On combat...the dodge Options

[A Clockwork Lime]

[TinkerGnome]

If you wanted to do something like the "one dodge per round" thing, I think using the same mechanic is a mistake. Do a straight TN mod based on successes. Ie, Bob the sammy rolls 4 dice of CP to dodge (TN 4 + wound modifiers). He gets 2 successes. For the rest of the turn, Bob has a +2 TN modifier to be hit against anything he is aware of as he moves erraticly, tryin gto avoid fire. Reduce it by 1 for every 3 rounds in a burst/full auto. In Eyeless Blond's example, Player A would be under a +4 penalty to hit player B and a +1 penalty would apply in the reverse.

Seems less unwieldly to me.

[Moon-Hawk]

I like that idea.
As I said before regarding Fahr's rolling method, this sort of thing will probably lead to slightly longer firefights, but the dice rolling of said fights should go slightly quicker (as was pointed out by Farh), all-in-all yielding a more cinematic feel. What I like about this solution is that you don't have to keep track of what was rolled on each die, since dodge TN's will change due to burst fire. This accounts for that. Very cool.
I don't plan to use it, but I like it.

[Eyeless Blond]

Example of my previous idea in action. :

Same two guys: Runner A and Guard B. A has an initiative of 32; B has an init of 8. They've settled in for a bit of a haul; each is stationary (-1) and behind his own low barricade (+4), firing at the other at Short Range (TN 4+4-1=7). Both A and B have all 8 combat pool allocated to dodging, and both get the same numbers: 08 07 05 04 03 02 02 01 .

A attacks first. He fires off two bursts at B. With distance mods, Smartgun link, recoil comp 4 and everything he rolls six dice against a TN of 5: 09 05 05 03 02 01, and then another six against TN 7: 14 05 05 04 03 03. Three successes for the first, one for the second. B ducks hurriedly behind the barricade each time, scoring three successes in his first (TN 5) didge test, and two in the second (TN 6). He fires back, six dice twice against TN 7, then 9 (no Smartlink for this poor bastard): 09 05 04 03 02 01, then 05 04 04 03 02 01. A dodges the first burst easily; the second shot goes wide.

Now A's reflexes really come into play. During the second, third, and fourth pass he makes six more bursts than B did: 05 04 03 02 02 01 ; 05 05 05 05 04 03 ; 05 05 04 01 01 01 ; 13 05 04 03 01 01 ; 15 10 04 03 02 01 ; 05 05 04 03 02 01, ending in 1 success, then 0, 1, 1, 2. The guard, using the same dodge dice that he rolled at the beginninf of the Turn, dodges the first two bursts, but can't get away from the third and thr fourth, and must resist two 11S wounds. Merry Christmas, ya filthy animal. :P


Analysis: Notice how much longer (in Combat Turns) gun battles can take with this rule. However, since the Dodge Test is already done for everone at the beginning of the Turn it makes a few bits of combat easier.

[Eyeless Blond]

[Fahr]

in my opinion it shouldn't matter how many people are shooting at you... If I am dodgeing, I am making it harder for anyone who shoots at me to hit me by my eratic movements and such. if ten people shoot at me, they already have a statistically better changce of hitting me than one guy shooting at me. they are that much more likely to hit me by virtue of the number of attempts. why make this worse by adding penalties on top of that.

It is my opinion that the canon system penalizes the target unnessesarily.

as for FA and burst, you keep the original dice and compare with the modified dodge roll, so if 10 guys are shooting at me in FA, than they are still more likely to hit me by virtue of the number of attacks.

-Mike R.

[Arethusa]

I find the idea of a system that does dodging ahead of time fairly interesting, though I'm not sure I'd necessarily run with it.

Should point out, however, that since the canon system deals with bursts as essentially single shots with more damage and harder chances of hitting, making it easier to hit per three rounds on the dodge test helps this situation and doesn't penalize the target unfairly.

[gknoy]

[RedmondLarry]

If you make them roll Dodge at the beginning of the round, do you have a way to take modifiers into account (wounds, bursts, obstacles, grenade dodging)? Would this force you to write down the die rolls?

[Arethusa]

It would force you to. If you went with rolling beforehand, the aforementioned dice against TN 4 is a much simpler solution, and a more balanced one.

[gknoy]

Eyeless Blonde - I jsut reread your extended example. I think I see what you're saying...

Please correct me if i'm wrong:

Instead of using the Successes (vs TN 4) for the entire round, you use the same ROLLS each round, and compare those numbers each time with the TN for dodging? (including modifed TNs for burst fire, etc) That seems like a good idea;

[Caine Hazen]

How about just having them declare the number of dice they want to use for the round to dodge...get em outta the combat pool, then if they don't use em they're lost, but nothing is rolled before the shotting starts. A reduced comat pool that woudl represent the amount of jinkin that the charachter does.

[Fahr]

I make them write the numbers down, so I can apply different modifiers based on whos shooting them.

so the original rolls are the same but if they get hit, subsequent tn go up, FA makes it go up and so on, they just never roll the dice again. I also let them use karma to re-roll, but they gotta roll all the dodge again, making it a risky proposal.

-Mike R.

[RedmondLarry]

My players would like the house rule you are suggesting for dodging. They'd know ahead of time whether they could move through an area of suppressive fire without taking damage. :(

[blakkie]

[Fahr]

*heh* when I started using this rule I didn't have the books that covered suppresive fire...

an easy solution to that would be making them allocate new pool if they choose to move into suppressive fire... but that breaks the simplicity... so maybe not... hmm... hadn't considered suppressive fire at all...

but wait, how exactly does suppressive fire normally work... cause the more I think about this it would likely make suppressive fire something you avoided more often, actually making it work more like, well... suppressive fire, i.e. making people choose not to go into the line of fire.... I could be wrong, I'll have to re-read that section and come up with something...

-Mike R.

[Eyeless Blond]

[gknoy]

If successive dodge attempts have a higher TN, (maybe my +1 or +2?), that could very well be a very good workaround. I'll keep runnign it in a canon manner, tho, since (a) I am a n00b GM, and (b) my players are new. Hehe.