Best SR4 Assassin, Trolls with Bows -- overpowered? Options

[mintcar]

Before I forget... Are really all melee weapons min str/2 +x? Could someone explain to me why this is? If you´re really strong you could get seriously gimped by being armed.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

min & melee was my mistake... as edited. :twirl:

[mintcar]

<huge sigh of relief> :)

[hahnsoo]

[hobgoblin]

[Req]

[reconsweden]

A high power troll bow will be made in SR just as .50BMG is sold for sporting/hunting to civilians and Smith & Wesson actually use the phrase "Ultimate Defensive Carry" when describing/marketing the S&W 500 with the 4" barrel.

Can it be done, someone will want to buy it ;)

[Conskill]

I have to admit, my knowledge of the physics of bowyery is lacking.

Is it even possible to create a bow that powerful? I'd assume (there's that nasty word) that you'd reach sharply dimishing returns on sheer draw strength before you start reaching the force of a main cannon.

[hyzmarca]

That depends on how Strength 15 translates into poundage. It is certainly possible to make bows that no human being can draw using modern materials. With 65 years worth of advances in building materials it wouldn't be unreasonable.

Battlefield longbows could have draw weights of well over 100 pounds. They could pierce plate armor with startling ease, in the hands of a trained bowman. And that is just with plain wood.

Modern bows use laminated carbon fiber to achive both high draw weights and compactness. Still, there is little demand for 100+ pound bows. Most modern archers would have difficulty working with such draw weights. It should be possible to make a bow with a 200 or 300 pound draw weight using modern materials. It may be large but it would certainly work.

There is little point in making a bow of those draw weights, even in war. A single arrow will only put one hole in a person and there is a limit to one's vision. I suppose a high-poundage bow would help with accuracy at extreme long ranges with accompanied with some type of magnification, but the arrow drop will still be great. At that point you are probably better off using indirect fire.

The Troll bowman problem isn't unique to SR4. He was devestating in SR3, as well.

[blakkie]

I think the real physics question here is if having an extreme range out to 900m is feasible without ever having the bowstring/arrow breaking the sound barrier. Otherwise so much for the stealth factor.

Oh and you better have one hell of guard to protect your arm if that string should even hit it during release. And a damn good one of those whatever they are called that you use to hold the bowstring, because something moving that fast and that much pressure on it will rip the gloves and then your skin right off your finger tips.

[hahnsoo]

Yeah, most of the sources I've seen in my rather cursory examination of archery put even the strongest draws at a maximum range (if you aren't aiming for a target) of 300 meters, with a maximum effective range (aiming and hitting a target) at 80 meters or less. Even with a troll strength, you won't get much more than that as far as range.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I really know two things about bows and well jack left town. But still I'd suspect there would be a limit to how fast an arrow can fly before it loses accuracy. quills or whatever the feather things are called would fly off, its not perfectly aerodynamic, there flexible and bend at launch I think.(or at least it looked that way in some history channel special)

It just seems at a certain speed they'd breakdown in accuracy. Then again I could be smoking the crack, because again I really know virtually nothing about bows.

[Fresno Bob]

[Crusher Bob]

A defense against sudden ego deflation.

As for the arrows, certain stiffness of arrows is required for certain draw weights. The stiffness of the arrows has to be within a certain range, or the shots won't be as accurate. The stiffness required for a bow that Wallhacker would be proud of would have to be pretty inpressive.

[Jürgen Hubert]

[evil1i]

http://www.unifi.it/unifi/surfchem/solid/b...ry/scalingbows/

Rather interesting discussion on the scaling of bows (allbeit for smaller bows but the Math could be reversed).

Basic result is that Yes a bigger bow would do more damage and at generally longer ranges so fear the Troll Archer Assassin (especially one that specialises at just that - I'm imagining a cyber+adept combo that would be simply deadly!)

[Eagle]

The one thing that concerns me is the cheese wire effect. The amount of force from the carbon wire or whatever across the fingers has got to leave an impression if not plain cut off the fingers.

I think the ancillary equipment to get a bow this strong working and safely would start getting very expensive.

Then it starts getting very large, with the stabilisers and other bits of kit (vision and smartgun links). The first time cops see it, they'll just laugh and wave you on. Then the "harpoon killer" hits the news and suddenly its not a joke, and the troll carrying the hand portable ballista is on every policeman's mind because it's such an unusual method of assassination. Hmm, I think there might be an adventure is there somewhere

[Xenith]

Turning a strange/high powered rules set up into a unique anventure. Very nice. :D

[snowRaven]

Yeah - the main thing preventing such insan troll-bows should be simple availability of the bow.

Forget asking a fixer or walking into S-Mart to get one.

Consider this: how many Str 15 Trolls will there be in the SR universe? Divide that number by at least 10 and probably closer to 100 or 1000 to figure out how many of them have any interest in archery with a bow maxed-out for their strength.

Basically - force the Troll archer to either build it himself, or find someone who can. Otherwise he's stuck with the 'standard' Troll bows made for Str 9 or 10.

[Ancient History]

Bah. The best SR4 assassin is the hacker or technomancer that gets your house 'bot to replace your tooth paste with cyanide paste. You guys are looking for Hacksassins.

[Shadow_Prophet]

Well first, firing a STR 15 bow would put out enough sound to be equivilent of a gunshot.

Second, you don't pull back modern hunting bows (unless you're one of the extreamly few crazies who do) with your fingers. You use what is called a release which anchors around your wrist and has a little trigger you pull the then releases the bowstring ensuring that all points of contact on that bowstring release it at the same time (unlike with fingers hence the move away from that).

And in all honesty whoop de frigging do. You can do a large amount of damage with a bow. Congradulations. You now have a signature weapon which would have had to have been custom made virtualy, or atleast sold through a very very small section of retailers, most of which could recognize you. And yes you'd get it through a retailer for the simple fact that unless you have a gun shop (well archery but for rules sake we'll go with gun) you wouldn't have the tools to set up your bow on your own. And yes each bow has to be specificaly set up for the user in real life so :P. Not to mention having arrows cut for you, unless you have a arrow saw (another thing you'd need the shop for).

All you're doing with that STR 15 bow is making yourself more identifiable. And that in and of itself is bad. Then ofcourse the sound it'll make is going to be quite noticeable.

So yes you can do alot of damage, at the cost of multiple other things.

[tirsales]

But it would be pretty impressive ...
Body lying on the floor, his military armor (and body) with a nice, round hole all through..
Cop 1: "What the hell did happen?"
Cop 2: "Weeeelll ... We recon someone shot him with a bow"
Cop 1: "A BOW?"
Cop 2: Weeelll... We found the arrow in the next room"
Cop 1: "There a fu** wall between"
Cop 2: "Yeah..."

[Synner667]

Hmmm..
..Interesting reading.

I do think that many of the folks here have lost sight of a rare concept that some people believe in, often known as "the character".

I personally think that an assassin who uses a high power bow is a great character, as regards character background, character development, etc.

After all, such characters exist in comics [Green Arrow, anyone ??] and their focus allows some very interesting characterisation and roleplay opps.

Also, anyone remem the magical "bow" on one of the S/Run sourcebook covers ??


Of course, the sheer dedication of that sort of character is, in my opinion, what makes a good character.


Just my tuppence worth,
Peter

[warrior_allanon]

[Siege]

This also goes back to the arguments about troll-customized weapons.

With "modern" production facilities available to the SR small-business entrepreneur, custom weapons could be made and sold to people interested in "high-power" weaponry.

Orks, trolls and augmented sorts might find enough business to keep an armorer/gunsmith interested to set up a small business on the side. For those of you curious, there is a long thread about the commercial viability of troll-spec weaponry.

Just my two bits.

-Siege