 The Idiot's Guide To The Matrix Thread, Support for the Matrix-challenged |
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 Aug 28 2003, 06:03 AM
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#101
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 91 Joined: 19-January 03 From: Near Boston Mass. Member No.: 3,927  |
I have a question. Is there no way to deceive Probe IC? Fake a password and the Probe wont monitor you. I can't remember anything saying the Probe is immune to it. I think all White ice is deceivable. |
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Aug 28 2003, 08:19 AM
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#102
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 4-August 03 From: Amidst the ruins of Silicon Valley. Member No.: 5,242 |
A few small things I thought we might clear up... First, can Black IC inflict physical overdamage if it gets a sufficient number of successes? If not, then any decker could just have a trauma damper installed and manage to survive at least one nasty hit... Second, have we settled on whether or not an attack program is a "weapon" or not? From the look of things with the rest of the offensive programs, it's fairly clear that the standard Matrix operational utility schtick of "Security rating minus particular program equals TN" doesn't apply. Without that detail, and with this passage on p. 226 of the SR3 main book...
... it seems fairly obvious that Computer skill has nothing to do with the viral attack program you're trying to hit your opponent with. |
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Aug 28 2003, 08:30 AM
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#103
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
kurukami, your just asking for a flamewar :)
edit: way to harsh the first one so here is a new... anyways, why should they suddenly change everything we know about combat just for the matrix? any other attack in sr is a test of skill vs targetnumber that scales the effect of the weapon. i read nothing in that text that anything have changed as the first thing that pops to mind when i read the word test is skill vs targetnumber... allso, never try to read the SR rules directly, they have a bad habbit of not being a duck even tho they both walk and quack like one... |
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Aug 28 2003, 08:55 AM
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#104
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
What hobgoblin means, and if you check back to the example, is that we've more or less decided it works like a weapon. There could just as easily be the opposite interpretation given the way the rules are written but this one at least stays to true to the general mechanic of "you roll Computer and the Utility facilitates the action" rather than the Utility does something by itself.
The only thing I can think off that apparently openly contradicts this interpretation is the fact that Dumb Frames can use Attack... Until someone mails FanPro and this gets an errata it's mostly up to the player and his GM to sort it out before the game begins and stick to that interpretation. |
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Aug 28 2003, 09:21 AM
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#105
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 214 Joined: 26-February 02 From: UK Member No.: 340 |
Well, they alredy have changed a lot about Combat specifically for the Matrix - e.g. only a Simple action is required, Parry is a Simple action you can do in preparation for an imminent attack etc. I do believe the rules were written so that you roll your Attack prog rating, not skill. I am not however saying I agree with this, I would have preferred it if the designers had kept cybercombat much more in line with regular combat to ease the learning curve - i.e. Complex action to attack, roll Computer Skill plus Hacking Pool, target may counter / dodge with Computer Skill and Hacking Pool or just Hacking Pool (depending upon whether you model cybercombat after Melee or Ranged combat). Oh well, unless they do a major errata which would more correctly be a revision, I think it will stay as is. The closest we may get is a FAQ answer clarifying what was menat by the original wording. |
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Aug 28 2003, 09:45 AM
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#106
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Note this is not really a change since it is a close parallel to Ranged Combat rules for attacks and dodges. The solution of course, at least until an errata or clarification comes down from FanPro, is for individual decker players to decide with their individual GMs before the game starts. As far as I'm concerned I will continue to use my interpretation of the rules in further examples on this thread, but I'll make sure I specify that it is an interpretation and subject to discussion. Same for the Damage Resistance Staging. Now back to our regular broadcast... I think we've gone over most of the major points regarding the decker in the previous run, so would anyone be interested in posting a decker for the Overwatch run? The target will be a small Yamatetsu reseach facility hidden away in Snohomish Seattle. |
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Aug 28 2003, 04:23 PM
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#107
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
whats your problem with packing a attack util into a dumb frame synner? the util uses its pilot rating in place of skill anyways, its just like stacking a weapon onto the drone...
as for combat requering a complex action, i dont think so. i read it as ranged combat, and the parry attack as basicly setting up the logics so that its harder to hit home with the code... |
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Aug 28 2003, 04:48 PM
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#108
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
hobgoblin - the problem is dumb frames don't have Pilot Ratings only smart frames and agents do...
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Aug 28 2003, 05:17 PM
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#109
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 4-August 03 From: Amidst the ruins of Silicon Valley. Member No.: 5,242 |
You can already sort of accomplish this within the existing Matrix rules. Annoyingly, though, it's not something that's in the main rules. Check out p. 122 in Matrix, under "Improvised Combat"...
But as for "changing everything we know"... the combat mechanic, or at least the way that damage is inflicted, varies massively throughout the system anyways. For example, with Combat spells, you either resist the spell entirely or you take the full (or more!) damage. You can't stage down that Deadly manabolt -- you can only completely resist it, which means that pretty much any non-mage will get toasted rolling their (perhaps) 6 Willpower dice and trying to get more successes than the mage with their Sorcery and Spell Pool. But I digress. My point is that the mechanic seems to vary throughout the SR system. |
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Aug 28 2003, 05:19 PM
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#110
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 4-August 03 From: Amidst the ruins of Silicon Valley. Member No.: 5,242 |
So, how about another example run? Shall we keep the old man with the cane as our sample decker?
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Aug 28 2003, 05:20 PM
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#111
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Another decker with a different Persona might be nice so we can explore different 'looks' for Utilities too.
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Aug 28 2003, 05:40 PM
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#112
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 19-March 03 Member No.: 4,292 |
[...]
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Aug 28 2003, 07:46 PM
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#113
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 4-August 03 From: Amidst the ruins of Silicon Valley. Member No.: 5,242 |
I've got a somewhat experienced decker that I've been using in a recent campaign. She's got a bit of Karma, and she's done some programming on her own. So, without further ado, I present to you Lady Cheng.
Race: Ork. Body 7; Quickness 4; Strength 4; Charisma 3; Intelligence 6 (+2) (from cerebral booster); Willpower 6. Cyberware: Math SPU 3, datajack, microscopic vision. Bioware: cerebral booster 2, mnemonic enhancer 3, trauma damper, enhanced articulation. Edges: cracker (Control tests), bonus attribute pt (Int). Skills: Computer 6 (Decking 7)*, Computer B/R 4(+1)*, Electronics 5, Electronics B/R 3(+1)*, etiquette (Matrix) 4. Knowledge skills:^* data archive familiarity 3, cyberterminal design 2, operational utility design 3, defensive utility design 2, programming suite design 3, offensive utility design 2, cyberterminal code design 3, special utility design 1, data brokerage 4. * indicates skills that can take advantage of the Task Pool ^ indicates skills that gain 1 pt from the mnemonic enhancer Hacking Pool: 8 (5 + Math SPU (3)) Initiative: 14+4d6 (Int 8, and including Response Increase 2, pure DNI, and hot ASIST) Cyberdeck: Renraku Kraftwerk-1: MPCP 8, Bod 5, Evasion 6, Masking 8, Sensors 5. Response increase-2, hardening 4, I/O 360, active memory 1350 (upgraded from 1000 base), storage memory 3000 (upgraded from 2000 base). Utilities in active memory: sleaze-5 (75 Mp), armor-4 (48 Mp), deception-6 (72 Mp), cloak-5 (75 Mp), decrypt-6 (72 Mp), relocate-6 (72), camo-4 (48 Mp), analyze-6 w/ sneak-2 (300 Mp), browse-6 w/ sneak-2 (100 Mp), evaluate-4 (32 Mp), read/write-6 (72 Mp), defuse-6 (72 Mp), scanner-4 (48 Mp), lock-on 3 (27 Mp), erosion-6 (blinder) w/ targetting (192 Mp), attack-6D w/ one-shot (45 Mp). - Total active memory used: 1344 Mp. In storage memory: all active utilities, plus validate-6 (144 Mp), commlink-6 (36 Mp), spoof-3 (27 Mp), attack-6S (144 Mp), medic-5 (100 Mp), purge-6 (72 Mp), sniffer-3 (27 Mp). - Total storage memory used: 1894 Mp. - Available storage space: 1106 Mp. Effective detection factor: (in masking mode) 9, +2 while using analyze or browse. Note: as having program options tends to modify only the size of a program and its cost, not its availability, all programs are effectively within the ratings which can be obtained by a starting decker. Persona appearance: an Asiatic female pirate with a devil-may care smile, clad in tunic, breeches, and boots, with a silk scarf holding back her hair and a naval greatcoat shrouding her shoulders. What looks like the grip of a wheel-lock pistol sticks out of the sash she uses for a belt. |
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Aug 29 2003, 12:00 AM
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#114
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
Maybe this is irrealvent or just fluff getting in the way but i remember reading in target matrix about a decker (the one who hates Otaku, and use's snot for his programs) getting jumped by a guy with real highend prog's but not knowing what to do with them.
Now if i understand correctly that seems (to me at least) to sugest that it's the deckers skill that gets things done not the hard ware just like with sammies. ie unless yor going up against harden targets any pistol in the hands of a good enough user will nail the target. Just like the story in target matrix say's [EDIT] just remembered his name Slamm-o!! |
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Aug 29 2003, 01:54 PM
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#115
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hey synner, about that packing a attack util into the dumb frame (wonder why it slipped bast me that dumb frames dont have pilot ratings) i see your point now. why anyone would use a dumb frame anyways is beyond me with that reread as the only thing that they are useful for are decoys :)
if it enabled the decker to use a free action to trigger the utility in there then i may understand but as it takes a simple action anyways to attack i give up trying to reason the idea. hmm, it does protect the weapon (kinda) from tar IC tho as i dont think tar can eat utils packed into a frame (can it eat a frame?)... |
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Aug 29 2003, 02:53 PM
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#116
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Kurukumi - looks good except I'd prefer it if you stick with the beginning decker's Rating 6 / Availability 8 cap (exception made for the Kraftwerk). This will make it easier for any Matrix novices reading this to compare with their own characters. (Just edit the character rather than reposting).
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Aug 29 2003, 03:06 PM
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#117
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
I'd kind of like to see it done with the CMT-Avatar since that's the worst case scenario for starting allowances (and one I've been under before). Having that nice low detection factor should make things more interesting, at least (DF 8, I think, in masking mode). Of course, I'd love to see it done with a starting Otaku, too. |
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Aug 29 2003, 04:40 PM
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#118
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 4-August 03 From: Amidst the ruins of Silicon Valley. Member No.: 5,242 |
OK, editting now... I presume the skills, bioware, and whatnot are OK other than toning the deck down? |
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Aug 29 2003, 04:46 PM
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#119
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Use the same restrictions Rating 6 / Availability 8, please.
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Aug 29 2003, 05:04 PM
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#120
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 4-August 03 From: Amidst the ruins of Silicon Valley. Member No.: 5,242 |
Not a problem. I just checked M&M, and all of them fall into the appropriate range.
... and I've now updated and annotated the original post. :) |
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Aug 30 2003, 03:42 PM
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#121
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Target Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 18-August 03 From: Manchester, UK Member No.: 5,515 |
When are you guys planning on getting this run underway coz I am looking forward to seeing some stuff....
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Aug 30 2003, 05:50 PM
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#122
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
I've got a busy weekend planned so I expect I can kick off hostilities on Monday.
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Aug 30 2003, 06:06 PM
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#123
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 4-August 03 From: Amidst the ruins of Silicon Valley. Member No.: 5,242 |
*busily overclocks his cyberdeck so as to kick major IC boo-tay come Monday* 8)
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Aug 31 2003, 08:29 PM
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#124
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 4-August 03 From: Amidst the ruins of Silicon Valley. Member No.: 5,242 |
*bump so that when Synner comes back on Monday the thread won't be buried on page 3*
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Sep 1 2003, 02:01 AM
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#125
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 29-August 03 Member No.: 5,553 |
If I could throw a question out to you guys...
Does anyone have any good ideas for handling program allocation between Active Memory and Storage? Standard method seems to be a list of utilities with the player putting checks next to the ones that are in Active Memory. Doing math on the fly can be a real mood breaker... Any suggestions, anyone? |
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