 In-game Elective Surgery, Cybereyes maybe needed; I might be blind |
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 Oct 6 2005, 09:05 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773  |
Uhhh.... I can't find anything in the main SR4 book that outlines rules for getting implants outside of character generation.
I'm kinda expecting a chart that shows how much physical damage is done to the patient based off of the implant's Essence cost, but I ain't seeing it. Is it in there? |
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Oct 6 2005, 09:12 PM
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#2
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Looks like that was deem to low a priority to be moved into the core book.
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Oct 6 2005, 09:12 PM
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#3
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Running, running, running Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,220 Joined: 18-October 04 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,769 |
I dont think it was in SR3 either, was it?
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Oct 6 2005, 09:15 PM
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#4
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Nah. I believe that was in a set of extra rules for surgery, healing options, and such in M&M. |
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Oct 6 2005, 09:15 PM
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#5
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Those rules were a dark chapter of SR3, though.
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Oct 6 2005, 09:15 PM
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#6
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
The rules were pretty vague in SR3's BBB. Pretty much, you found a shadowclinic and bought it like any other piece of cyber.
Considering I have as of yet to see anyone buy a piece of cyber in game, it makes sense to delegate it to another book. |
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Oct 6 2005, 09:16 PM
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#7
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Given the lower prices, this might happen much faster.
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Oct 6 2005, 09:16 PM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Awesome. Initiation made it into the core book, but you can't run out and get a datajack without resorting to house rules.
And yeah, it was in the SR3 core. |
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Oct 6 2005, 09:17 PM
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#9
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
With greatly reduced 'ware costs in SR4 you might actually start to see it a bit more. But ya, in SR3 it was fairly rare to add 'ware after character creation unless you game had a LOT of cash floating around.
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Oct 6 2005, 09:18 PM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
If I recall correctly, the next book that comes out will be Street Magic. ... Not that the core book has managed to "come out" yet. :P |
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Oct 6 2005, 09:19 PM
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#11
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Huh? Just buy...at street prices...and installation is free. No need for house rules. |
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Oct 6 2005, 09:19 PM
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#12
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
In fact, you can - you roll availability, pay the price and have it, like any other kind of equipment. |
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Oct 6 2005, 09:23 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 286 Joined: 5-September 05 Member No.: 7,688 |
I think the question is how long will the surgery take?
I imagine you'd roll a normal availability test to find the seller (who presumably would install it too), and I'd assume the cost of surgery is included in the price of the implant. Anyway, I started a low-powered game with the intent to award lots of karma and nuyen, so surgery will eventually be a must. |
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Oct 6 2005, 09:23 PM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Surely there's some downtime to recover from getting your arm chopped off and your nervous system rewired.
EDIT: I changed my mind on the surgery while in the waiting room. |
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Oct 6 2005, 09:29 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
Suprisingly little, in SR3 anyway - Had a character get a new brain implant, and was healed, fully, by the end of the day. |
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Oct 6 2005, 09:29 PM
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#16
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Not if you get pros to do it. ;) If you want that to mess around in that sort of detail, ya you'll need to house rule boxes of damage. Or include it as part of the aquiring checks, whatever. P.S. In SR3 that sort of detail indeed was in M&M. |
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Oct 6 2005, 09:30 PM
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#17
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
In SR4 recovery from even more severe wounds is pretty much faster. |
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Oct 6 2005, 09:40 PM
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#18
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
For lower powered characters definately. But with the highend, high cost M&M options SR3 could result in even faster recovers. Like from Deadlyish to fully healed in tens of hours. It's pretty damn tough to fully heal in less than 2 days an SR4 Troll that is in overdamage. But to use those SR3 options you basicially had to back up truckloads of cash to a high grade clinic (and have certain Edges/Powers/Body in your character).
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Oct 6 2005, 09:58 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
Nanites do a good deal of the implanting, (at least according to SR2 shadowtech) It's not like they hack you open for everything...
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Oct 6 2005, 10:03 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
Why not count every .1 essence lost (rounded up, so minimum .1) as one "box" of damage that has to be healed by the surgeon using the appropriate skill? (Medicine, I believe. Possibly a Medicine+Cybertechnology roll?)
An extended test with a pass of, savy, 30 minutes - so the small surgeries don't take much time, but the big ones - they take a shatload. |
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Oct 6 2005, 10:37 PM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 18-August 05 From: Germany Member No.: 7,571 |
And *please* don't even think of adding rules for "planing an operation", operation-costs, etc.
Healing,Operation,Stress was one of the crappiest (if not THE crappiest) chapters in the whole Shadowrun-serie (and I mean ALL editions) . . . (Yeah, we *have* ignored them and made houserules) @Gothic Rose: Nice. Though: Doc with Medicine-6, (Whatever-Attribute) 3, Reflexes-3 (5 Essence) -> Threshold 50, 3 Success per Roll -> 17 Rolls -> Above maximum number of rolls ... The OP would need 8.5h |
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Oct 6 2005, 10:57 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
8 and a half hours to completely replace the persons spinal column and lower brain with bleeding edge technology? That sounds PERFECT to me. Consider the fact that current day surgeries can take even longer, it seems to me that something as delicate as that would take an entire day.
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Oct 6 2005, 11:05 PM
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#23
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
So basically small potatoes compared to the time required find the actual item, which is for Wired III something like Nego+Cha (20, 1 week) before extra modifiers. |
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Oct 6 2005, 11:08 PM
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#24
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
I'd say a Medicine (Transimplant Surgery) + Logic (Essence Cost of Cyberware/0.1, 30 minutes) Extended Test sounds about right, although I don't think boxes of damage are healed during surgery. Despite the surgical mantra "A chance to cut is a chance to cure", surgery causes deliberate wounds for a therapeutic effect. For recovery purposes, I'd apply Physical damage equal to the Essence Cost of the cyberware times 2 (round up), and you wouldn't be able to use First Aid to reduce this damage (which is pretty much a given).
The formula looks a bit awkward when put into the standard format, of course. Another formula you can use could be Medicine (Transimplant Surgery) + Logic (Essence Cost of Cyberware times [insert favorite multiplier here], 1 hour) Extended Test. |
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Oct 6 2005, 11:15 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
I was suggesting the boxes as hits, really. Hence why I said "boxes" of damage. Since you're using the Medicine skill, it seemed to make more sense to me to call them damage boxes, but they'd really just be hits, I suppose. :) |
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