 An odd possibility, given the new similarities... |
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 Apr 10 2006, 08:51 AM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319  |
Thanks :)
There's more. But I'll have to wait till my current game progresses a little further before I post some tantalising documents from the 2050s and 2060s for you guys to argue over! |
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Apr 10 2006, 02:12 PM
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#52
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Friendly reminder. :) |
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Apr 10 2006, 02:43 PM
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#53
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
From a mechanics point of view, the similarities of Complex Forms to Skills - You buy each up one point at a time. - You add their rating in dice to the die pool. - Use does not cause Drain/Fading. - There are no -2 die "sustaining" pentalies associated with them. Threading is the closest Technomancer game mechanic to Spells.
Because you haven't really looked at the game mechanics themselves, just giving a superficial glance just as many others have? Once again Techonmancer game mechanics are similar but fundementally different than Magicians. |
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Apr 10 2006, 02:57 PM
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#54
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
How many discussions ever do? |
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Apr 10 2006, 03:28 PM
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#55
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
blakkie: nobody ever said they were identical that I can see. In fact, the thread started because they are similar, not because they are identical.
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Apr 10 2006, 03:37 PM
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#56
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
I repeat:
Neko even unwittingly helped backed up my observation on this. :love: The similarities really are just that they are in the same game instead of being a different game for every section like it was in SR3. You are mistaking OOC organization as IC links. EDIT: Oddly Technomancers might be a bit easier to play if you could buy up Complex Forms more like the Adept's in a flat rate of karma per rating like you do with PP per rating on most Adept powers. |
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Apr 10 2006, 04:05 PM
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#57
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Ok, so ignoring the complex forms thing, what do you think would be the rules and social ramifications of someone managing to project himself to the metaplane of the matrix, or somehow learn "AR Sight" instead of "Astral Perception?"
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Apr 10 2006, 04:21 PM
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#58
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
What is next, poetry? You'll find I am much harder to defeat that way than Norman was. :wobble: ;) |
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Apr 10 2006, 04:31 PM
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#59
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I'm not exactly sure what that means. I didn't realize I was trying to "defeat" anyone, just soliciting an opinion.
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Apr 10 2006, 04:35 PM
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#60
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
What if D-O-G spelt "cat"? That is the kind of nonsensical, unanswerable question it stikes me as. |
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Apr 10 2006, 04:39 PM
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#61
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
So then your stance is that it can't happen: why?
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Apr 10 2006, 04:47 PM
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#62
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
My stance is "WTF?", the W standing for not only "what" but also "why" and *blank stare*. Basically the same stance I'd have if asked: What do you think would be the rules and social ramifications of Richard Villers having in truth been a Great Dragon that is the vessle for a Horror's hidden life since before he took control of Matrix Systems, and he really, really likes hot Pop Tarts shoved down his pants? |
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Apr 10 2006, 05:02 PM
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#63
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Glad to see you've got an open mind about these things. :)
Reasons why: 1) metaplanes are conceptual realities (theoretically) 2) the matrix is a conceptual reality 3) it is possible that the matrix is a manmade metaplane 4) initiates can project themselves into metaplanes 5) if 3 is true, then it is theoretically possible for a mage to project himself into the matrix Possible rules ramifications: 1) would mages be able to manipulate the matrix (i.e. hack) or just visit it? In my game they wouldn't, because they're already good enough without being able to steal the thunger from the technodudes 2) Could IC or Agents attack a mage who was using his AR Sight? I'd say sure, but you wouldn't be present on the astral because you aren't projecting, so you'd be safe from attacks on that front 3) Can you put a ward on a computer and prevent a mage from entering its nodes? Possible social ramifications: 1) antimagic groups have more to throw on the fire, because the average man won't know or won't believe it when the magical types tell them they can't use their newfound ability to Hack 2) several companies start up putting wards on computers to prevent mages from entering those nodes 3) Richard Villiers, aka Cyberzombie the Horror Dragon gets ticked off because now his plot to dominate the world by inserting agents into all the coffee makers is now in danger. And he'd have gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for those meddling kids and their dog! For your question: I don't know, as I don't follow SR canon history religiously, but I can think of lots of things a great dragon horror may want to do if he found himself in control of shaping how the matrix were made. For instance: - he may want to strengthen its ties to another metaplane (the one that the horror is from) and use it to somehow open a portal for an assault force to move into Earth's reality. - he may want to work it so that he can dowload his personality directly into the matrix, thereby becoming supreme god of all that is (or at least a facsimile thereof) - he may want to use his power and wealth to get laid by sexy other horrors - he may want to take the "why can't we all just get along" route and leave his hatemongering horror days behind him As for rules ramifications, I can't really think of any, other than a verification that horrors are around and a need to stat a few up. Probably a "Horrors" sourcebook would be in order, giving new ways to create, summon, and combat them. |
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Apr 10 2006, 05:02 PM
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#64
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
forgot reason why #6:
6) It could be fun |
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Apr 10 2006, 05:21 PM
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#65
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
You use words that can be found in Shadowrun literature but then you strip away their Shadowrun meaning and select a new meaning from the other potential meanings of those words in the English language. I'm not a hardcore canon freak. I'm cool with flexibility in games and twisting the setting around. I'm just trying to let you know that you are asking bizzare questions and wandering so off the reservation that you'll need to provide a whole lot more context because you just tossed most of the existing context out the window. P.S. True that it might be "fun"! Just like it might be fun to play a game where Richard Villers is a Horror-powered GD with a Pop Tart fetish (let's not bring Cyberzombies into this :P). But not likely.....except maybe the Pop Tart part. :) |
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Apr 10 2006, 05:48 PM
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#66
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Yet no differences in mechanics.
Unfortunatly. Magic is mutually exclusive to Magic Resistance - Technomancy isn't. Assensing distinguishes between Awakend and Technomancer. |
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Apr 10 2006, 06:15 PM
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#67
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
How so?
Like what? i.e., what questions does my question open? |
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Apr 10 2006, 06:25 PM
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#68
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
What if D-O-G spelt "cat"? |
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Apr 10 2006, 06:26 PM
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#69
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Well, I suppose there's only so far you can try to maintain a logical conversation with someone before they lose their mind. Nice talking to ya!
If you get some medication or something and want to try again, I'll be here. |
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Apr 10 2006, 06:36 PM
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#70
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i hate to say it, but i agree with blakkie. you're putting together this string of improbables, impossibles, and what-ifs, and then trying to explore the possible ramifiactions. the problem is, every link in your chain is variable, with its own different possible ramifications depending how exactly it works. the end result of all those possible branching ramifications is impossible to do more than speculate wildly on.
here is a mathematical representation of your question: a+b+c+d=e solve for e |
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Apr 10 2006, 06:37 PM
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#71
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Odd, that is exactly what I'm trying to get across. You are well beyond the reach of the sane. :) The answer exists spread throughout SR in a number of books. You want I should retype and annote all this for you? Go read. |
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Apr 10 2006, 06:38 PM
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#72
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
LOL, i swear i can hear your teeth grinding as you type that out. :rotfl: Mark on the wall indeed that we agree. ;) |
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Apr 10 2006, 06:43 PM
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#73
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
nah, no teeth grinding. i treat you the way you treat logic: most days, i pretend you don't exist. |
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Apr 10 2006, 06:45 PM
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#74
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
By "logic" you mean "mfb's own special brand of 'logic', where reading is optional"? :grinbig: |
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Apr 10 2006, 06:48 PM
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#75
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
It's already been solved for. e = a+b+c+d (sometimes you just gotta reverse the order to make it look like you expect it to look) ;) My question is more along the lines of: 1) Let's assume that a+b+c+d = e 2) What are the rules and societal implecations of e?
That'd be great. But then again, I'm not looking for canon SR answers, as I already said. I'm looking for possible side effects of the discovery that the matrix is a metaplane, and the further possibilities inherent in projecting to that metaplane (or perceiving it via a different version of astral perception). If you don't have anything to say other than "you're contradicting canon SR" then you're of very little use in this discussion. Thanks anyway though. One question: in what book does it say that the Matrix cannot be a metaplane, and even if it were, James' ideas are silly? If you'll point me to that book I'll be more than happy to skim through it and see if it helps me any.;) |
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