a name-brand premium price. The 96 Vertec is easily one of the best 40 S&W defensive pistols out there at the moment, IMO. Even if its safety lever is in a rather awkward place.

I do not think that "poorer quality metallurgy" is the real reason for the Taurus pistol being ever so slightly bigger and bulkier than the Beretta offering. Brazilian steel is well known for its quality, and the Beretta-made pistols have been known to have metallurgical problems of their own (causing a rash of broken locking blocks and slides in the 1980s). Probably the most noticeable difference between pistols is the circumference of their grips. This is due to the type of plastic grip panels each pistol uses. Beretta's grips are more streamlined and it appears more thought has been put into their comfort. The Taurus grips are blockier and cannot be interchanged with Beretta grips without modification due to the safety arrangement (though it might be possible to use Beretta's 92 "Stock" model grips on a Taurus 92B pistol).

The 2mm increase in width and 3mm increase in height on the part of the Taurus pistol is due to the different safety arrangement (the widest point on the Taurus gun) and a slightly larger bumper pad on the magazine. The 0.125-pound difference in weight is at least partially due to a difference in machining operations compared to the Beretta (this is also one thing that makes the Taurus pistols less expensive). This can be witnessed by the difference in appearance between the trigger guards of the two pistols. Otherwise, they are dimensionally identical.

Anyway, to go back on topic, I have several real-life pistols on my website that are nearly identical in terms of Shadowrun's rules. If you want to use a given canon firearm's stats and call it something else, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. Calling everything Ares Predator or Colt Manhunter gets old after a while. In fact, that was probably the impetus for the development of my site.

[kevyn668]

I know you hear it all the time but your site is a game saver. For me at least. Most times I design a character around the guns he carries and it gets mighty lame after a while when all my mercs carry the Browning and all my sams carry a Pred model. Thanks again. :)

[Raygun]

No prob. Glad it works for you. :)

[Arethusa]

[Alania]

Hi there

Okay, we all know not EVERY char carries a pred, but some do...
now, are there any sams around here carrying a submachinegun? like an old-fashioned, smartlink-II-upgraded Ingram? with silencer for superior firepower at low noise? no one? ;)=

[Abstruse]

I rarely make samurai characters anymore, so I usually get a Browning Ultra-Power. But for guns, I generally use the same names. For cars, however, I check out the "similar models" names in R3 or whatever book has them and pick one of those I like. I'd also have no problem a player who wanted to change up the names as long as they kept the basic stats.

The Abstruse One