 Improvised Astral Weapons, Trolls who hit spirits with people |
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 May 13 2005, 06:52 PM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 176 Joined: 8-March 05 Member No.: 7,146  |
And why not? A dual natured creature can bash a spirit, so a dual natured bacteria should be able to do the same. Even if it is living in a cultrue tube being swung by a mundane. Its a conspiricy I tell you. Wizard: "No mundane, it is time for the grown ups to work, now go over there and play with your little toys." Eather that or ballance. Give the mages some where to shine. Of corse it is of limited effect. "Wow guys, did you see me kick that spirit's ass? It was so cool! . . . No? Well, I did, you should be glad I diden't let it manifest, you would be in trouble if it had. . . Really. . . Sometimes a Mage's body will snore when they project. . .Honest!" |
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May 13 2005, 07:06 PM
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#27
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Must double check the book when I get home, but can you train a Devilrat?
Make a Pied Piper type Troll adepts, with the animal kinship abilities and have it trained. Then again, of you cna train the devil rat, why not just have it attack the spirits instead of swinging it? |
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May 13 2005, 07:10 PM
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#28
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Critter training isn't in any of the current books. However, they are somewhat intelligent (2 IIRC) and could probably understand and follow basic commands if you could find a way to make them want to listen to you. If you can get a mage to cast a few proper manipulation spells (in exchange for the promise of not using the mage as a cudgel) it gets easier.
Toss in the stuff about animal companions in SOTA64 and you can get your own Pokemon style troll adept spirit-counter. Or just give the adept troll astral perception and use a force 1 weapon focus. |
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May 13 2005, 07:14 PM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-July 03 Member No.: 4,963 |
You talk like it's not possible for mundanes to fight materialized spirits. Pg 188, right column. The book describes it as a melee attack. I don't see anything that differentiates it from other melee attacks beyond what you roll. This means you get Friends in Melee bonuses and it gets Opponents in Melee penalties. So the best way to fight a materialized spirit is to have everyone swarm it en masse, mundanes and magical types alike. Many magical types are better off trying to use force of personality to take a spirit on rather than banishing. My conjurer/rigger will never try to banish a spirit that isn't his own. He's just going to pull out a 10' pole and pimp-slap it. |
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May 13 2005, 07:14 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 176 Joined: 8-March 05 Member No.: 7,146 |
Or culture Devil rat tissue in a tube. Spirit bashen club.
Oh, I know mundanes can fight materilized spirits, I've done it. (or more correctly stood infront of the darn thing smacking it with my staff, keeping if from eating the mage who was banishing it.) It's just scarry, monsters you can't see that can jumb out and get you from noware. Kind of like Sharks in the ocean. If you are above the water you basickly can't see them, and if you just watched Jaws, you can't help but wonder - just a little - what is down there. Now if you can go below the surface, you can see, and all is right. So mundanes can't help but be nervous about what is out there. |
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May 13 2005, 07:25 PM
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#31
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
My mistake with the skill. Bump it up to 5/10 However, according to the Cannon Companion uyou use the unarmed skill to swing around a metahuman body and it causes BOD +2 M Stun damage. However, your STR must to equal to or greater than the weapon's BOD. Here's an interesting scenairo... An astrally projecting mage is battling a Master Shedim that has possessed his body. The mage, unfortunatly, is outclassed. However, he has an astrally percieving multi-initiate adept friend with 18 unarmed dice + combat pool. The adept can't enguage the Shedim in unarmed combat without enguaging the mage's body so the mage has the adept use his astral form as an inprovized weapon (metahuman body). Would that possibly work?\ Or Master and Blaster... the Troll Adept and parapalegic Dwarf Cyberzombie. The CZ rides on the Troll's shoulders acting as a living weapon's turret untill something closes to melee, then the Troll uses him as a very high body and high willpower dual-natured club. |
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May 13 2005, 09:50 PM
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#32
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
I dare anybody to use this concept in a game and cry this out when you meet your first spirit... "PokeTroll, I choose You!" |
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May 14 2005, 12:30 AM
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#33
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
:rollin: Shaman Fight! Oversoul! Amidamaru in Harusame! Ahem... back on topic, I'd refer you to all those previous threads using FAB 3 bullets to shoot spirits. The principle here is the same. |
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May 14 2005, 02:35 AM
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#34
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
It isn't exactly the same. FAB bacteria isn't a canon weapon. The metahuman body is a canon weapon with a canon damage code. The FAB in a FAB filled bullet doesn't become a bullet. However, the Astral form of a sword foci is a sword and the Astral form of a metahuman body is a metahuman body.
Wielding a weapon with an independant astral presence is little different from wielding a weapon focus. The only real difference is that the focus is bound to the wielder and the metahuman body is not. This brings up a basic question about Astral combat. If you aren't bound to the weapon are you really using any skill to attack? I would lean toward yes for only one reason. Extrapolating from Earthdawn, if an IE decides to have a laugh by physically shifting you to Astral your physical weapons would works just as they do in the physical world. That, and the fact that you can use unbound objects to transmit force of will. |
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May 14 2005, 02:40 AM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 571 Joined: 9-January 05 From: In the 9th circle of hell Member No.: 6,950 |
LMAO! ROTF!
I'd laugh even harder, if someone hadn't sudjested this in my group once. Our GM at the time told us no. :-( Hmm... I am intreged. My only question would be do use str, or will? (Disclamer :we play SR2.5, most of the magic rules we use are 2nd, so if this is a bonehead question for SR#, please keep this in mind.) |
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May 14 2005, 02:50 AM
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#36
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
While for all intents and purposes, the Astral form of a sword weapon focus is that of a sword (since it deals damage in a manner similar to a sword, with the appropriate Attribute-linked Power and Damage level). But a metahuman astral form only looks like a metahuman body(SR3 p173). Also, while the troll may be able to use the ghoul's physical form for physical combat (Str>Bod), his Astral form might not be able to do so astrally(Cha<Will). |
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May 14 2005, 04:08 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 14-March 04 From: Cal Poly: SLO Member No.: 6,155 |
Or, just take a 2 liter bottle and fill it with FAB 3 before the fight. Instant spirit-club. |
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May 14 2005, 08:02 PM
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#38
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
FAB 1 and 2 do nothing to a spirit in astral combat, and FAB 3 takes time to drain force. None are viable threats in the timeframe of a club swing.
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May 15 2005, 12:28 AM
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#39
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,311 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Calgary, Alberta Member No.: 2,062 |
Now, I'm running purely from memory here, so bear with me. If anyone can contradict me and cite a source, however, I will retract the statement. The astral plane, being not the physical plane, does not have the same laws as the physical plane. Notable examples include gravity and inertia. Since there's no inertia, hitting something with something else doesn't have any effect. So, you (or whatever) you're swinging, actually has to go into combat with the spirit. I.E. the troll would be using his willpower and using the body as a way to focus that willpower. So, in that way, it doesn't matter how strong the troll is or how big the body is. |
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May 15 2005, 12:32 AM
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#40
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
If the astral entity could easily step aside the ghoul-club what chance does an astrally preceiving Adept have of punching a spirit that is fully astral? |
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May 15 2005, 12:46 AM
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#41
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
None unless the adept has distance strike or the spirits starts the fight. Once a spirit gets close enough to kick the astral component of your ass, it can be countered. Until that time, the sheer difference in relative speed is one of the spirit's strongest defenses. |
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May 15 2005, 01:13 AM
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#42
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Yes, once it is within reach of course....bringing us (back?) to the question what is the weapon reach of a standard ghoul body. Hmm, i like the sound of that question so much i think i'll say it again. :) What is the weapon reach of a standard ghoul body? |
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May 15 2005, 07:47 AM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 596 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,112 |
Probably 2, but I guess if you grabbed it by the hands you might be able to stretch it out to three.
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May 15 2005, 06:24 PM
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#44
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
That the beauty of Astral Perception. Dual beings use STR and BOD insted of CHA and WILL. Actaully, since that is the case the Ghoul club would probably cause BOD+2 M damage as normal. |
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May 15 2005, 09:15 PM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 90 |
This can be easily done by SR3, and the body/club doesn't even have to be dual natured.
Fight the spirit via Force of Will, and by the rules reach does count, the weapon doesn't matter. So it's just a matter of determining reach of the metahuman body. |
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May 15 2005, 11:02 PM
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#46
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Force of Will only works on materialized spirits. For astral spirits only unarmed, sorcery/astral combat, mana spells, and astrally present weapons work.
A mundane swinging around a ghoul wouldn't damage a spirit because SR3 states that both weapon and wielder hae to be astrally present, by the way. |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 15 2005, 11:11 PM
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#47
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Guests |
That makes sense when you're using a Weapon Focus, not a Ghoul.
In my interpretation, the weapon is being wielded by himself. The fact that he's being moved involuntarily is a technicality. |
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May 29 2005, 01:26 AM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 354 Joined: 11-April 05 From: 123 Anytown, USA Member No.: 7,316 |
You could if you used an aluminum bat filled with the bacteria, Or had one made of titanium or some other hard metal... |
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May 29 2005, 10:22 PM
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#49
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Nope, because the bat isn't astrally active. The bacteria in the bat are but they have the astral form of bacteria, not a bat. They will cause damage as bacteria do, which isn't quickly enough to be of any use. |
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May 30 2005, 12:50 AM
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#50
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Hence the tube of cultured Devil Rat flesh. ;) |
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