An odd possibility, given the new similarities... Options

[Witness]

Hehe

[FanGirl]

[Witness]

Ehran the Scribe- that icon of modesty!
I'm not sure if Ehran knows everything that there is to know about magic (much as he might like us to believe to the contrary), nor that he is above spreading misleading information if it suits him (and he does like kicking those archaeologists when they're down). But *shrug*, who knows?
I do know that the Big D was slightly less starstruck by the Mayan Long Count:

[Waltermandias]

I'm likely reading too much into this, but everytime I read that speech I can't help but think that Ehran is buttering up his audience with "Elven Secrets." The part about not letting the oo-mans know, but telling a huge group of elves at a dinner seems a little disingenuous. Besides, the YET is Ehran's pet organization, I suspect he is just playing to his audience and getting his Elven Nationalism on.

[Azralon]

All these years of the great Otaku mystery (now repackaged as the TM mystery) remind me of the decades of speculation as to Wolverine's origins.

In the beginning, Wolverine's original creator secretly conceptualized him as a little feisty kid who wore gloves with built-in knives. Then another author took over and decided that nah, he's actually a short adult with cyberclaws. Then other authors along the way decided that his mysterious background took him through Japan, a World War, a pirate haven, high-level black ops, yadda yadda yadda.

The whole time we the readers never even knew his full name. We weren't sure who he was, where he originally came from, if Sabretooth was supposed to be his father, and all sorts of little subplots designed to tantalize rather than resolve.

In truth the authors knew better than to actually resolve Wolverine's mysterious past. Instead, multiple authors with their own little ideas all contributed to the intrigue because it helped sell comic books.

And then one day a Marvel author decided the mystery had gone on long enough. Wolverine's name is James.

....

Er, thanks, Marvel.

~~~~~

So likewise all this technomancer stuff would actually get less "cool" if we explicitly knew how it really worked. It's one thing to have years of wondrously speculative and circular discussions over the true nature of the SR universe, and it's another to read one day -- in canonical black and white -- that "Resonance is a form of ancient Martian magic."

I'd be like, "Oh. Okay. Well, that settles that. Sorta damages my continuity, but, uhm. Thanks for the memo.... I guess?"

I mean, imagine if the first episode of John Doe told us everything about him. Or if we found out what the real deal is on Lost. It just wouldn't spark our imaginations as much as the present mystery.

[Witness]

waltermandias: yeah that's more or less my reading of it too.

azralon: you're right of course, and one of the best aspects of SR's 'fluff' is the amount of liberty you have as a GM, even when it comes to interpreting 'canon'. I've spent a lot of time and done a lot of reading to come up with my SR 'theory of everything' and it's been fun. Chatting about it: no less so.

[Witness]

Actually though Az, thinking about it long and hard...
One could argue that part of the problem with the Wolvie arc was that so many mysteries were introduced that there could never be a satisfactory resolution. Same goes for Lost, etc.

Sure, a game like this positively thrives on GM and player interpretation, but that, perhaps, is a trick that only works for a while (look how fed up some people have evidently become with Lost: same thing can surely happen with SR- it just takes longer because there're such long gaps between 'episodes'.)

So I guess what I'm saying is... if, ultimately, you feel you've been strung along and the designers of your favourite fantasy had no great coherent picture in mind when they started it... sooner or later that's going to bite.

On the other hand, I do believe that- even with a 'history' as convoluted as SR, it is possible to construct a perfectly valid 'solution' that fits the available evidence, while at the same time opening up new questions and new mysteries. That- actually- is the wonder of science, as far as I'm concerned!


Sorry James McMurray, BTW, for perhaps distracting from your point. For what it's worth, I'll reiterate that I believe that the Great Pattern was a form of early Matrix, therefore the magical happenings that occur in the Matrix occur as a result of a resonance between the Matrix and the Great Pattern.

I do believe that a magical entity could, with the right portal, enter the Matrix, but I also entertain the possibility that a Matrix entity could, with the right portal, enter the magical realm (which interests me rather more what with the parallels between AIs and Passions)

Furthermore the Matrix 2.0 might have been engineered (by someone- I'm not saying who) to better reflect the Great Pattern and therefore to draw the two networks closer together.

Let me also say that I believe metaplanes to be the Great Pattern equivalent of Reality Filters, and that the materialization of Spirits in the physical realm might resemble a sort of ancient hologram/sologram technology that is now fundamentally built in to the Earth and its life-forms.

I also believe that the Gaeacentric view of the manasphere is false (holding as evidence the fact that Foveae have life but apparently not 'mana'), and that 'raw mana' is in fact present throughout the universe (to the delight of horoi), with Earth being perhaps the only exception on account of the Great Pattern acting as a sort of Firewall + Operating System of threaded mana that thereby limits Horoi abilities.

I furthermore maintain that the cycle of magic is not a predictable clockwork mechanism (compare your time-scales folks!) but rather a case of the Great Pattern 'rebooting' now and then.

To actually answer your question, I'm much more worried about AIs finding a way to turn themselves into spirits than spirits/mages finding a way to turn themselves into AIs. But then I believe that Deus is the re-emergence of Dis and Mirage is the re-emergence of Mynbruje.

Still, I think it's all pretty much inevitable and lays the way for a pretty interesting Epoch Seven, about which I may post some other time. And if you read through all of that, here, have a banana! ;)

By-the-way, I am the Grand High Poobah of the Secestry of El, and may therefore not constitute a credible witness.

[James McMurray]

Hey, if I was the type to get upset at a thread being derailed every now and then I wouldn't start it on an internet forum. :)

Thanks for the input. It definitely got my mind rolling around new crevices.

[FanGirl]

[fistandantilus4....]

[Synner]

You might have to dig out Black Madonna to piece the bits together, but the final clues are "Little Devil" and "Etherlux".

[fistandantilus4....]

damn, I knew that you were going to bring that book up. Not that I have a problem with it, but it happens to be sitting on the shelf at my house while I have SoA and SoE right here next to me at work. I'll see what I can dig up and get back to you on BM. Meanwhile, I'll see if my google-fu can pull up anything and dive on in to SoA .
I can't help but wonder also if it had something to do with that damn kid...

Oh, and Synner, thanks for giving me somethign to do at work. :D

[fistandantilus4....]

"think I got it.
Etherlux, the company w/ access to the shrines

Owned by a kid in his mid twenties. Came up in the late fifties from a Renraku black bag account. A "prodigy" , "hailing from Iran of all places".

So the guy you're referring to is Leo's little androgynous sidekick form Black Madonna. The one that apparently relocated to India.

Blackbag account from Renraku- The whole project w/ Leo

Iran- Leo's little base for his Great Work was based out of Iran (recent reference from Blood in the Board room)

Mid-50's- the Black Maddona incident, was IIRC 55. I'll double check that.

I'll check the book because I don't recall him being magically active OR a decker, much less an otaku, but it has been a while since I read it

(pg63 SoA -IndiaSubcontinent by Peter Taylor) sneaky Synner

[Azralon]

[Synner]

[fistandantilus4....]

damn... something else to look up. :D

I've been wondering also if that reference at the end of System Failure about the genius elf everyone is trying to extract from S-K is Leo. Normally I wouldn't look at it twice, except that it mentions that Scale is guarding him. That makes it pretty significant.

Oh, and I like sprinkles.