 This is Seattle, Atmospheric? Maybe. |
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 Aug 16 2005, 11:03 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500  |
Um....
Um... :eek: Strange Man Some days, even die-hard liberals have reasons to cheer on the conservatives. :| Yeah. It's not illegal. Indeed, there seem to be...ranches that specialize in it. Openly. :( I wonder if that survived the 65 years between now and SR4. :eek: |
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Aug 16 2005, 11:09 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
It's survived this long, 65 years is just a tick of the universal second hand. Less even.
Sexual urges are incredibly powerfull, more so when they are fetishised. The only thing that will change are the methods of this sort of thing. It'll be mainstreamed, consumerised. BTL chips, bars and clubs will specialise in it, etc. |
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Aug 16 2005, 11:10 PM
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#3
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
What ... the ... FUCK ... is wrong with these people? Jeez. Why can't they go to prostitutes, like all decent people do? Bah. Fucked up idiots.
I read the initial story, but I thought this had been a loner, a freak who had his way with a stallion and, well, paid for that. But that there's an industry to that ... For every disgusting act one can make up, there're people who will pay for it. As for SR ... well, I would guess this is even more extreme, with genetics, biosculpturing and all kinds of bodymodding possible. Have your wife refitted to ... ah, I won't even think of the possibilities. |
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Aug 16 2005, 11:11 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
I had to double check the site to make sure it wasn't a joke.
Okay, Seattle really is the city where you can buy everything in the SR universe... |
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Aug 17 2005, 01:12 AM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
I meant if it would go 65 years without being declared illegal. :) Personally, I suspect that Seattle would be more conservative than Washington is now, as the conservative NAN is all around. So, I suspect activity with our furry friends would quickly become illegal. Y'see, it violates nature, and the totems have indicated that no, they do not consent. :P |
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Aug 17 2005, 02:34 AM
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#6
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Beastality is legal in Texas, too. They hate gays, but it's okay to fuck a dog. At least they have principles (albeit pretty messed up principles). |
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Aug 17 2005, 03:39 AM
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#7
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
There's no good reason for it to be illegal if it isn't harming the animal.
(That said, I still don't know the answer to the obligatory "WTF?") ~J |
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Aug 17 2005, 06:38 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
I suspect the nan would have little influence. It's my sense, although I could be wrong, that between now and SR times, the law becomes more hands off... not more hands on... seems like anything is available if you can pay the cred. And if it brings the critter pleasure, I can't imagine the totem objecting, unless you give the cow roofies and wait until it passes out before you make your moove. |
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Aug 17 2005, 12:31 PM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
Well, that's the thing. We don't know if the cow takes pleasure in it.
The assumption would be, as the bovine did not come out and say "Do me, human, do me now"...That the bovine does not gain pleasure from your sexual activity upon it. |
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Aug 17 2005, 12:47 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 284 Joined: 16-June 05 Member No.: 7,450 |
You also have to understand that by then, those loveable furry critters will be as sentiant as you, sometimes. I mean, a shape-shifter still knows everything around them when they're in their animal form. And even though they're not considered legal, that doesn't mean you won't have a few that use their 'talents' to make a person happy. ^.^
IMO...I see nothing wrong with it. |
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Aug 17 2005, 01:05 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
Sense Emotion/Thought magics could settle it for us... Cows aside for the moment, male horses can choose to cooperate with insertion and choose to thrust or not. For the sake of discussion. And to dovetail with what Kagetenshi was saying, *if* the animal isn't "harmed" by it, there is no good reason to outlaw it... How is "throwing a hot dog down a hallway," (in referrence to our lucky (unlucky?) bovine) any more harmful than say milking, or slaughter for steak and hamburgers? Or the glue and dog food factory in the case of the horse? If I were the cow I think my choice would be easy. Plus it's like jumping up the ladder big time. Forget the sploosers in highschool getting with the cheerleaders... this is waaaaay bigger then that. As a dog, it would be a red letter day, for me, anyway. I'd be bragging to all my doggie pals that I made it with a human (or even better, an elf) chick. To bring this into a little more concrete SR arena, I pose that this behavior will become MORE mainstream, and "accepted." With technology, biotech advancements, magic, and corp extraterritoriality, not to mention protection of darkness in the "shadows," "alternative sexual proclivities" (dunno any more pc way to describe horse humping) will only see further activity. On a completely unrelated note, has anybody seen subrosa post lately? |
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Aug 17 2005, 02:06 PM
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#12
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
I suspect a horse or cow really wouldn't notice, even if you get a little rough. It's the smaller animals I'd worry a bit more about.
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Aug 17 2005, 02:34 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
that's why you wrap the hamster in duct tape first... so it doesn't explode. |
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Aug 18 2005, 01:07 AM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 68 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,738 |
Bestiality isn't legal in TX, unless something has changed recently. Even were it legal,it is not "approved". In most states this is illegal.
For clarification "furries" refers to fetishers who like having sex while in animal costumes, manytimes cartoonized animals. The difference in a fetish and a 'WTF' moment isn't as big as you might think. Someone into bestiality got there somehow, and probably gradually. It's unhealthy and to me weird, but so are alot of things. (mandatory don't classify them as freaks, they are real humans just with problems plug) The animal is in capable giving consent, and for most animals, is incapable of understanding what is being done for them. This is similar to why we don't have sex with children. As a kids body matures, it might not cause them harm, but that doesn't make it ok. What will all this look like in SR? Probably your late night trid shows. |
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Aug 18 2005, 01:47 AM
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#15
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
It is legal to kill and eat nonhuman animals but it isn't legal to do the same to human children, so the analogy isn't aproperiate unless you would support changing the both laws so that they are more complimentry.
Of course, I'm sure the authorities won't complain if a woman sells her baby to a family of ghouls in 2064, so that analogy my be valid in Shadowrun. |
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Aug 18 2005, 03:48 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
- nobody's equating bestiality with the "furries" phenomena. Furry as it has been used in this context is a descriprition of the animals coat. - there are plenty of things that if they were legal would not be "approved." such as worshipping soda machines. - I know this is just semantics, but I would say "maladaptive" before "unhealthy." I'd aggree with the point about getting to a fetish gradually though, usually. Orgasm is one of the most powerful reinforcers of human behavior, and that's not likely to change in the sixth world, if it occurs within the context of certain environmental characteristics, it becomes associated with them. Another of the origins of fetishes is trauma, often times people compartmentalise an aspect of their personality and cut it off from themselves. They can only feel sexual (for example) in the presence of certain factors. |
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Aug 18 2005, 12:01 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 284 Joined: 16-June 05 Member No.: 7,450 |
To clarify, I am a furry and I detest most, if not all, fursuits. Not all of us in the community think and act like people think we do. And you'd be surprised at the number of furs that consider bestiality vulger and inappropriate. Just because we act and think like animals sometimes does not mean we have sex with them.
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Aug 18 2005, 01:58 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
I don't think anyone's said anything directly to degrade the furry community, or at least that's not been the intent. If anything the difference between furries and beastialists has been stressed here, so there's no need to feel defensive. Furry's aren't the only segment of society to be stereotyped, btw... take gamers for example. This thread could probably go in a more SR direction before it gets locked. (I'm the last person to try to limit disscussion though, so everybody be sure to say your piece.) |
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Aug 18 2005, 02:01 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 404 Joined: 22-June 05 From: Canada eh! Member No.: 7,455 |
If you are a furry gamer ... you are a deviant. :grinbig:
Question.... do people that like furries, prefer hairy people? *shiver* |
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Aug 18 2005, 03:10 PM
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#20
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Arguable for some animals.
In cases where the animal responds with physical arousal I'd call that fairly solid demonstration of as much understanding as the animal is capable of.
The larger issue is power differences, not kids not understanding what's happening. Young pubescent individuals can understand sex just fine (though obviously not all do).
Again, there are other reasons for this other than assuming total ignorance.
But you do, if you have sex at all. Or did you mean non-human animals? ~J |
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Aug 19 2005, 05:48 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Butte County, CA Member No.: 3,836 |
Heh, I think anthropormorphic dragons are sexy. "Furry' is a broad term. There's a big difference between having fantasies about sex with a drawing-come-to-life (or actually having sex with one for that matter) and wanting to have sex with a mocked-up fursuit. Nothing against those who like it, just not my thing. Y'know we had a CSI Epsiode Furry Discussion Though I don't think it touched on bestiality. My opinion on bestiality: Animals (not counting exceptional ones with a genuine spiritual connection) aren't that smart so they're just glorified sex toys. No matter how well-trained they are. Give me an intelligent partner any day to an animated blow-up doll. (Again, not dissing emotional relationships with pets with sex thrown in, just those wiith physical gratification as the sole priority).
ShadowFurry I just love bringing up this site :) Hey, would this be a good place to bring up therianthropes? They're not Shamans with a separate Totem, think more along the lines of very low mana Physical Adepts. They simply are who they are. |
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Aug 19 2005, 06:25 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 7-December 04 Member No.: 6,873 |
That article is old hat, I went to the forum the guy who died posted on before he died.
The people are weird, but I am not about to judge someone for their sexual kink. |
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Aug 19 2005, 06:51 AM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
and just to prevent any misunderstandings, saying someone is deviant is *not* a value judgement. it's just a statistical variation evaluation. Kagetenshi is spot on in his reservations. For more information, see also: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/L/levine_harmful.html a controversial book, agree with it or not, it's thought provoking. |
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Aug 19 2005, 07:21 AM
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#24
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Legally,non-human animals can't give consent. However, this is a moot point becacuse, legally, animals can't give anything. To the law, they are property. They have no more rights than a microwave oven or a black person in the pre-Civil War American South. While they can't give consent themselves, their owners can certainly give consentfor them. To further the children analogy, I can pay Mrs. Spidero $5,000 to have her prizingwinning stalion breed my mare. However, if I pay Mrs Spidero $5000 to have her award-winning son breed my daughter, we would both probably be arrested. The comparison has no legal merit. I'll leave the arguement over actual merit to someone else for now. The reason that bestiality is illegal in most jurisdictions is the same reason that buggery was illegal in most jurisdictions untill recently. It is about enforcing moral standards. There is a current trend to strike down these laws as violating basic human rights. In most civilized countries, lawmakers have no right to tell consenting adults which orafices they may or may not use. By the same legal reasoning, bestiality laws should be struck down. Only by creating a new legal theory can one justify them. Creating new legal theories is something courts hate doing. Smacking down judges who try to create new legal theories is something appelate courts love doing. Actually, I would expect animal rights activists to argue that animals do have the ability to consent to sex. It is a step closer to true human-nonhuman equality. Giving nonhuman animals completely equal rights and responsibilities is something animal rights activists should strive for. In Shadowrun, the issue is even stranger. Today, tere are occasional instances of dolphins attempting to rape human swimmers. Most of these are thwated by swimsuits. In 2064, however, critters have new and more devious ways to sexually prey of metahumans. The worst of these tools are the mind control powers, of course. I must wonder if a person compelled to orally pleasure a blackberry cat can be held responsible for his or her actions. This is a case where the cat is in complete control of the metahuman's actions. If the cat were a metahuman it would be guilty of sexual assualt. However, being a cat it can't be guilty of anything. It is a legal grey area. Shapeshifters confuse the issue even more. Is it bestialityif you don't know that the person you are having sex with is a non-metahuman animal? What about other non-nonhuman sentients such as centaurs and storm dolphins? It is a conundrum.
There are such things as plants but that is a completely different paraphillia. |
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Aug 19 2005, 07:45 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
legality in sr is also far different then it is in our current day and age... the analogy of parents studding out kids might have different implications if it occurs on extraterritorial property, and who among the involved parties have SINs |
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