 Possession FAQ, Answers to your possession questions |
  |
 Jan 19 2008, 12:40 PM
Post
#151
|
|||
|
Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300  |
I'm not an authority on this but I'll try to give my common sense answers and my understanding of the rules based on the FAQ: 1. Yes the mage can sustain spells before posession, but not cast new ones while posessed except when astrally projecting. 2. Yes, as the dual natured being is present on both planes at once. 3. Yes. 4. Yes, foci are still on when the mage astrally projects, and being posessed does not change this. He can also activate/deactivate them. 5. No direct access, although a spell cast on the mages body can still be sustained by a sustaining focus. 6. In theory I would say yes, but the mage would need to have friends summinging possession spirits to "practice" on. Most would not bother though. 7. Spells can be sustained from the Astral by spirits, possession or not. In fact, there is little else for possession spirits to do unless they possess the mage. his friends or an object. 8. Spirits have no natural armor, and against spells they only use half worn armor or item armor when possessing. Spells, weapon foci etc. are the achilles heel of spirits in general. 9. I don't think a mage can sustain a spell for a spirit, and unlike other powers the spirit follows the general rules for spellcasting. |
||
 |
 
|
||
|
Jan 19 2008, 11:39 PM
Post
#152
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
Hey I played a possession mage for the first time today (a Houngan). Great fun and good roleplay, although there was no combat and I only had an NPC possessed once. It was a great help to more or less discreetly possess a target and have him follow willingly to be subdued, captured and interrogated.
But an issue came up: Fluff. What does someone possessed feel? What visible signs are there, if any? Will a possessed man in a tavern make people scream and call Lone Star, or will just people think he is acting a bit odd, and that people do sometimes? It's bad enough that I've taken dancing and incantation geasa, I don't really need too flashy possession also. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 19 2008, 11:55 PM
Post
#153
|
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
depends on the force of the ghost i'd say . . weak ghost barely able to controll body might be having problems with exactly that, resulting in strange motions of the body it posesses . . but it'd be not very noticable if the people think he might be slotting or having had too much to drink . . a stronger ghost might give off some aura that makes people feel unomfortable close to the body in use but not know what it is they feel . . STRONG Ghosts will most likely have some physical clues . . like odd eye-colours(ok with cyber-eyes that's not much of a sign*g*) for example . . a healthy glow and somehow more fluid motions and maybe a little more bulky . . cocky and confident behaviour . . if people know the body does not act like that usually they will smell that something is wrong . .
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 19 2008, 11:58 PM
Post
#154
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
well, that actually went wrong then, FotD.
spirits, unless they have the realistic form power, are always clearly identifiable as spirits. nothing is explicitly mentioned as to what makes this so easy to tell, but it applies to both materialising and possessing spirits. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 20 2008, 12:01 AM
Post
#155
|
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
ah so there IS a rule about that . . would a ghost with the realistic form metahuman(let's say a Troll) be able to look like the Dwarf he just possessed without anyone noticing?
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 20 2008, 12:10 AM
Post
#156
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I may be mistaken, but I think only Ally Spirit get Realistic Form.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 20 2008, 12:27 AM
Post
#157
|
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Free Spirits don't? O.o
And of course we know Possession Magics do not get Ally Spirits right? |
|
|
|
|
Jan 20 2008, 12:36 AM
Post
#158
|
|||||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Dunno. Probably. :)
Sure they do. I was commenting more on the idea of a Possession Mage just calling up a random Spirit with that specific Power. Ally Spirits (and free Spirits as well) are another matter entirely, which prompted my comment. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 20 2008, 12:38 AM
Post
#159
|
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
okay . . seems like i have to reread street magic . . again *grumbles* <.<
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 20 2008, 12:49 AM
Post
#160
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Flesh Form Insect Spirits get Realistic Form. No other mention of it anywhere else in Street Magic other than in context with Allies and Free Spirits (and the Shadow Spirit, which confuses me).
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 20 2008, 02:29 AM
Post
#161
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
Thanks for pointing out this, although you are wrong. I just read the "spotting spirits" section of SM, and it explicitly says that materialized spirits are automatically identified, while possessing spirits are a bit harder to spot. The difficulty is the same as spotting spellcasting - theshold 6- spirits force. So people in the tavern would need 1 hit to see my force 5 possessed Lone Star Captain. His aide/bodyguard would surely succeed, the rest would probably be distracted and only perceptive characters would have noticed - i.e GM call. Armed with this knowledge i would probably have played that the aide would have spotted the spirit and called for backup. But as far as I know I might has well used a force 3 spirit for possessing the captain - not that great chance of success but alot less obvious. Threshold 3 on perception tests are actually fairly hard, even if many PCs have dice pools of 15+ in visual perception. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 20 2008, 02:54 PM
Post
#162
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 17-October 07 Member No.: 13,735 |
I did some looking through the tread and couldn't find an answer for this question.
What is the movement rate of a spirit that possessed a vessel? Some would say just the movement rate of the vessel. Since it has been said in this thread that a vessel that doesn't have moving components can't move when possessed. (ie. the possessed gun) But, what if it is a vessel that doesn't have it's own movement rate, but is capable of moving. For instance a possessed grocery cart or manikin? Or the reference to the spirit of the possessed car just rolling the wheels to save on gas. Does the car use the movement rate of the spirit? If they use do the movement rate of the spirit, 'which' movement rate do they use? For instance. A possession tradition air spirit. I assume the vessel doesn't fly, unless it has the ability as part of it's basic form. But, it if doesn't fly, does it use the 15/75 movement of the air spirit in ground movement? And what about possession Water Spirits? If a magician has his force 6 water spirit possess him and since he can swim, does he get the 30/75 swim movement rate of the possessing water spirit? And combining that with the using Guard (to keep from drowning) and the Movement power, he is gonna be blowing away previous water speed records... |
|
|
|
|
Jan 20 2008, 03:01 PM
Post
#163
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
I was just coming in to ask almost the same question, actually.
Also, how does engulf work with possession spirits? If a mage is possessed by a fire spirit, how does he engulf a target? It's easy to visualize a living column of flame engulfing someone, but much less easy to see how it would work with a metahuman with fiery eyes or the like... |
|
|
|
|
Jan 20 2008, 03:12 PM
Post
#164
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 17-October 07 Member No.: 13,735 |
hehe, seems we are on teh same wavelength, Feshy. An answer to your question is on page 100 of SM. It basically says the spirit doesnt have to drag the victim into itself, but just has to make melee contact with them. In your example, it would be like many supernatural and horror movies. The firey eyes guy would touch the target and the target would go up in flames, ie. get engulfed. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 20 2008, 06:01 PM
Post
#165
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 17-October 07 Member No.: 13,735 |
I see lots of folks reading this thread, but n one wants to touch the issue... LoL
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 20 2008, 06:36 PM
Post
#166
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
Regarding "spotting spirits", there's nothing in the rules about what a possessed character looks like or if there are any ways to modify that role.
p.102 says "Occasionally a possessing spirit’s nature manifests through the vessel in an effect similar to a shamanic mask (p. 168, SR4). Success not only notices the possessing/inhabiting spirit, but also delivers some clues as to what the spirit “really looks like." P. 95 has a little more detail and says "To notice a spirit possessing/inhabiting a vessel, an observer must make a Perception Test and beat a threshold of 6 – the spirit’s Force." If they are using their powers, they may be a little easier to spot: "At the gamemaster’s discretion, the use of the spirit’s powers may create an effect like a shamanic mask, adding a +2 dice pool modifier to the Perception Test." Spotters just get 6 minus spirit's force to spot the spirit in the person even if the possessed character is 10 miles down the street, hiding behind a curtain, wearing a trenchcoat sunglasses and hat, and standing deep in shadow. I've always taken the "traditional" approach and figured a possessed character could have an otherworldly voice ("THERE IS NO DANA, ONLY ZHUUL"), spectral eyes (Spawn), or (at higher force) more exotic effects like ectoplasmic wisps of shadow, writhing skin, and such. So by that paradigm, the possessed character gets perception mods to his concealment roll such as distance, shadow, heavy clothing, etc. Therefore the possessing character could conceal his nature (depending on what the GM says the "special effects" are of the possession) with a Physical Mask spell or even a mundane disguise. For example, an electronic speech synthesizer on the throat would conceal an otherworldly voice but wouldn't do anything to disguise transparent glowing skin. Hope this helps. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 20 2008, 10:16 PM
Post
#167
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
Oh yeah, I never though of using Physical Mask to conceal a spirit possessing someone, that was a nice idea :) As for the threshold, would threshold 0 or less always mean automatic to spot? Or would it be better just to give a bonus on the perception check instead per point of force over 5? In my case the possessed would have a different voice (deeper), often be using obscenities, laughing maniacly at times, a skeletal face... hmm anything else fits a Ghede spirit? I'm thinking Baron Samedi style here. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 20 2008, 10:25 PM
Post
#168
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
A Threshold of 0 requires one 'hit'. A Threshold of 1 requires two 'hits', or one 'net hit' beyond the Threshold. And so on. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 21 2008, 12:45 AM
Post
#169
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
Really? I thought threshold 1 meant you needed 1 hit to achieve success, not one net hit. This really changes everything, as everything becomes much harder. Then again, I can't seem to recall many threshold 0 tests in the book, the only ones I can recall is the spotting of firearms. Spotting "obvious" is threshold 1 in the perception table which is ridiculous... two hits on a perception test to spot something large and obvious? Hmm, just read the threshold rules in the BBB and it says threshold 1 means you need 1 hit... net hits just means you do it better. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 21 2008, 01:43 AM
Post
#170
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
It is interesting to note that the example (in pink) depicts only the hits exceeding the test as successes, whereas the text above it (in green) specifically states that hits equal to the Threshold are 'net hits'. They are not using the term 'net hits' to depict successes however, just grade of success. Other places in the book deal with the term meaning total hits over the threshold (as in Combat or Spellcasting, where the Threshold is set during the Opposed test, and only hits exceeding those of the target count as successes) . Hmmm. Pretty much every GM I have played under rules it as it is described in pink, but only considered those hits that exceed the Threshold (net hits) to be successes. Seems I have to have a talk with a couple of GMs. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 21 2008, 03:49 AM
Post
#171
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
Was this your attempt to avoid admitting failure while still not supporting your original claim? :P I think the text is fairly clear. Meeting the threshold means the test is successful, net hits adds to the flair. Opposed test are different since one of the sides need at least one net hit to overcome the other. For spells such as Improved Reflexes 2 hits are needed to have any effect, net hits increase the speed. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 21 2008, 05:37 AM
Post
#172
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Not quite. I do find it quite insulting though, that you would say I am doing either of those things. Clearly I admitted I was mistaken (failure? When did I fail? At what?), and therefore do not need to support my original claim. My post was an attempt (albeit maybe a poor one) to serve as an illustration as to why I am confused by the differing uses of 'net hits' in the book. But thanks! |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 21 2008, 12:33 PM
Post
#173
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 17-October 07 Member No.: 13,735 |
While folks are taking shots at each other, anyone want to take a crack at my query? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 21 2008, 12:55 PM
Post
#174
|
|||||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
Easy man I was just making fun, no personal insult intended. :) I couldn't easily read that you were mistaken though, only hinting at it ("may have to talk to GMs") Then again, this is not my primary language so excuse me. As for improved reflexes I did not mean game speed but rather initiative. ' Ravorbane, I think I would use the spirit movement if nothing else was available, even for water and air spirits. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Jan 21 2008, 01:04 PM
Post
#175
|
|||||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Shrug. I highlighted the quote you mentioned, and then went on and paraphrased the text, commenting on how the usage of the wording 'net hits' has (to my way of thinking anyway) a different meaning in other sections of the book. I did not contradict what you wrote at all. Seems clear to me (Your English is fine, so I ain't cutting you any slack there. ;) :D).
Yeah. You caught that just before I edited. I figured out what you meant while I was offline, and was hoping to catch it in time. Oops. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 30th January 2025 - 02:33 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.