Recoil Compensation: Moses comes down the mountain, Don't make me grind up and feed it to U Options

[hobgoblin]

by the looks of it, yes...

[Cochise]

*hmm* Looks like Rob should take another look at his own rules ...

The firing character can choose to fi re a narrow burst or
a wide burst, each described below. Both use up 3 bullets. The
first burst fired in an Action Phase inflicts a –2 recoil modifier,
the second inflicts an additional –3 recoil (neutralized by recoil
compensation, if any).

[Slacker]

[mintcar]

The more targets you fire at the less recoil you get? Naaa. Could we please get a reason for this? Since we have some bursts that take a simple action and some that take a complex, it would be easier and more streamlined to have all recoil for a phase stack, and recoil compensation count only once. If you have 4 recoil comp on a full auto weapon, you could fire on 3 targets with 3 short bursts with -1 to the second and -5 to the third, or you could fire at one target with a long burst with -5. Now instead you get no recoil at all just because you choose 3 targets? Rob! why did you decide to make it screwy and unfair instead? Am I missing something here?

<edit> Even if above problem does not exist, because recoil applies to each action, it would be awsome if you could just keep track of how many rounds you fired and how much recoil comp you spent countering it in order to find out what modifier you get. Now instead I have to think in layers. I don´t want to think when I play RPG´s! mfb got that out of me long ago :P

[Lord Ben]

Except that it applies to each action, not to each target. Since firing 3rds at 3 people is a complex action you get it once. However if you took two simple actions like a short and a long it would apply twice.

[hobgoblin]

ugh, now i understand why in SR2 and 3 the previously compensated recoil "magicaly" reapeared on later bursts...

so, select number of targets and number of rounds fired. apply recoil comp to all rounds fired as one group. apply uncompensated recoil on all attack tests?

problem here is that it kinda makes no sense that recoil for rounds fired at the third target should apply for the test towards target one and two.

[mintcar]

[Lord Ben]

Because of game mechanics, that's why! :) Seriously, the game mechanic alternative is not to be able to specifically target multiple individuals with full auto bursts.

[mintcar]

What about the alternetive were recoil comp is always counted per phase instead of per action? Easier to keep track and more consistent. I´m contemplating another house rule. Off course that would mean you would need 5 points of recoil comp to be able to reliably fire two short bursts. And increasing the efficiency of recoil comp would make full auto much more dangerous. So I think that this is really not an option anyway... O well.

I´m going to drop this now. Because I realize that the reason for it being the way it is is that when you fire multiple times the target gets to resist multiple times. It´s all about ballance. Pitty you have to do all that layered thinking in the name of ballance, but what´re ya gonna do? :)

[Dashifen]

Not sure why you see it as layered thinking. If you have 3 recoil compensation, you compensate for 3 recoil every time you pull the trigger.

[mintcar]

..then you apply the uncompencated recoil too. It´s one more layer than you would have if the total recoil whas the amount of rounds fired and the total compensation was on your character sheet. There´s plenty of other modifiers to keep track of you know. I´m not fond of that stuff.

[blakkie]

[hobgoblin]

can work, if one makes a single attack roll for all targets, while they still get seperate defense rolls.

thing is tho that unless it got removed in SR4, normal sweeps waste ammo between targets, smartlinked weapons do not. therefor one can say that when using smartlink its 3 seperate attacks...

[Shadow_Prophet]

[hobgoblin]

so, if i have 2 targets and 4 RC, then decide to attack both of them with 3 rounds in a complex action then i get 0 recoil on first and 2 recoil on second as i have yet to use up all my recoil. but if i only have 2 RC i get 1 recoil on first and 4 recoil on second?

[Clyde]

OK. So recoil works like this?
The first bullet fired on your turn is always free.
Each bullet after that imposes a -1 modifier, which is cumulative.
However, recoil compensation applies once per *action* to reduce the modifier.
THUS
Shots penalty
1
2 -1
3 -2
4 -3
5 -4
6 -5
7 -6
8 -7
9 -8
10 -9

So, firing three round bursts the penalties are as follows:
RC First Burst Second Burst
1 -1 (2-1=1) -3 (3+1-1=3)
2 -0 (2-2=0) -1 (3-2=1)
3 -0 (2-3) -0 (3-3=0)

[Shadow_Prophet]

[Raizer]

[Slacker]

Said example on page 143 says "the extra -3 recoil reduces his pool to 4". Since his pool was 6 for the first shot, there is obviously some recoil compensation involved.

[hades]

[Slacker]

You are forgetting the 1 point of uncompensated recoil from the first shot. You don't suffer a penalty for all three bullets on the first burst, but it still exists.

That uncompensated recoil is transfered to the second burst. Combine that with the -3 recoil from the second burst itself and you get -4 recoil. The two points of RC knock that down to a -2 modifier.

Thus the dice pool of 6 from the first burst is reduced to 4 for the second burst.

[Shadow_Prophet]

[hades]

[CrimsonHawk]

see second post

[CrimsonHawk]

I have a question about recoil in a drone for instance it has 3IP with an IWN with 6 comp so in full burst is soaked by the gun and the drone takes the neg for the next 2 shots or does it work like 3rd edition where its halved then applied or is it like veh where there is none?