With solid recoil compensation i'm not sure what the reasoning you'd have for using FA 10 rounds over the 9 rounds of Long Burst-Short Burst. Maybe one less roll so you only need to burn 1 point of Edge to up them both? But with recoil comp the former gives -5 die recoil, the later nada recoil.

But ya, at least they added Wide-Narrow to change that wierdness of what firing a burst did.

Ya, probably why they didn't describe it well. Most of the people involved had SR3 stuff left in their head that filled in the holes.

That actually makes more sense to me, as you are already slightly off-balance as you squeeze the trigger (virtual or mechanical) a second time.

A moose once bit my sister....

Mind you, moose bites can be pretty nasty....

What is the recoil comp of a Gas Vent III in SR4??

There is leftover recoil. Any uncompensated recoil from the first burst is also added to the second. The only real change from SR3 to SR4 (outside of substituting dice mods for TNs) is that recoil compensation applies fully to each burst.

The example he is giving is of firing two bursts of 3 shots each, using a weapon with Gas Vents III which gives you 3 points of RC.

So the first burst would normally have a -2 modifier because of recoil, but the Gas Vent III compensates for that complete. So there is no left over recoil.

And then the the second burst would normally have a -3 modifier because of recoil, but in SR4 you apply the RC from the Gas Vent III to this second burst.

Thus Gas Vent III means that you never have to worry about Recoil when using 3 shot bursts.

That is one way of interpretting this, but personally I would say that with a Full Burst being a single Complex Action, recoil only takes care of the first three shots. Your pulling the trigger once and holding it down through out the 10 shots, you just treat it as three bursts for the purposes of damage.

And that recoil increases for the second burst. You could interpret the rules as saying recoil increases by 1 for each time you pull the trigger (first short burst -2, second -3). That is, each time you "reset" your recoil comp, the starting recoil increases by one, then you apply the uncompensated recoil from the last shot/shots then you apply recoil comp, THEN you have your modifier. Or you could put it as Rob did , each round in an action phase imposes -1 recoil eccept the first.

(They did manage to screw up 3rd grade math in the example on page 143 )

What rob is saying is that part about "(neutralized by recoil compensation)" applies to each recoil modifier. First it neutralizes the -2 recoil from the first burst, then it neutralizes the -3 recoil from the second burst.

I suspect your interpretation is as confused as mine.

It's one pull of the trigger, so one recoil penalty (and one application of the recoil compensation) to the entire complex action. IMO

Well 3 seperate attacks or one. It does not matter. Read the first scentence.

Each action. not each part of a action. Not each target. Not each time i think my character might be pulling the trigger. Not each set of bullets. But infact each action.

What you're talking about takes one complex action. Thus despite fireing upon 3 different targets, you still have only taken ONE action and thus recoil comp only applies ONCE.

Not that difficult to understand.

If you're firing at two targets with a complex full auto action one gets a short burst, the other a long burst.

If you're firing at 3 targets it counts as 3 short bursts.

Lets use the thought of recoil comp of 4.

Two Targets:

For sake of argument we'll assume the first target gets the short burst, and the second target takes the long burst.

-Target one has no recoil penalty to the attack as only 2 would be accrued.

-Target two has a recoil penalty of 4 (6 -2 remaining recoil comp)

Three Targets:

-Target one has no recoil penalty to the attack as only 2 would be accrued.

-Target two has a recoil penalty of 1 (3 -2 remaining recoil comp)

-Target three has a recoil penalty of 4 (3 from this burst + 1 uncomponsated)


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There we go simple enough lets go with only 2 points of recoil comp.

Two Targets:

For sake of argument again target one will recieve the short burst.

-Target one has no recoil penalty to the attac as only 2 would be accrued.

-Target two has a recoil penalty of 6 as there is no more recoil componsation left.

Three Targets:

-Target one has no recoil penalty to the attack as only 2 would be accrued.

-Target two has a recoil penalty of 3 as there is no more recoil componsation left.

-Target three has a recoil penalty of 6 (3 from this burst + 3 uncomponsated)

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And there we have it folks. How recoil works with your examples of the full auto fire on multiple targets in a 1m area. Enjoy

Doesn't the example provided on p 143 of the rulebook contradict thsi statement? It shows clearly that while his first burst was fully compensated his second burst has no additional compensation at all and his pool goes down by 3.

What kind of recoil compensation?

As the weapon's recoil compensation amounts to 2, a dice pool of 4 does not make sense in any case. Either it should be 5 - in case you proceed according to the explanation given in Rob Boyle's Mail - or 3 - in case you do apply recoil compensation only once during a an action phase. The 4 is right out.

Independently of that the "extra -3 recoil" makes pretty much sense as long as you do apply the recoil compensation only once.

Please re-read the example at the start of this thread. There is no recoil for the first bullet ever.

There is no recoil from the first shot. The first (short) burst causes a -2 "recoil modifier"(!) and the recoil compensation reduces this "recoil modifier". There is absolutely no mentioning in the rules that the first shot of a burst would have any special effect on subsequent bursts.