Pornomancers - How do they work?, Or - Why do Cyberbreasts cost Essence? Options

[PresentPresence]

So I've heard of Pornomancers, and from a Google trip I basically got the idea that it was a build from SR3 that rolled up to 50 dice for social tests (and I really wanted to say over 9,000). I started wondering, "How can we do that in SR4?" So I tried. Also, if anyone knows what techniques the original gangsters used to make these beasts, it would be illuminating.
Note- this is for a 400 BP build and I omitted the non-social factors. Assume -35 BP of Negative Qualities. Also, let it be noted that my build has 10 Gymnastics Dodge dice.

Race:
Elf

Qualities:
Adept
Mentor Spirit (Gryphon)
First Impression
Linguist
Class III Surge
Glamour
Vorneronasal Organ
Symbiosis - -10 BP

Attributes:
Charisma 8/9 (11/13)
Magic 5/6 (4/5)

Skills:
Influence 4

Magic:
Kinesics 4
Linguistics
Commanding Voice
Improved Leadership 2
Enthralling Performance (Singing)
Voice Control

Bioware: 1 Ess worth
Tailored Phermones 3 - .6 Ess
Genetic Optimization (Charisma) - .2 Ess
Enhanced Pheremone Receptors - .1 Ess

Gear:
Doses of eX

All in all, that makes for, by my calculations, around 27-30 Dice for social tests. Here's how:
4 (Influence) + 8 (Charisma) + 3 (Glamour) + 1 (Voice Control *1) + 2 (Vorneronasal Organ) + 4 (Kinesics) + 3 (Tailored Pheremones) + 2 (Enhanced Pheremone Receptors) [+ 2 (Improved Leadership) + 2 (Gryphon)] {+ 1 (eX) + 1 (Symbiosis *2) + 1 (First Impression)} = 27 {30} Influence (31 {34} Leadership)
*1 Voice Modulation bioware from Augmentation suggests that, at GM's discretion, an owner's social tests may be modified by + 1 if a listener can hear and understand the speaker, and Voice Modulation bioware and cyberware are exactly the same as an adept's Voice Control, if not inferior, IMHO.
*2 I believe the Symbiosis description suggests that a "victim" may be granted positive social modifiers with those who live in the area that the user is attuned to.
The Leadership dice are used when using the Commanding Voice adept power.

Amidoinitrite?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I believe the current Cap for the Pornomancer in 4th Edition is 51 Dice... Cannot Remember where the writeup is at, But Glyph could probably point it out to you...

[Kagetenshi]

So I've heard of Pornomancers, and from a Google trip I basically got the idea that it was a build from SR3 that rolled up to 50 dice for social tests

That one is pure SR4 (though the madness introduced with SotA:64 allowed broadly similar builds, the focus was on insane TN mods rather than huge die pools).

~J

[Jizmack]

Well, ok, but the targeted character or NPC would have to first be sexually attracted to the Pornomancer: Gender (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (obviously), Physique (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) (some like a lot of back), Fetish (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (the original role-playing), etc…
Otherwise, those skills and modifiers could be mostly useless.

[Yerameyahu]

That's true. This has always been much more a numeric exercise than usable character. Even beyond that, there are generally limits to what a social test can accomplish, regardless of hits. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's a lot of GM calls.

[Karoline]

I though pornomancer made use of commanding voice to make people his/her slave, regardless of any of those factors.

[Yerameyahu]

That's not really what that power does, though.

[tagz]

I always looked at the build as "wasted extra effort".

While not true of all tests, generally speaking with social tests winning by 1 net hit won't be all that different from winning with 10 net hits, mostly the difference will come in the form of GM description but not actual outcome. So to me, it seemed a waste to build up such a insanely high pool when one could easily spread out to other areas.

[Yerameyahu]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's the math. Optimization is for the challenge first, for breaking the game *second*.

[Mongoose]

Yeah, but a lot of the maxed out pornomancer dice were effectively situational bonuses which applied to an unlikely situation. Sort of like giving a melee character the assumption of superior ground (only with lots more dice involved). You don't need to be a street samurai to shoot fish in a barrel...

I think a "face-o-mancer" build that focused on never (or very rarely in actual play) having negative situational mods would be a lot more useful in actual play. A lack of negative mods is just as good as getting bonus dice, right? That probably means being a human instead of an elf (or god forbid, dryad) among other things. Although in some cases the negative mods are to tiny to worry about- -3 for racism doesn't matter so much if being an elf means you have an extra 4 charisma dice.
Bonus- you might be able to take the Blandness quality. Verbal Kint much?

[Yerameyahu]

Preaching to the choir. I'm just pointing out that it's about making big numbers, not making playable characters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Glyph]

I though pornomancer made use of commanding voice to make people his/her slave, regardless of any of those factors.

No, you're thinking of this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

The pornomancer was essentially a dice pool exercise, to see how many dice one could get for seduction, kind of like the ultimate climber. Some of the less extreme ones are actually playable, but they are still a lot more limited than a traditional face, who can blend in the social scene, has lots of contacts, and is good at noticing things and digging up information. I did a more traditional face here, and despite having significantly less dice to toss, I still think it would be a more effective build in many situations.

[Makki]

So I've heard of Pornomancers, and from a Google trip I basically got the idea that it was a build from SR3 that rolled up to 50 dice for social tests (and I really wanted to say over 9,000). I started wondering, "How can we do that in SR4?" So I tried. Also, if anyone knows what techniques the original gangsters used to make these beasts, it would be illuminating.
Note- this is for a 400 BP build and I omitted the non-social factors. Assume -35 BP of Negative Qualities. Also, let it be noted that my build has 10 Gymnastics Dodge dice.

Race:
Elf ->Dryad

Qualities:
Adept
Mentor Spirit (Gryphon) ->seductress
First Impression
Class III Surge ->II
Glamour ->metagenetic improvement Charisma

Attributes:
Charisma 8/9 (11/13) ->10/10 (13/15)
Magic 5/6 (4/5)

Skills:
Influence 4 ->Con (Seduction) 6 (9) (+2)

Magic:
Kinesics 4 ->3 is max
Improved Leadership 2 ->con 3
->Heightened Concentration from DG to ignore negative modifiers due to hostility

Bioware: 1 Ess worth
Tailored Phermones 3 - .6 Ess
Genetic Optimization (Charisma) - .2 Ess
Enhanced Pheremone Receptors R3 - .1 Ess
->moderate Biosculpting - .1 Ess

Gear:
Doses of eX
->Emotitoy R6

Cha 13 + skill 9 +spec 2 + eX 1 +kinesics 3 + dryad 3 + emotitoy 6 + EPR 2 +mentor 2 + first imp 2 +Biosculpting 2= 45 with no negative modifiers.

initiate with your first Karma for Cognition for these last two points of Charisma
plz gimme more

[Yerameyahu]

Honestly, I can't imagine Heightened Concentration affecting modifiers like *that*, but it's just another RAW failing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Like Cover, that's probably something that should be shifted into a bonus to the defender, but then you lose the chance of Glitching.

[hobgoblin]

The best part about the pornomancer was the description of such a being humping air to do his thing.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...st&p=545898

[toturi]

The best part about the pornomancer was the description of such a being humping air to do his thing.

Air humping, the new extreme sport.

[Glyph]

My favorite part was when Frackula named it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

"33 dice is nice, but 34 dice is kind of edging into munchkin territory, ya know?"
Ah, those innocent days...

[Mäx]

I believe the current Cap for the Pornomancer in 4th Edition is 51 Dice... Cannot Remember where the writeup is at, But Glyph could probably point it out to you...

I'm not Glyph, but here's "my" latest version

Surged dryad adept with
Charisma 15(Metegenic Improvement (Charisma)+Genetic Optimization (Charisma)+ a friendly mage sustaining a force 10 Increase Charisma with 5 successes )
Aptitude Con
Con (Seduction) 7
National Fame
Tailored Pheromones 3
Enhanced Phermone Receptors 3
Vocal Range Enhancer
Improved Social Ability [Con] 3
Kinesics 3
Rating 6 emotitoy
Symbiosis

3+15+9+4+3+2+1+3+3+6+1= 50

[Kagetenshi]

A lack of negative mods is just as good as getting bonus dice, right?

No, it's worse—lack of negative mods is purely situational.

Speaking of which, this should work in the face of issues like attraction, etc. Otherwise you destroy the meaning of social skills in the game.

~J

[PresentPresence]

Woof, I missed out! Forgot about the 6 extra dice from the emotitoy. One question, though - why not Glamour? That adds three dice while ME only adds the one Charisma. I took the Voice Control power over the cyber/bioware because Commanding Voice says that your voice cannot be "amplified by technological means" or somesuch, and while bioware may not be "technological."

You guys are right, though, that my character would not be a very good face. My fluff idea consisted of the neighborhood cocktail singer whose club owner was very connected and very loyal. And male. And heterosexual. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Enthralling Performance/Commanding Voice to the crowd, and maybe they a throw a few extra new ones on the bar. I was thinking more along the lines of KOTOR's Battle Meditation, but, like, Sexy Meditation. I'm sure Bastila used that sometime anyway.

But looking at these, I can see that, yeah, Social Adepts can kick ass as faces. And Glyph, I like your character a lot, but I'm thinking of making a "sniffing" face with smell perception, using some of your build as a guide.

Thanks, all!

[Makki]

Woof, I missed out! Forgot about the 6 extra dice from the emotitoy. One question, though - why not Glamour? That adds three dice while ME only adds the one Charisma.

because we take both! surge dryad ftw

[Makki]

damn dp

[Mäx]

Woof, I missed out! Forgot about the 6 extra dice from the emotitoy. One question, though - why not Glamour? That adds three dice while ME only adds the one Charisma.

The Dryad already has glamour as a racial quality.

[Medicineman]

welll,hmmm Guys
You know that the Pool is capped by either 20 Dice or [nat Attr & Skill] X2 ?!!
so with the Dryad its[ 10 + 7 ]x2 = 34 Dice Max

with a Dance on the Cap
Medicineman

[Yerameyahu]

And in this case, the natural attribute is like 10, the skill is 7, so that's 34. Seems like enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)