Leadermancer, The Non-pornographic pornomancer Options

[Glyph]

You miscalculated. Genetic Optimization increases his unaugmented maximum Charisma to 9. That means that the eigth point only costs 10 BP. That's why I bought it in the first place. You're calculation is 15 BP too high.

I kind of assumed you were doing that, looking at the stats. Not every GM would allow it to work that way. He was also wrong on the skills, though. Leadership: 7 with the specialization should cost 34 points (he forgot the specialization, which makes it cost 30, and to double the cost for the last point, which adds 4 more).

I get 30 for elf, 190 for Attributes, 75 for special Attributes, 5 net points back for positive/negative qualities, 90 points for skills = 380 points. Add 9 BP for geneware and 9 BP for bioware, and the character has 2 BP left for contacts and other gear. 10,000 Nuyen is enough for the absolute essentials, but your character will be starting out with no contacts unless the GM uses the (relatively common) house rule giving free contact points equal to Charisma. I assume he intends to "acquire" most of his contacts in-game, which he certainly has the skill-set for. It's like a decker starting out without a deck, though. He'll nab one soon enough, but he'll be a bit handicapped for the first two or three runs.

Knowledge skills are (Intuition plus Logic) x 3, so actually you have 17 points left to spend on those.

[WearzManySkins]

On reflection of many thoughts...This is a Munchkin Build that I would not allow in my games, yes by RAW it is legal, but still by definition a Munchkin build.

Thank you for another example of such, so I can identify them even faster now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

If your GM allows it more power to you, and pity on your GM's soul and game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

WMS

[toturi]

On reflection of many thoughts...This is a Munchkin Build that I would not allow in my games, yes by RAW it is legal, but still by definition a Munchkin build.

Thank you for another example of such, so I can identify them even faster now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

If your GM allows it more power to you, and pity on your GM's soul and game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

WMS

The Canon and the RAW does not require your pity, only your compliance.

There is no canon or RAW definition of a Munchkin build, therefore it does not exist.

[WearzManySkins]

The Canon and the RAW does not require your pity, only your compliance.

There is no canon or RAW definition of a Munchkin build, therefore it does not exist.

*Breaks Winds in ArchBishop Of Canonista Toturinia's Nose* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

WMS

[hyzmarca]

I kind of assumed you were doing that, looking at the stats. Not every GM would allow it to work that way. He was also wrong on the skills, though. Leadership: 7 with the specialization should cost 34 points (he forgot the specialization, which makes it cost 30, and to double the cost for the last point, which adds 4 more).

I missed that. It is rather silly given that the cost already built into aptitude.

[paws2sky]

You're doing it wrong. One extremely crucial thing is missing - you need to be able to speak Ancient Greek. And use a spear.


-paws

[hyzmarca]

You're doing it wrong. One extremely crucial thing is missing - you need to be able to speak Ancient Greek. And use a spear.


-paws

This .........
is ...........
SEATTLE!!!!!!!!!

[Cain]

On reflection of many thoughts...This is a Munchkin Build that I would not allow in my games, yes by RAW it is legal, but still by definition a Munchkin build.

Thank you for another example of such, so I can identify them even faster now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

If your GM allows it more power to you, and pity on your GM's soul and game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

I wouldn't allow it either, but I'm willing to admit it's because I couldn't cope with this character in one of my games. I wouldn't call him a "munchkin build", because munchkin is a player type, and not a build process. I've seen much less powerful characters in the hands of true munchkins; they caused serious damage, without being nearly as maxed-out. I'd certainly entertain powerful character concepts from players that I knew wouldn't abuse them.

[damaleon]

Interesting build, but I noticed one small problem: to have a Mentor Spirit, you have to be a Mystic Adept or Magician.

If you want the +2 from the spirit, you need to pay 5 BP for Mystic Adept and drop a point from the Adept Powers, or drop it and you have BP for a contact or some gear.

[hyzmarca]

Interesting build, but I noticed one small problem: to have a Mentor Spirit, you have to be a Mystic Adept or Magician.

If you want the +2 from the spirit, you need to pay 5 BP for Mystic Adept and drop a point from the Adept Powers, or drop it and you have BP for a contact or some gear.

Street Magic - Shamanic Way Adept, thank you very much.

[damaleon]

I read that part, but I don't see a mention saying it bypasses the need for Mystic Adept or Magician, only that they may exhibit the Shamanic Mask. I don't see anything saying you get the Mentor Spirit positive quality automaticly, or that you can buy it, only that you believe you have a mentor spirit.

As none of the other Adept Ways give them special access, I personally wouldn't allow it as a way of bypassing a preq. to the quality, but I could see a person's GM ruling differently.

[hyzmarca]

It's just common sense.

[damaleon]

Not the way I see it.

I see the rules stating you have to be a Mystic Adept or Magician to have the quality. I see nothing in the description explicitly allowing you to take it, and none of the other Ways allowing you anything extra (except the shamanic mask).

[hyzmarca]

Not the way I see it.

I see the rules stating you have to be a Mystic Adept or Magician to have the quality. I see nothing in the description explicitly allowing you to take it, and none of the other Ways allowing you anything extra (except the shamanic mask).

But it also doesn't say that an Adept can't have the quality.

Besides, Shamanic Way adepts would need to have the Mentor Spirit quality in order to go on Astral Quests. Since they don't have access to astral projection, they'd need for their Totems to open Astral Gateways directly into the metaplanes for them.

[Cang]

I also dont see just because a shamanic tradition is followed by the adept would give him a mentor. I mean mentors are not just for shamans, so would a hermetic adept get a mentor too? What about a non magical meta that follows a shamanic religion. Its a slippery slope, i think your grabbing for straws.

[cryptoknight]

Easy way to get around the gremlins.

Take 20 points of in debt instead... you get 20,000 Nuyen... a 30,000 nuyen debt, and payments of 3,000 nuyen per month added to your lifestyle.

No gremlins.. the emotoy works fine... and ... you can probably talk the loan sharks into ignoring the debt pretty quick.

[DireRadiant]

Cool Resolve... more dice

[Little Johnson]

.

No gremlins.. the emotoy works fine... and ... you can probably talk the loan sharks into ignoring the debt pretty quick.

Hans solo could only talk his way out of trouble for so long before he became wall art for jabba the hut.

[cryptoknight]

Hans solo could only talk his way out of trouble for so long before he became wall art for jabba the hut.

Sure sure... but my social adept has in debt... at the max of 30 pts... 4,500 nuyen per month is easy enough to pay and maintain a lifestyle... and save up for the future... or to pay down the principal.

[Tarantula]

Aren't you aware of the effects frequencies have on human emotions? Certain subsonics can cause fear, certain ultrasonics can cause anxiety. Even within a more normal range, people respond differently to voices of a different pitch. For example, a child's voice causes a different psychological reaction than an adult's. A soft woman's voice causes a different reaction than a harsh male voice. And so on and so forth. Here is one study that I discovered in about 10 seconds of Google-fu.

So, we're back to 51 dice versus a maximum of 9.


If he's running the shadows, he's already prepared to face the scandals that might ensue. However, since he's successfully getting people to kill themselves or surrender, if he packs some Laes he won't be leaving any witnesses behind.

You're the one who indicated 2 or 3 net successes. And again, that's more than enough to get them to surrender. And when we ignore your reading that's been deliberately nerfed, we're discussing a more realistic 17 successes. I covered about six to eight of your nerfs about fifteen posts back.

You mean that post? The one where you addressed ONLY the vocal range extender bonus, which is +1?

[hyzmarca]

The entire point of the build is just to stop them long enough for him to use his Enthralling Performance to keep them in their seats while he delivers an impassioned speech about life and love that will hopefully lead the to reexamine their career choices and stop fighting against him. The Commanding Voice was never meant to be anything more than a stop-gap solution to segue into a more permanent technique.

[Cain]

You mean that post? The one where you addressed ONLY the vocal range extender bonus, which is +1?

No, the one you ignored before it, where I said this:

You've misread a lot of what the leadermancer has to offer. For example, the vocal range enhancer does work; smells carry quite a long ways, and most combats are within 30 meters or less; there are specializations under Leadership, and the listed specializations are not the only ones possible; and so on and so forth.

[Wasabi]

The "Empathy" software at rating 6 from Arsenal p61 would be a good addition.
[Avail 12, 3000 nuyen]

[Tarantula]

You've misread a lot of what the leadermancer has to offer. For example, the vocal range enhancer does work; smells carry quite a long ways, and most combats are within 30 meters or less; there are specializations under Leadership, and the listed specializations are not the only ones possible; and so on and so forth.

Oh? Where is anything to show that smells carry a long ways? Listed specializations are the only RAW ones. Being within 30 meters I will guess is your reasoning for why he can smell them?

Here is my arguements for why bonuses wouldn't count.

8 (Charisma) good
6 (Leadership) good
2 (specialization) no valid specialization
3 (Glamour) must not act hostile. I think telling them to surrender is fairly hostile.
6 (Global Fame) Only benefits when the character can bring their social status to bear. Telling some guards what to do shouldn't qualify.
2 (First Impression) Only works when trying to fit in, not when trying to order people about.
5 (Kinesics) works
3 (Improved Ability) works
3 (Tailored Pheromes) Doesn't work, rule quoted below. Its a magical effect, specifically doesn't work for magical effects.
2 (Enhanced Pherome Receptors) Aug, 64, "Additionally, recipients may experience extreme discomfort in crowds due to the overwhelming amount of odors. They suffer a dice pool penalty equal to half the receptors’ rating (round up) to all tests due to the strong distraction."
Actually, I think it'd penalize you, due to there being a crowd. So thats a -2 modifier instead.
1 (Vocal Range Enhancer) I'll give you this one. Yelling at 'em like a drill sergeant instead of a schoolgirl would help.
2 (Minor Biosculpting) Aug, 61, "Also keep in mind that while it is entirely appropriate for characters to gain a +2 dice pool bonus to Social skill tests for being romantically attractive to some NPCs"
I doubt the NPCs are going to typically be attracted to the leadermancer. Especially in mid combat when they've hardly had time to look at her.
6 (Empathy Software) works, cheezy as it is.
1 (symbiosis gives bonus to social skills vs. inhabitants of her neighborhood) How often do you do shadowruns in your own backyard? I'd say 99% of the time, you won't be ordering the guards nearby around, so typically this wouldn't work.
1 (effects of eX) works

Thats 28 dice. You're starting with. Throw on social modifiers:
Hostile -4
disastrous to npc -4
npc has ace in hole +2 to his resist (HTRT)
guard has superior rank -3
character is not a part of guards social strata -3
Gives you 14 dice left.
Even a 4 willpower guard, +5 for buddies +2 for ace in hole has 11. Chances are you'll get 1 net hit.

To address psychophipps who posted in the other thread.

Tailored Pheromones add because smell in the most "primitive" sense and has the strongest connection to both attitude and memory. Being most connected to the "reptile brain", it also is the hardest to ignore of the senses when you get a disconnect. An excellent example would be having an excellently prepared dish of your favorite foods set in front of you except that it's in a room that is continually being pumped full of the smell of a three-day carcass. Another good one is how you will subconsciously tell someone you normally wouldn't talk to that they smell good and that your mood will invariably, if temporarily, improve when you smell them.

That said, if you are talking to a leadermancer with these pheromones in effect then you will be trying to fight off an overall feeling of *insert whatever negative or positive feeling they want here* along with whatever is going on with your other senses and the scent will create a subconscious reaction that might fight what you have coming from the other senses but the subconscious almost always wins over the conscious which is why you sometimes drive all the way to work and don't remember it at all a few hours later.

An excellent example, would be that you're a loookout on an operation to get some paydata when an attractive person walks up to you. Psychology places subconscious trust in attractive people higher than unattractive people so they get a bonus there. This person speaks confidently and calmly for another subconscious psychological trigger to relax. Then the pheromones kick in and you get another trigger in your reptile brain that screams trust and love and relaxation and how everything is going to be Ok no matter what. They say, "Eat this pill" with a dazzling smile and eyes full of command and you find yourself reacting without thought by holding out your hand for the pill as the silky caresses of their voice fills your mind with a want...no, a need to obey...

That said, it's not quite "Shoot yourself!" as the insane stresses of combat will make it hard to get past the fight/flight reflex but that just means that your pornomancer/leadermancer will have to be a bit on the sneaky side rather than just rolling up on bitches and skullfucking them.

The reason I am harping on tailored pheromones the worst is this SR4, 339, "This bonus has no effect on magical abilities and tests."

[Cain]

2 (specialization) no valid specialization
3 (Glamour) must not act hostile. I think telling them to surrender is fairly hostile.
6 (Global Fame) Only benefits when the character can bring their social status to bear. Telling some guards what to do shouldn't qualify.
2 (First Impression) Only works when trying to fit in, not when trying to order people about.
5 (Kinesics) works
3 (Improved Ability) works
3 (Tailored Pheromes) Doesn't work, rule quoted below. Its a magical effect, specifically doesn't work for magical effects.
2 (Enhanced Pherome Receptors) Aug, 64, "Additionally, recipients may experience extreme discomfort in crowds due to the overwhelming amount of odors. They suffer a dice pool penalty equal to half the receptors’ rating (round up) to all tests due to the strong distraction."
Actually, I think it'd penalize you, due to there being a crowd. So thats a -2 modifier instead.
1 (Vocal Range Enhancer) I'll give you this one. Yelling at 'em like a drill sergeant instead of a schoolgirl would help.
2 (Minor Biosculpting) Aug, 61, "Also keep in mind that while it is entirely appropriate for characters to gain a +2 dice pool bonus to Social skill tests for being romantically attractive to some NPCs"
I doubt the NPCs are going to typically be attracted to the leadermancer. Especially in mid combat when they've hardly had time to look at her.
6 (Empathy Software) works, cheezy as it is.
1 (symbiosis gives bonus to social skills vs. inhabitants of her neighborhood) How often do you do shadowruns in your own backyard? I'd say 99% of the time, you won't be ordering the guards nearby around, so typically this wouldn't work.
1 (effects of eX) works

Glamour: Telling people to surrender is the opposite of hostile.
Specialization: Listed ones are not the only ones possible. For example, an otaku might take Software with a spec in Threading.
Global Fame: "Hey, isn't that the action star Jackie Chun? Man, he could kick all our asses!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
First Impression: You forgot it works for infiltration.
Enhanced Phermone Receptors: The active term is "may". If you're not inflicting the penalty all the time, suddenly applying in every time commanding voice comes into play is GM metagame cheese.
Minor Biosculpting: What, haven't you ever heard of the "Art of Distraction"?
Tailored Phermones: If you're going to be technical about this, then so can I. It doesn't give a bonus to the Commanding Voice power, it gives the bonus to a Leadership test.

We're back up to 51 dice or so, despite your attempts to nerf the power.