Form of a lion!, Shapechange & possession Options

[Ol' Scratch]

You assume the FAQ is correct about that.

Shapechange doesn't let you turn into a metahuman. It's very specific about turning the subject into a normal critter. Critters are not metahumans.

SR4A, p 292, Critters: "Critters refer in general to all non-human creatures that characters may encounter." There are also no metahumans listed in the sections for Ordinary Critters in SR4A or Mundane Critters in Running Wild.

[Lansdren]

You assume the FAQ is correct about that.

Shapechange doesn't let you turn into a metahuman. It's very specific about turning the subject into a normal critter. Critters are not metahumans.

SR4A, p 292, Critters: "Critters refer in general to all non-human creatures that characters may encounter." There are also no metahumans listed in the sections for Ordinary Critters in SR4A or Mundane Critters in Running Wild.

This may boil down to if you take the FAQ as actually any use or not. The problem will come if you take the FAQ answer on one thing but not on another to me its all or nothing either it is correct or it is not. but each to their own.

[Mäx]

This may boil down to if you take the FAQ as actually any use or not. The problem will come if you take the FAQ answer on one thing but not on another to me its all or nothing either it is correct or it is not. but each to their own.

FAQ is correct when it doesn't contradict the books.

[Yerameyahu]

I meant a 'plain old' possessed metahuman (armor, guns, etc.). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not a shapechanged one, heh.

[Laodicea]

I meant a 'plain old' possessed metahuman (armor, guns, etc.). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not a shapechanged one, heh.

Oh. I'm definitely more afraid of the lion.

[Lansdren]

A shapechanged Lion is scary for one on one combat but I find a similarly changed Hawk more scary if your going to still be casting alot

Cast at F5 you end up with physical stats of

B6 A9 R8 S6
get low light vision and the ability to fly

Never underestimate the ability to be a very small, mobile target

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

A shapechanged Lion is scary for one on one combat but I find a similarly changed Hawk more scary if your going to still be casting alot

Cast at F5 you end up with physical stats of

B6 A9 R8 S6
get low light vision and the ability to fly

Never underestimate the ability to be a very small, mobile target

^^^^ This...

Keep the Faith

[Laodicea]

A shapechanged Lion is scary for one on one combat but I find a similarly changed Hawk more scary if your going to still be casting alot

Cast at F5 you end up with physical stats of

B6 A9 R8 S6
get low light vision and the ability to fly

Never underestimate the ability to be a very small, mobile target

This would rule. So would the lion.

[Greegan]

The anti-Possession argument (i.e. not in control) is not taking Channelling Meta-Magic into account. This totally throws any question about who's in control out the window (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Greegan]

The anti-Possession argument (i.e. not in control) is not taking Channelling Meta-Magic into account. This totally throws any question about who's in control out the window (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

...and if I was too vague in my post - the Channelling metamagic talent puts the summoner in full control of his own body during the possession. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[The Jopp]

Hmm. this is getting weird.

So, If I as a magician decides to have myself possessed I am still fully aware but cannot control my body.

Which means I could potentially handle the situation like a rigger possessing a drone - except I can actually cast spells after I have told my spirit what to do.

1: Order spirit to give covering fire with my assault rifle.
2: Use my bodys senses (sight) to target the hostiles my spirit is shooting at and fling spells at them.

I should even be able to do this while shapeshifted and possesed.

I would give a minus to dicepool since I would (obviously) be a bit distracted by my spirit controlling my body.

[Modular Man]

I always thought of the FAQ as "good base for possible house rules, if the need arises", not as "rules as written". At the very least, at one point the FAQ opposes the original rules and I find the the whole "you can shapechange into a human, but not a metahuman"-thing rather... strange. In my book, paracritters still posess a magical attribute, which most metahumans don't.

Yes, but it's still just a big animal. The spirit's doing most of the work, and the metahuman would get that equally… and be able to carry guns. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This. Shapechange grants you a few higher body attributes while (most of the time, see monkeys) taking you the ability to use equipment designed for metahumans (armor, for instance). That's always been the deal. Possession always raised those attributes, too. So where's the big deal in here?
You could easily shapechange a force 6 materialization fire spirit into a black bear, too. It would gain high strengh this way. All you have to do is learn the spell, cast and sustain it.

[Falconer]

I don't buy the argument that you escape your augmented max by switching forms. You're still in your own flesh and your flesh has limits. I've also held in the past, that shapechange doesn't escape you from the limits of your native form.


Also completely forgotten is this little chestnut. The form chosen must have an average body score within 2 points of yours. As soon as you possess yourself... your body score changes so far up to the augmented max that only things like elephants, whales, and the like have usable scores. Since the RAW never handles it... it's up to the GM how he plays it.

Same goes for things like lack of attribute caps... given the absolute twinkness that is high force spirits and especially that is possession mages I can't see myself going along with this.

[KCKitsune]

I REALLY wish that they would throw the Possession rules out the window. As was said in other threads, Mages get enough love. Stop making them able to be a tank.

Also I REALLY hate the fact that the spirit doesn't have a say in what the person does with THEIR "body".

If I was GMing and some player did this I would have the spirit go along once or twice, but I would have the spirit getting angry, when the player goes overboard again, I would bring the hammer down.

[The Jopp]

Depending on how you view spirits you could always twist the mages order.

If the mage orders the spirit to possess him and attack the enemies they face would the mage control EVERYTHING the spirit does or would the spirit be able to interpret the orders to "handle things at your discretion" - thus giving the spirit a way to bend the orders a bit.

Like making dumb decisions in order to get disrupted and get some rest for 24 hours...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Maybe. If we assume it's an "average" member of their species, than it'd be more like critter attribute X3. "average" human = 3, maximum human = 9.

Nope... Average Troll Strength is 7, Their Augmented Cap is still only a 15, not a 21... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

EDIT: OOOps, just realized this topic has been Necromancied. Sorry...

[Badmoodguy88]

Getting disrupted is described as fairly traumatic from what I read. When it happens to a free spirit they loose a point of force, which if it happened to a summoned spirit with they way they are stated it would be like loosing a point in every attribute including edge, magic, and essence. With summoned spirits I think they are protected from that but it still is probably very unpleasant.

It is a tough call how often you need to expend services to get the spirit through the run while being useful. Assist my team mates might mean noncombat help and support abilities. Then when combat rolls around another service to have the spirit join combat and not just buff allies. Then after combat another service to have it continue aiding allies in whatever way seems reasonable. It is hard to say but the spirit is supposed to be on your side for the most part. Even when hostile it may be to teach you a lesson or at least not lethally hostile.

Anyway I always thought the stats for most critters were way to low.