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> Layering Vision Enhancements?
Jaid
post Oct 7 2005, 03:38 AM
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you do if the new place of residence of said limb happens to be the stomach of a wendigo.
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Gothic Rose
post Oct 7 2005, 03:38 AM
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IIRC Master Shedim and Wendigo eat essence by eating bits of people.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Oct 7 2005, 04:59 AM
Post #78


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QUOTE (blakkie)
But even the most limiting ruling has even Signal 0 sensors reaching across a small room (3m).

The point is that any mine triggered by a proximity sensor like proximity wire migth blow when you enter a certain radius plus 2m. ;)

Now... what happens if the sensor fails on the first test he has? ;)

QUOTE (blakkie)
which i find extremely questionable for sniffing sensors

It applies to Video/Audio/etc. sensors as well - those are passive, too.
Cyberware scanners, while beeing passive as well, are even more limited.

So the point seems to be game balance, justified with the lack of absorption by the sensor.
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Azralon
post Oct 7 2005, 02:29 PM
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Aye. Getting your arm bitten off by a crocodile does Physical damage, not Essence loss.

Getting a toaster implanted into your shoulder and trying to convince your soul that it's a natural part of you will do Essence loss.

I'll cross-examine your lawyer by asking if, while that iBall was working in remote mode, the images it transmitted got at all converted into a different medium than normal light.

Auras are contiguous metaphysical energy fields generated by natural lifeforms. Your aura can be holistically targeted but you can't target specific parts of it (no called shots with Manabolt) because it's considered to be one "unit." That's why you can drive an enclosed car though a mana barrier but you'd get knocked off your motorcycle.

So no, detached iBalls don't contain Essence. If you want you can think of the skull-socket docking station as the part that cost you Essence and you just plug a removable appliance into it.
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blakkie
post Oct 7 2005, 02:39 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Oct 6 2005, 10:59 PM)
QUOTE (blakkie)
But even the most limiting ruling has even Signal 0 sensors reaching across a small room (3m).

The point is that any mine triggered by a proximity sensor like proximity wire migth blow when you enter a certain radius plus 2m. ;)

Now... what happens if the sensor fails on the first test he has? ;)

Typicallly the same thing that happens if they have a longer range since they get even less dice the second time (if the GM actually makes a retest), he's blown sky high.

EDIT: And yes i know why you are making ruling, i'm just suggesting it make extremely little sense for a strong smell originating 4m to not be detected by a fait odor from 3m being detected because the detection is being made at the point of the sensor. This is especially true given that the sniffer sensors that has ratings.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Oct 7 2005, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
Typicallly the same thing that happens if they have a longer range since they get even less dice the second time (if the GM actually makes a retest), he's blown sky high.

Just there is the slight difference between having a second chance, though smaller, and going boom immediatly. ;)
Also, those mods reset after some period - the longer you got, the better.

On the other hand... mount it onto some Drones and send them scouting.

QUOTE (blakkie)
i'm just suggesting it make extremely little sense for a strong smell originating 4m to not be detected by a fait odor from 3m being detected because the detection is being made at the point of the sensor. This is especially true given that the sniffer sensors that has ratings.

It makes even less 'sense' for sound or light.

But... here's something very interesting, entirely different:
You may not spend edge on tests for Sensors... but, you may spend on your Cyberware, since it was paid with essence and is part of the character.
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blakkie
post Oct 7 2005, 03:47 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
QUOTE (blakkie)
i'm just suggesting it make extremely little sense for a strong smell originating 4m to not be detected by a fait odor from 3m being detected because the detection is being made at the point of the sensor. This is especially true given that the sniffer sensors that has ratings.

It makes even less 'sense' for sound or light.

But... here's something very interesting, entirely different:
You may not spend edge on tests for Sensors... but, you may spend on your Cyberware, since it was paid with essence and is part of the character.

If an Agent is doing the checking, yup. But once it becomes the PCs perception check? Especially if this is with VR? Edge territory again.

P.S. Vision does actually make some sense to limit, with lenses and such. Sound? Passive mics nope, laser mics yup. What would make slightly more sense is perception modifiers for ranges (along with enviromental modifiers) to handle more like weapons ranges based off the Signal with penalties assigned for percentages of and multiples of the range.
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blakkie
post Oct 7 2005, 03:49 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
QUOTE (blakkie)
Typicallly the same thing that happens if they have a longer range since they get even less dice the second time (if the GM actually makes a retest), he's blown sky high.

Just there is the slight difference between having a second chance, though smaller, and going boom immediatly. ;)
Also, those mods reset after some period - the longer you got, the better.

On the other hand... mount it onto some Drones and send them scouting.

Ya, see it's all a risky gamble till you put it on a 'boot'. ;)
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Oct 7 2005, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
But once it becomes the PCs perception check? Especially if this is with VR?  Edge territory again.

If you make Perception tests - which, considering every Sensor with a Rating exept Laser/Directional mic, you don't:
The Sensor makes the test - no Edge for him, even if the result of that test is send to you.

QUOTE (blakkie)
Ya, see it's all a risky gamble till you put it on a 'boot'.

True - using RFID Sensors for recon is certain suicide, not a gamble.
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blakkie
post Oct 7 2005, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Oct 7 2005, 10:43 AM)
QUOTE (blakkie)
But once it becomes the PCs perception check? Especially if this is with VR?  Edge territory again.

If you make Perception tests - which, considering every Sensor with a Rating exept Laser/Directional mic, you don't:
The Sensor makes the test - no Edge for him, even if the result of that test is send to you.

...until you patch the sensor input into your head and then you make the Perception+Sensor check yourself (page 162), and thus Edge can actually be used.

QUOTE
QUOTE (blakkie)
Ya, see it's all a risky gamble till you put it on a 'boot'.

True - using RFID Sensors for recon is certain suicide, not a gamble.


Er, i mean walking around wearing sensors of any sort. :P Turn the corner in the hall? BOOM!!!
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Oct 7 2005, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
until you patch the sensor input into your head and then you make the Perception+Sensor check yourself (page 162), and thus Edge can actually be used.

Sadly, that rule doesn't apply to Sensor Packages, but Vehicle Sensor Attribute. ;)

QUOTE (blakkie)
Er, i mean walking around wearing sensors of any sort.

If you let them fool you into a security they fail to provide, certainly.
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blakkie
post Oct 7 2005, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
QUOTE (blakkie)
until you patch the sensor input into your head and then you make the Perception+Sensor check yourself (page 162), and thus Edge can actually be used.

Sadly, that rule doesn't apply to Sensor Packages, but Vehicle Sensor Attribute. ;)

Er, if you want to make up a rule that says that. Sure.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Oct 7 2005, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
Er, if you want to make up a rule that says that. Sure.

I don't need to:
QUOTE (SR4 p. 163)
To detect a person, critter, or vehicle with sensors, the character/vehicle must make a successful Sensor + Perception Test (Sensor + Pilot in the case of drones).

Sensor is an Attribute only possessed by Vehicles/Drones.
Notice also how those rules just allow you to detect certain things.
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blakkie
post Oct 7 2005, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE
If more than one sensor in a package applies
to a Sensor Test, use only the highest rating.


Where is this Sensor Test they speak of? Why on page 162. I certainly see no other Sensor Test listed in the BBB. :P
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Oct 7 2005, 06:03 PM
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That reference is known, but as demonstrated, simply useless with those rules...
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blakkie
post Oct 7 2005, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
That reference is known, but as demonstrated, simply useless with those rules...

:wobble: :wobble: :wobble:

Come on man, look at the descriptions. For example the directional mic talks about the person hearing. The laser mic is further explicit that the person is hearing (and even shows a Sensor check to boot). The sniffer refers to it working like the cyberware version.

That all adds up to a big slimmy, wet mackel to the side of your head. :P
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Oct 7 2005, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
For example the directional mic talks about the person hearing. The laser mic is further explicit that the person is hearing (and even shows a Sensor check to boot).

In fact, the first has no Test specified at all, and the second does not use a Sensor Test but a Perception Test, replacing Attribute with Device rating... and both were already excluded in an earlier post from the 'no Edge' point.

QUOTE (blakkie)
The sniffer refers to it working like the cyberware version.

Not quite: it's description defines it as the analysis part and refers then to those rules...
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hyzmarca
post Oct 7 2005, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE (Azralon)
Aye. Getting your arm bitten off by a crocodile does Physical damage, not Essence loss.

Getting a toaster implanted into your shoulder and trying to convince your soul that it's a natural part of you will do Essence loss.

I'll cross-examine your lawyer by asking if, while that iBall was working in remote mode, the images it transmitted got at all converted into a different medium than normal light.

Auras are contiguous metaphysical energy fields generated by natural lifeforms. Your aura can be holistically targeted but you can't target specific parts of it (no called shots with Manabolt) because it's considered to be one "unit." That's why you can drive an enclosed car though a mana barrier but you'd get knocked off your motorcycle.


If your arm is bitten off by a crocidile it only causes phsyical damage. If your arm if bitten off by a Windigo, it causes both.

Yes, but detached pieces do remain connected to the aura for some time. Magicians can target you for ritual magic through your urine. Your urine remains conencted to your aura for some time. If your urine remains connected to your aura it isn't that far fetched to say that a severed eye does, as well.

Of course, when you remember that magicians can't target through digitally transmited images, things become much more stable. Just don't mistake it for a problem with the auras.
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Azralon
post Oct 7 2005, 07:06 PM
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As long as you're cool with iBalls getting used as ritual links, I can buy that interpretation.

Here's something to twist your brain more, though: What happens when two people swap (hardware-compatible) iBalls?
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hyzmarca
post Oct 7 2005, 07:14 PM
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The samething that happens when you implant used 'ware or secondhand organs, I suspect.
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Azralon
post Oct 7 2005, 07:29 PM
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Which is?
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hyzmarca
post Oct 7 2005, 07:30 PM
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QUOTE (Azralon)
Which is?

I have no clue.
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mfb
post Oct 7 2005, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE (Azralon)
Here's something to twist your brain more, though: What happens when two people swap (hardware-compatible) iBalls?

well, uhh... you see... when a bird and a bee decide to, uh... listen, go ask your mother, okay?

alternatively: don't worry about it, that sort of thing won't even be legal in massachusets, soon.
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Jaid
post Oct 7 2005, 09:05 PM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca)
[snip... ] detached pieces do remain connected to the aura for some time. Magicians can target you for ritual magic through your urine. Your urine remains conencted to your aura for some time. If your urine remains connected to your aura it isn't that far fetched to say that a severed eye does, as well.

hmmm... you don't mind telling me where it says that, do you? i haven't for the life of me been able to find anything on any sort of benefit from using a ritual link. maybe i just missed it completely, and maybe they just left it out for the magic book... but i can't find it anywhere.

i sure hope they have it somewhere... i mean, that's kinda been a major plot item in the past. if it's gone... well, i guess i'll have to make some houserules.
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blakkie
post Oct 7 2005, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
QUOTE (blakkie)
For example the directional mic talks about the person hearing. The laser mic is further explicit that the person is hearing (and even shows a Sensor check to boot).

In fact, the first has no Test specified at all, and the second does not use a Sensor Test but a Perception Test, replacing Attribute with Device rating... and both were already excluded in an earlier post from the 'no Edge' point.

:please: Why a specific reference to doing a Sensor test if the it wasn't applicable as a sensor test, and that last bit you tacked on is an entirely a circular reference [il]logic.
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