May Chat transcript, for everyone who couldn't make it Options

[Tiger Eyes]

As far as rules questions and nit pick stuff, couldn't those things be posted prior to chat so devs had a chance to answer them on chat day? (Like "Why don't any rotor craft have sensors?")

We're toying with the idea of having people email in questions which we will ponder behind our curtains of doom, and then post answers - either in an official, updated list on SR4.com, or in a blog post, or maybe by writing the answers on scraps of paper, putting them in a balloon, and releasing it into the sky... (seriously, didn't you ever do that as a kid?)

[Stahlseele]

Kinda like an FAQ that gets updated regularly?

[Prime Mover]

So all the fans should tie a question to a balloon and whichever one that happens to land near a dev gets answered? Sounds iffy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[BishopMcQ]

Prime-The trick is to trace their cellphones, then drop all the balloons within a forty meter spread of their location. Enough red balloons in one area and they are bound to take notice.

[Ancient History]

Or spontaneously break out into song. 99 Luftballons/Auf ihrem Weg zum Horizont...

[Stahlseele]

Yeah. We will NEVER live that one down, now that it's in Watchmen of all movies . .

[Wesley Street]

We're toying with the idea of having people email in questions which we will ponder behind our curtains of doom, and then post answers - either in an official, updated list on SR4.com, or in a blog post, or maybe by writing the answers on scraps of paper, putting them in a balloon, and releasing it into the sky... (seriously, didn't you ever do that as a kid?)

Yes, and my balloon made it from Indianapolis to the middle of Iowa. I think it was one of the farthest traveling that year in elementary school.

If you're genuinely courting chat suggestions, I have four:

1. Space them out a bit more. Perhaps one every 60 days instead of one every 30. A thirty-day cycle isn't a particularly long time and if there's more of a buffer it may allow for interest to gather more steam.
2. Pick a very specific topic for discussion. If left open, chats inevitably fall into the typical "When is XYZ being released?/We can't tell you, silly goose" back and forth. So for June you could discuss "Everything You Wanted to Know About Organized Crime but Were Afraid to Ask Because It Might Get Your Legs Broken", "Magic and Mysteries of the 6th World: Hosted by Ancient History" for August, "Shadowrun Novels: The Good, The Bad and The Goblinizing" for October, et cetera. Keep it focused. Being in character isn't a topic, it's just a method of communication. And on that...
3. Limit the IC chats to once or twice a year. Many find them fun but I'm more interested in straight info, honest candor and tips rather than online role-playing.
4. If a topic doesn't lend itself to a back-and-forth discussion it may be better left as a blog post than a chat topic.

That's all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[The Jake]

You know what happens when we give release dates? We miss them, and then people get crankier than my 4 year old when he's lost his favorite droid. Hence, release dates come when books are physically in our warehouse. Anything else just gets us in trouble. So, discussing release dates is not going to happen. Keeping folks up to date on project progress -- well, we're attempting to do so via our blog posts on SR4.com. But again, nothing concrete. No saying, "in this quarter" or "this will be next" because you know what? It changes. An important piece of artwork doesn't get delivered. We learn the printer has eighteen billion other projects before ours, and it'll take an extra month. A giant snowstorm cripples transportation networks in the Pacific NW. Someone's kid gets pnemonia, they get behind on their project, and suddenly a different project ends up being ready for layout first. Stuff happens, dates get missed, and fans riot... (okay, maybe not riot. Whine. Moan. Send mean emails. That sort of thing.)

Hence, no release dates.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oh I understand the why. Also, given the track history of sticking to said schedule, I can also understand why you don't do it. Can't say I blame you.

Do I still think you should do it anyway? Hell yes.

- J.

[The Jake]

We're toying with the idea of having people email in questions which we will ponder behind our curtains of doom, and then post answers - either in an official, updated list on SR4.com, or in a blog post, or maybe by writing the answers on scraps of paper, putting them in a balloon, and releasing it into the sky... (seriously, didn't you ever do that as a kid?)

O.o

I'm in with that. That would work so much easier with my schedule/timezone.

- J.

[martindv]

So for June you could discuss "Everything You Wanted to Know About Organized Crime but Were Afraid to Ask Because It Might Get Your Legs Broken"

I could have sworn that was what yesterday's chat was supposed to be.

[Ancient History]

Yeaaaah...

[Prime Mover]

On my wish list is blog posts when a project goes off to the printer. Let's me know I should increase my anxiety level and reserve some cash in my budget.

[SincereAgape]

I don't think the chats are broken. The fans who attend seem to have a good time.

A guideline on how to make the chat more productive would be nice. Simply preface the chat by stating we will not be taking questions regarding release dates and rules might do. The great thing about the CGL Shadowrun team is that they are very accessible via the dumpshock forums. Don't know how many times Adam, Jennifer, AH, Dunner, etc have taken time during the week to join our threads and chime in on questions. Also, each creator has been very kind in responding to creative questions via PM.

The idea of pinning questions to a balloon and letting them fly into the sky is nice as well (A wave of nostalgia just hit. That was a fun event during Kindergarten.).

[Adam]

Oh I understand the why. Also, given the track history of sticking to said schedule, I can also understand why you don't do it. Can't say I blame you.

Do I still think you should do it anyway? Hell yes.

Let's just be clear: "No dates until Street Date" has been Catalyst Game Labs policy for all game lines since day one, and has served us very well so far. It's been more annoying the last few months because aside from PDF exclusives we've had a big gap in Shadowrun releases, but when the release schedule is ticking along nicely [as it had been up until January's Feral Cities], it served everyone really well.

What good is giving you a date that we aren't sure we can hit? Get you excited about something ... and then not have it available for you to have? Makes little sense. Just like I don't think teasing fans about a whole bunch of upcoming releases is a good idea: I don't want you to be too excited about something you can't buy and can't play with for 8 months. I want you to be excited about the NEXT thing you can buy and use. Anticipation is a good thing -- too much of it isn't.

[The Jake]

Let's just be clear: "No dates until Street Date" has been Catalyst Game Labs policy for all game lines since day one, and has served us very well so far. It's been more annoying the last few months because aside from PDF exclusives we've had a big gap in Shadowrun releases, but when the release schedule is ticking along nicely [as it had been up until January's Feral Cities], it served everyone really well.

What good is giving you a date that we aren't sure we can hit? Get you excited about something ... and then not have it available for you to have? Makes little sense. Just like I don't think teasing fans about a whole bunch of upcoming releases is a good idea: I don't want you to be too excited about something you can't buy and can't play with for 8 months. I want you to be excited about the NEXT thing you can buy and use. Anticipation is a good thing -- too much of it isn't.

I'd respond with "then don't provide a street date if you're not sure you can keep it".

Let me put this another way - are there that many variables that can affect the release date of a product to such a degree that the company policy is to NOT provide one?

If that's the case, then so be it (ouch!). It just seems plenty of others are able to stick to a publishing schedule. I am confused as to why Catalyst have this issue.

I'm not meaning to nitpick btw. I just don't understand the industry enough to understand how this can occur.

- J.

PS: I'm always bristling with anticipation. But I do recall the days when release dates were a joke and equally dismissed.

[Ancient History]

I'd respond with "then don't provide a street date if you're not sure you can keep it".

We don't. See how that works?

Let me put this another way - are there that many variables that can affect the release date of a product to such a degree that the company policy is to NOT provide one?

Hah. Yes. The process of creating a book and getting it printed is not a simple three-step process. Even if you get the writing, art, editing, and layout done on time, once it's off to the printers everything is out of your hands until it goes to the warehouse.

[Adam]

I'd respond with "then don't provide a street date if you're not sure you can keep it".

Which is what we endeavor to do.

Let me put this another way - are there that many variables that can affect the release date of a product to such a degree that the company policy is to NOT provide one?

Yes. Some that are within our control, and some that are not. For example, we warehouse our games in the USA, but most of them are printed in Canada or overseas, which means they have to cross through American Customs on the way to our warehouse. Sometimes, shipments end up radically delayed in Customs, and RPG/other gaming material often falls victim to questionable delays because it also tends to contain material that on first glance, may look objectional [FanPro once had a book delayed at the US/Canadian border because it was part of a joint shipment with another company, and that company had a book titled "Devils and Demons" or something similar in the same shipment, so the entire shipment was held for over a week. Just a quick example.]

Even if we waited until the book was at the printer, there are still things that can go wrong during printing or shipping, which is why we wait until the books are in our warehouse.

And of course, before the books leave our hands, plenty can go wrong, and plans can simply change. A book that we thought was nearly ready may need more attention, whereas another book that we had slated to come up after it may have breezed through editing and layout and be nearly ready to go, so we shift priorities.

If that's the case, then so be it (ouch!). It just seems plenty of others are able to stick to a publishing schedule. I am confused as to why Catalyst have this issue.

I think that if you look at most publishers of our size [less than 10 employees] in the game industry and outside of it, release dates are a chronic problem.

In the end, we believe that providing Street Dates when we have the book in our warehouse best serves all levels of our customers: distributors, retailers, and the end-user customer.

Providing people with _more_ information is only valuable if that information is accurate.

[Demonseed Elite]

Yes, and my balloon made it from Indianapolis to the middle of Iowa. I think it was one of the farthest traveling that year in elementary school.

If you're genuinely courting chat suggestions, I have four:

1. Space them out a bit more. Perhaps one every 60 days instead of one every 30. A thirty-day cycle isn't a particularly long time and if there's more of a buffer it may allow for interest to gather more steam.
2. Pick a very specific topic for discussion. If left open, chats inevitably fall into the typical "When is XYZ being released?/We can't tell you, silly goose" back and forth. So for June you could discuss "Everything You Wanted to Know About Organized Crime but Were Afraid to Ask Because It Might Get Your Legs Broken", "Magic and Mysteries of the 6th World: Hosted by Ancient History" for August, "Shadowrun Novels: The Good, The Bad and The Goblinizing" for October, et cetera. Keep it focused. Being in character isn't a topic, it's just a method of communication. And on that...
3. Limit the IC chats to once or twice a year. Many find them fun but I'm more interested in straight info, honest candor and tips rather than online role-playing.
4. If a topic doesn't lend itself to a back-and-forth discussion it may be better left as a blog post than a chat topic.

That's all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I pretty much agree with these suggestions. Though I'm not sure I'd bother sticking to an "every 60 days" schedule and instead just schedule chats when you have something to say. Or especially, when you have something to announce. Everyone seems to love the chats where there is a PDF launch attached or the announcement of a product they didn't know previously existed. Chats that don't have this kind of anchor seem to drift all over the place and without that kind of announcement, they always have a weak finish.

[Cardul]

Yes. Some that are within our control, and some that are not. For example, we warehouse our games in the USA, but most of them are printed in Canada or overseas, which means they have to cross through American Customs on the way to our warehouse. Sometimes, shipments end up radically delayed in Customs, and RPG/other gaming material often falls victim to questionable delays because it also tends to contain material that on first glance, may look objectional [FanPro once had a book delayed at the US/Canadian border because it was part of a joint shipment with another company, and that company had a book titled "Devils and Demons" or something similar in the same shipment, so the entire shipment was held for over a week. Just a quick example.]

And, Tactical Operations was held in customs for what, a month? I understand being held on a boat that long caused some problems with the first batches bindings...

Honestly, I think part of the problem right now is: it is may, and we have not had anything in dead tree for any of CGL's stuff since...Feral Cities in January. The novels are....where? What is the hold up with them? Are we going to have them before GenCon? Are we going to have ANYTHING in dead tree before gencon? I love you guys and your stuff, but, it really seems that every year, there is a rush of releases at GenCon and shortly after(september and october), slows down in November and December, and then very little from January to GenCon. This is what leads to people wanting to know what is coming up, when something is coming up...because, honestly, we want to give you our money! And, when I have already bought all the stuff that is out there, both PDF and dead tree(where available), I do not see how I can give you any more of my money without something new...

[Adam]

Yup. I acknowledged that in my previous post. Suddenly throwing out a bunch of potential dates, however, is not the solution to that issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[tarbrush]

From my point of view, it was my first chat, so I had no idea what I was really doing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I agree with previous posters who've suggested that you realease a small piece of spoiler to give the discussion a bit of focus.

Or alternatively, prep one of the JP people with a story or something that they can tell that everyone can get involved in if things are going slowly. Something like what Clockwork posted about the red cyborg, but a bit more open ended. There's not really much more that any of us can say other than "wtf, cyborg?" or "yes we'll keep an eye out for that". If you have two or three of you guys go back and forth for a few sentences it gives a lot more hooks for the rest of us to ask questions about.

[DireRadiant]

Every time Catalyst hints at a release date, corporate enemies hire a bunch of runners to futz up the release date.

[SincereAgape]

Every time Catalyst hints at a release date, corporate enemies hire a bunch of runners to futz up the release date.

Dang you GamesWorkshop.

[deek]

I like the IC chats and I agree with having some backup story or teasers from the JP people if things are slow.

And technically, these monthly chats are posted here and asked for questions ahead of time if you are not able to attend, so if the devs have an answer to those questions by chat day, then I'd hope they would answer them before or after the IC chat.

Anyways, I'd say keep on doing what you are doing.

The only real suggestion I have is maybe trying one of these chats during the week. It would at least be worth it to see if there was better turnout when some people might already be sitting in front of their computer. My impression is that there's more availability during the work week than on a weekend...

[Wesley Street]

The only real suggestion I have is maybe trying one of these chats during the week. It would at least be worth it to see if there was better turnout when some people might already be sitting in front of their computer. My impression is that there's more availability during the work week than on a weekend...

Take it from someone who has run a young adult ministry for seven years. There's never an ideal time for any extra-curricular activity, be it weekend or weekday. It's best to just pick a time and hope people are dedicated enough to show. Start playing the "what day would be ideal" game and it leads to madness.