 An odd possibility, given the new similarities... |
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 Apr 10 2006, 06:53 PM
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#76
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263  |
:eek: :eek: That basically is.
So now SR magic AND algebra? This is getting to be a rather tall order. :P P.S. Which book? All of them. Showing a negative is a long a difficult process. Go read. [edit]Hint: You can safely skip Canon Compannion i think.[/edit] |
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Apr 10 2006, 06:56 PM
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#77
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
that's exactly my point. a, b, c, and d all have a variety of possible different implications depending on the details of how they work. those implications, combined, are the implications of e. e doesn't exist in a vacuum, it is the sum of a through d, and a through d are undefined. what if there were dogs on pluto? what would their society be like, without bothering with questions like "how did they get there" or "what do they breathe"? |
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Apr 10 2006, 07:05 PM
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#78
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
If there were dogs on pluto their society would probably be much like dogs here (otherwise they wouldn't really be dogs). I assume they'd have to make some changes to account for the living conditions on pluto.
So what you're saying then is that the question opens up tons of possible repercussions, deepnding on the exact makeup of a, b, c, and d? Great! Care to list a few? blakkie: Thanks again, but you're still not being very helpful. And as I said, I'm not really looking for canon SR here. Let's say that all that back history didn't exist. Let's then say that someone manages to project themselves to the matrix (currently nobody knows how they do it any more than people know how technomancers do their thing). What would happen? I understand it's a difficult concept for you, especially given your apparent confusion when faced with something as simple as algebra, but I'd love to see you try and answer the question without throwing up the "it doesn't work that way" walls. |
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Apr 10 2006, 07:15 PM
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#79
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
rescinded
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Apr 10 2006, 07:16 PM
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#80
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Alternative question:
Let's say I want to introduce something that can enter the matrix, perhaps an awakened accountant monkey or soemthing similar. Now let's assume that the monkey has magical abilities (innate spells and so forth). What sorts of things would I have to look out for, and what possibilities exist for what the monkey could do while in the matrix? Note, again, I couldn't care less if there are no matrix capable monkeys in canon SR. I also couldn't care less if there are references to monkeys and the matrix being incompatible, although I'd like to know the references, as at some point it'll have to be decided how the monkey got that way. |
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Apr 10 2006, 07:17 PM
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#81
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
mfb: You apparently missed the "blakkie" tag. The crack was being made at blakkie, who has had no qualms about being insulting himself. The portion fo the post directed at you ended after "Care to list a few?"
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Apr 10 2006, 07:21 PM
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#82
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
okay. you've done that kind of thing before, so i've learned to expect it.
i, personally, despise the idea of otaku (yes, OTAKU!) being magical in nature. moreover, i'm not very happy with what my preciousss otaku have been turned into. so pontificating on the specific possibilities of the technomancer-as-magician concept doesn't really interest me. |
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Apr 10 2006, 07:26 PM
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#83
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I don't start the insults, and so far you've kept things civil. :)
If it doesn't interest you, why participate in a thread about it? |
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Apr 10 2006, 07:26 PM
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#84
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Azalon tried to warn you. I tried to warn you. You are going to where there is noone to help. You ARE asking for canon because you are asking what in the implications to canon SR Magic, technology, and society. Canon is the context. The "help" you seem to want, beaming a huge chunk of knowledge into your brain without you putting in the effort to read, just ain't going to happen. |
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Apr 10 2006, 07:32 PM
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#85
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Tried to warn me about what? Vague "the board has gone there" stuff isn't a warning, it's a Cassandra Complex waiting to happen. Heck, you didn't even supply a link, just an off the cuff comment about this being a silly path.
Sorry, I should have been more specific. By "canon" I meant historical canon, not the rules themselves. Obviously some rules interactions will be necessary. And again, if you don't want to help (note, I'm not looking for ahuge chunk of knowledge beamed to my head, but a few posts on what might happen) then why do you bother posting in a thread about it? I think it's obvious by now that you telling me "it ain't so" has not nor will change the fact that I'm curious. |
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Apr 10 2006, 07:39 PM
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#86
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
You've been helped. You just don't like the answer and the effort you might have to expend to get all that you want, so now you are dumping on the messengers whining that you didn't get any help. That lands you squarely in the ungrateful tit catagory in my books. THE END |
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Apr 10 2006, 07:43 PM
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#87
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Your "help" consisted of "we've already been there," "what if D-O-G spelled "cat?," and "go read every SR book ever written." Thanks again for your help!
FIN |
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Apr 11 2006, 08:59 PM
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#88
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Ok, first off, let me disclaim myself by saying that I do not buy the idea the idea that the Matrix is a Metaplane or that Technos are Mages, ect...
But, assuming for a moment that the next Manaspike causes the matrix to ascend into a True Metaplane, then I think the following Insanities would follow. (1) Astral Space would get much, much more cluttered, as Wireless Transmissions, ect gained Astral Sigs much like spells. (2) Magic becomes more difficult, as strong wireless fields equates into background counts. (3) Technomacers and Mages would cease to exist, instead becoming Techo-Mages. (4) The Matrix would no longer be safe or perhaps not even usable at all by Mundanes. (5a) Magic now becomes possible in Space, as Wireless Tranmissions becomes the new 'Mana Field' instead of the Giasphere. OR (5b) Wireless Transmissions and computers start to break up and become useless outside the Giasphere. |
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Apr 11 2006, 09:52 PM
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#89
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
The Matrix wouldn't be astral space, so anything happening in it shouldn't affect astral space any more than whatever strange occurrences happen in the other metpalanes make magic harder. Perhaps some leakage could occur in particularly strong (or weak) spots. Maybe every time the Azzies drop some major blood magic their network goes down. :)
"Hey! You got your power bolt in my IC!" "You got your IC in my power bolt!" |
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Apr 11 2006, 10:05 PM
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#90
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
I disagree, because even as a Metaplane the Matrix is still being generated by devices that exist on the Physical Plane, and we know that bleed-through does exist between the Physical and the Astral, so I believe that special rules would apply in this case. *winks*
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Apr 11 2006, 10:06 PM
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#91
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
True. Thanks for the food for thought and the lack of pointless flames! :)
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Apr 11 2006, 10:21 PM
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#92
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Target Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 9-January 06 Member No.: 8,143 |
What about a few insanities that are "positives" rather than negatives? Say the matrix becomes a metaplane? Who's to say that the Technomancers won't be able to produce physical effects with programs? "Magic" as we now know it could exit stage left and be assimilated by the Techies. The Astral and The Matrix would be one and the same place, and you could load up your flamethrower program to roast the corp secs while disarming a data bomb on the paydata! :wobble: The software industry would be booming i reckon, there's big :nuyen: to be made in selling manabolt (techbolt?) programs. :nuyen: :nuyen: ;) |
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Apr 12 2006, 04:18 AM
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#93
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
Bending the matrix to my will
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Apr 12 2006, 04:30 AM
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#94
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
So you're saying that if the matrix were a metaplane somehow Russian kampgrounds in America would take over? :)
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Apr 12 2006, 04:37 AM
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#95
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
oh good UT weenies getting 'magic' powers
"Stop CAMPING my BEDROOM!" |
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Apr 12 2006, 04:47 AM
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#96
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
My god! I get it now. It has been staring me in the face ever since SR4 came out but I just got it.
Neo is a technomancer!! That is how he was able to see stop the machines with his mind and how he was able to see them even when he was blind. It all makes perfect since now. Thank you, Fanpro. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I understand now. |
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Apr 12 2006, 04:51 AM
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#97
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Do not try to hack the drone, simply realize that there is no drone.
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Apr 12 2006, 06:18 AM
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#98
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 8-April 06 From: My dorm room Member No.: 8,438 |
This got me thinking: For much of the history of the Fifth World, "magic" and "science" were seen as the same thing. It wasn't until the Scientific Revolution that the two paths began to diverge, and rules based on observation and experimentation began to be seen as different from beliefs based on traditional lore and intuition. What if the paths of magic and science are curving back towards each other in the Sixth World? I'm not saying it's necessarily so, but it's an interesting idea to ponder. EDIT: And once again, I shall quote SR4:
The fact that the 'Awakened otaku' theory is the last one mentioned seems very telling to me. . . .
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Apr 12 2006, 07:55 AM
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#99
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
I can't help but notice that everybody seems to think they understand the realm of magic, and they accept (without question) theories such as the Gaeacentric view of the manasphere and the Mayan Long Count / Ebb-and-flow-of-mana interpretation of the cycle of magic.
Surely the Matrix and its rules are something rather more concrete. Yet in this discussion (which personally I enjoy when it gets constructive), people would rather make the Matrix conform to their theories of magic than the other way around. I blame Niels Bohr. ;) |
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Apr 12 2006, 12:34 PM
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#100
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
That's because to anyone who knows the slightest thing about computers or computer networking "it's magic" has always been the only explination for the matrix that makes even the tinniest bit of sense.
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