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> If there are otaku, where are the miggers, Sounding board for new adept type
prettz
post Aug 26 2004, 06:30 PM
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Botch
"With the level of cyberware and common connections to machine and building I reckon its on the cusp. I've always seen cybermancy as a welding torch in terms of joining magic and tech, we're looking more for a needle and thread approach. As to obvious, we want any "magical" affects to be unseen, hence tackling it from an adept point of view. The "magical" effects are going to be limited to nervous system/senses emulating machine parameters only, much like the Otaku."

Perhaps it is my relative newbie-ism talking here, but an item like the VCR seems to advanced to emualte by magic (at this point in metahuman understanding) and espically to advance for a combination of magic and technology. That is point in the SR world (to me) it seems that magic and tech aren't meshing well, they only combine when someone slams them together like two trains.

Perhaps if the metahumans knowledge of magic increases then it might work, but your talking about replacing a system that taps into the brain and uses it to do millions of calculations without the user even knowing they are being done, and that is just a fraction of what a VCR does.

The main problem here is even if it does exist the 'migger' is still going to be subpar to a true rigger, who can input various implants to boost his overal ability (I don't member all the add-ons, but their in M&M). Finally the guy is going to need a implant, if the otaku need it these guys will to (I can't member what it is) which takes away from their Awakened status.
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Botch
post Aug 26 2004, 06:51 PM
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We picked "Magical Rigger" because we want to do it without VCR in a magic-like way. This is mainly because it different and rigging as an area that has traditionaly been underdeveloped.

I think we are now at the point where "magical" is used to been an inexplicable phenomia that does not have a mundane scientific explanation and not a direct correlation to the ability to manipulate mana flows.

As a thought, before I start work. What exactly are mana, magic and the planes. If totems and spirits are a reflection of reality mixed with belief existing in a metaphysical realm that is not entirely divorced from humanity perfception of reality, who is to say what is possible.

Various canon materials have made a few points.

Totems allow shamanic people to alter reality (cast magic)
AI can create people who can alter reality by mindpower alone (Otaku)
Voodoun exists along with Loa, etc. (Recent human belief affecting the planes)
Any sufficiently strong beliefs held by a sentient being can and will produce "magical" effects (Otaku, Voodoun, Christian Magic, etc)
Insect spirits are really very alien in their thinking and dissimilar to all other spirits
The Shedim
All awakened flora and forna manipulate mana
SOTA computing has never before existed in a rising mana field
Cybermancy exists

Why not a Ghost-in-the-Machine/Mater Mundi being (who isn't an AI) who's summonings are gremlins and the creatures it can commune with are machines?


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Kagetenshi
post Aug 26 2004, 06:59 PM
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QUOTE (Botch)
Totems allow shamanic people to alter reality (cast magic)

No guarantee of this. Other than the Insect totems and Spider, there's nothing proving that totems aren't just figments of the imagination.

~J
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Demonseed Elite
post Aug 26 2004, 07:07 PM
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QUOTE
Why not a Ghost-in-the-Machine/Mater Mundi being (who isn't an AI) who's summonings are gremlins and the creatures it can commune with are machines?


Mainly just because the rules/canon don't support it. That said, there's no reason you can't do it in your own game. It's just hard to find a launching-off point from the canon, because there really is nothing in that area.

As far as rigger/otaku, I could hypothetically think of an otaku-type that was "different" from normal people in that its neural impulses were more adept at reacting to "remote senses" as opposed to its own body. This seriously strange individual could use just a datajack (or wireless connection) to "rig" vehicles, drones, etc. and would not suffer the usual penalties for doing so, and in fact could get the reaction and initiative bonuses normally associated to riggers with VCRs. However, there isn't much they could boost with their abilities, that I can think of, except those reaction and initiative bonuses. There just isn't much in the way of customizing rigging, except for the vehicles themselves. Which would use the same customizing rules that riggers use.

Such a thing doesn't really exist in canon right now, but I suppose it's possible along the same lines otaku are. They'd be really odd though, because while otaku have bizarre higher brain functions as a result or cause of their special decking abilities, rigging is purely lower brain. I'd imagine this would make these rigger-otaku extremely instinctual, almost animalistic, and possibly aggressive. There'd also be more risk involved; just like otaku are more vulnerable to attacks in the Matrix because of their personal connection to it, these would be more vulnerable to damage on their things they control, because of their close personal connection to it. If a drone they control is destroyed, it could even be fatal.

Interestingly enough, in a Shadowrun conspiratorial sense, these types of experiments might work better with subjects that already possess more powerful lower-brain functions than humans, like predatory animals...
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GunnerJ
post Aug 26 2004, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE (Botch)
Nice idea there GunnerJ, but that is just a good driver power with lots of additional sub-clauses not a rigger substitute.

Well, I never intended it to be a substitute.
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Ancient History
post Aug 26 2004, 07:22 PM
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Nobody liked my idea, eh? Works for otaku too!
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prettz
post Aug 26 2004, 07:39 PM
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This is what I came up with as a starting point, but I don't know how it will work or if it will even work but here's it is.

Allocating Attributes
????????????????

Allocating Skills
As driving is the basic form of travel it is the primary skill the character will learn. As a result they must start with a Car skill no less than 6.

Channels
Similar to the Otaku’s channels these special skills act as some of the riggers implants and abilities.

Encryption
This skill works by allowing the being to naturally encrypt their signals to the various drones. Note that the characters encryption skill only applies in encrypting the signals that go form the character to the drone and nothing else.

Decryption
This skill works by allowing the being to decrypt various encrypted signals that are used by riggers. To use this skill the character must physically plug into the system to use the decryption skill.

Echoes
However these beings are created they somehow are able to create an echo of what a rigger can actually do. These echoes emulate the various things that the VCR and other implants that riggers use to show their rigging abilities.

Response: (Intelligence + Willpower)/2 + (Intelligence/2) D6
Control Pool: Reaction + Willpower
Drone Control: (Intelligence) x 1.5
ECCM: (Charisma) x1.5
Flux: (Willpower)

ASSIST Converter
Like the Otaku these beings require an ASSIST Converter to translate data to and from their datajack. It is in the (Man and Machine pg. 19)

Cyberware
The only cyberware they need is a datajack and an internal radio. The datajack uses the ASSIST Converter to translate the data of ‘rigging’ and radio is used to communicate with the various drones. Note that the being cannot control more drones than he has channels of radio devoted to their drones, or to their Drone Control ability, whichever is lower.


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Edward
post Aug 26 2004, 11:47 PM
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I don’t see the need for it or the desire.

Your groupings are flawed the way I see things.

More realistically you have.

Direct combat, achievable by chrome or adept powers less well with spells
Stealth, by tech or magic.
Matrix action, your choice of Decker (tech) or Otaku (they often see themselves as magical)
Distributed control combat, rigger or conjurer

Spirits (or elementals) are the magical counterparts to a riggers drones.

While there would be nothing unbalancing about the idea if done correctly. It is not necessary to maintain the fact that any broad category of effect can be achieved by both science and magic.

If you where going to do it look at how the Otaku has special attributes that mimic every aspect of a deck and skills that are the equivalent of programs. Now for your rigger/Otaku create special attributes that mimic every aspect of VCR and a remote control deck (they will still need driving skills) the difficult question is how the drone will reseve the signal. Unless it is modified it needs to pick up radio waves to reseve commands. Will the rigger/Otaku’s braqin emit these radio waves directly or will he need to plug into some for of transmitter.

Edward
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post Aug 27 2004, 12:47 AM
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QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
Such a thing doesn't really exist in canon right now, but I suppose it's possible along the same lines otaku are. They'd be really odd though, because while otaku have bizarre higher brain functions as a result or cause of their special decking abilities, rigging is purely lower brain. I'd imagine this would make these rigger-otaku extremely instinctual, almost animalistic, and possibly aggressive. There'd also be more risk involved; just like otaku are more vulnerable to attacks in the Matrix because of their personal connection to it, these would be more vulnerable to damage on their things they control, because of their close personal connection to it. If a drone they control is destroyed, it could even be fatal.

That is the most logical reason yet (well, logical and non-incendiary) why such a concept is simply absurd.
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Ancient History
post Aug 27 2004, 12:50 AM
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Why do people not listen to me? All an otaku needs is a Rigger Emulation Module and a Complex Form of a Remote Control EMulation Utility! It's canon! Legal! Makes sense! Well, at least as much sense as otaku. It's cheap! Get a cyberarm, you can install the emulation module, signal booster, remote control deck and a fingertip datajack with ASIST converter.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Aug 27 2004, 12:56 AM
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No one listens because your answer is too easy. They want new rules, new ways to munch, and new reasons to make blind quadrapalegics!
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Ancient History
post Aug 27 2004, 01:13 AM
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Yeaaah...
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Herald of Verjig...
post Aug 27 2004, 01:16 AM
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However, I will try the psuedo-rigging otaku next time I want to play a vehicle minded character. It should be more fun than the conjuring adept horse shaman who uses spirits to move his empty chassis of a car.
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prettz
post Aug 27 2004, 03:39 AM
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Well at that the eco-terrorists would love that alternate way of travel, but honestly a flying spirit would probably be better than a mere horse spirit.

Edit: bad grammar
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mfb
post Aug 27 2004, 12:58 PM
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i've been using the Rigger Emu Module / Remote Control complex form combo for years. well, a year. it works great.
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