 Mystic Armor!, Is this as broken as it sounds? |
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 Nov 14 2005, 05:39 PM
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#1
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Spammer  Group: Banned Posts: 48 Joined: 22-October 05 Member No.: 7,879  |
I am having an argument with a player of mine. He insists that if you have mystic armor you can stack that on top of any normal armor he is wearing ( he has a normal armor rating of 6/4+ Mystic armor of 3= Armor rating of 9/7). Now as far as the rules for stacking armor say. You may only count the highest armor rating worn when rolling your "soaking" test. The rules in the BB are pretty vague as far as how mystic armor is applied and wether or not it stacks and/or is added strait to the armor rating.
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Nov 14 2005, 05:43 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,507 Joined: 27-January 05 From: ...and I'm all out of bubblegum Member No.: 7,021 |
It's cumulative with worn armor (p188). I guess you could start enforcing encumberance rules if your guy is getting way out there on armor. Or start shooting EX-EX or APDS bursts.
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Nov 14 2005, 05:57 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
On the discription of the Armor spell it does state that it is cumulative with worn armor like a shield. So I would say his Armor is 9/7.
What the armor spell does not say is that thsi does not affect the armor and encumberance rules, pg 149. So, technically unless the characters body is 5 or greater he would suffer the appropriate Agility and Reaction modifiers. |
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Nov 14 2005, 06:18 PM
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#4
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
The rules on page 149 refers worn armor. Mystic Armor is definately not "worn". But the GM could rule either way on it i think. [edit:at least until Fanpro clarifies] Whichever way you go you should definately treat Orthoskin and Dermal Plating with the same ruling as you do Mystic Armor. I would also suggest that adding Armor Modifications ratings on top of the Impact when determining encumbrance is even more applicable since it is actually worn. P.S. That leaves the Chemical Seal and Environment Adaptation options of Full Body Armor, providing no addition to armor rating, fully outside the encumbrance rules as written. *shrug* |
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Nov 14 2005, 06:20 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 14-November 05 Member No.: 7,961 |
I've got a question to throw in here about armor.
If you have a troll with an armor jacket, helmet, and mystic armor he should have crazy armor. The problem is when it doesnt pass the armor it converts to stun damage. If this player was unlucky with his dice wouldn't be be constantly passing out? |
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Nov 14 2005, 06:26 PM
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#6
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Since most Trolls are going to have a shorter track for Stun than Physical, and roughly the same as all metahumans, yes. IMO this is a good thing with SR4.
P.S. Bring Stim patches....and a good Medkit since mages can't Heal Stun. |
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Nov 14 2005, 06:29 PM
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#7
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Yes he would. Actually having a lot of armor isn't that great of a deal. Even 12 points of armor is just 4 points of damage you don't take, and turning physical to stun is a mixed blessing (you heal faster naturally, but slower with magical help and your stun track is usually shorter). Any weapon that would have dropped you in one shot will still usually do it in two - and many of those weapons are fired SA.
-Frank |
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Nov 14 2005, 06:38 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
Good point, misread that somehow. Because most elemental effects protect against half impact was wondering if it should be half impact plus enviromental protection. Either way it would make sense for someone who is wearing the equivalent in protection of a full fireman's outfit to be more bogged down by his armor than someone who did not take the Fire resistance mod. :grinbig:
:biggrin: |
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Nov 14 2005, 06:40 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 14-November 05 Member No.: 7,961 |
My group is starting out playing v4.
My first character was a troll adept melee fighter. We did a test battle and I ended up unconcisous on the ground in mere moments. The GM thought it would be overpowered at first, turns out that it wasnt. |
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Nov 14 2005, 08:19 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 4-November 04 Member No.: 6,807 |
Maybe from a metagame perspective, but in-character I think most would strongly prefer bruises to bullet holes :) Even from a metagame point of view, stun damage overflow knocks you out, while physical damage overflow has a good chance of killing you. It may not make much difference in who wins a given fight, but it can have a big effect on the lifespan of your character. |
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Nov 15 2005, 02:12 AM
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#11
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Target Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 12-October 05 Member No.: 7,834 |
I think you are better off with Combat Sense it is still every 3 points reduces damage by 1 but there is a chance to avoid the hit altogether.
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Nov 15 2005, 02:16 AM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
Or go attribute boost with reaction for only .25 and you will typically get +2 to 3 on reaction if you have a 6 magic....of course, dosen't help unless you have it turned on....
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Nov 15 2005, 04:41 AM
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#13
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Spammer Group: Banned Posts: 48 Joined: 22-October 05 Member No.: 7,879 |
I would normally agree and treat it the same as dermal armor with exception to the fact that under the description of dermal armor it states that dermal armor adds to your armor rating. Under mystic armor it says its cumalitive, wich leads me to believe that you treat it as a seperate piece of armor worn and use the highest of the two armors when using armor rating instead of adding it strait to the top. Obviously the wording of the adept ability needs to be reconsidered and/or clarified. |
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Nov 15 2005, 05:31 AM
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#14
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Cumulative specifically means that it works with the other Armor, not instead of it.
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Nov 15 2005, 06:19 AM
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#15
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
.... or a dictionary needs to be consulted to understand that cumulative is a synonym for added. :P EDIT: You might also note that this time 'round Mystic Armor is specifically described as toughing the skin, which is quite similar to Orthoskin. IMO an improvement over SR3 when it was a glowing freakin' aura....used by people who normally value stealth. :wobble: |
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Nov 15 2005, 10:39 AM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
blakkie mystic armor had no fixed description in 3rd ed
you are thinking of the armor spell |
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Nov 15 2005, 04:08 PM
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#17
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Doh, right :oops: .... and lets see ..... yup that little bit of stupidity was indeed faithfully cut-and-pasted forward. :please: *sigh* |
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Nov 15 2005, 04:23 PM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
And that whole "Passes out from stun damage" thing can be avoided with a pain editor or an adrenal pump.
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Nov 15 2005, 04:35 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
My god no. Not the adrenal pump....That thing will make you pass out from stun or death. Those things should come with a surgeon generals warning...
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Nov 15 2005, 05:21 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 11-June 05 Member No.: 7,441 |
Hehehe, at 12 points only, it's not so much worth it. But a troll adept with 10 levels of mystic armor, a 9 body, an armored coat (the 8/6 one), a helmet and a ballistic shield? mmm, 35/32 damage resistance dice. If you roll them out, he'll average roughly 10 boxes resisted. A literal walking tank. Secksy (said Eddie Murphy style). (One trick pony, but still fun ;) ) Street Sam: I draw my predator IV and shoot him twice! Troll Tank: *giggles* Hey, that tickles! Cut it out! |
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Nov 15 2005, 05:38 PM
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#21
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
It'll more than tickle, a street sam with ExEx rounds in his predator is going to be handing out about 11 DV with -3 AP, so the Troll is taking 2 Stun every time he gets hit. And that's with a sidearm. An Assault Rifle can be handing out a DV of over 20 if it's fired on full auto - and that'll drop the Troll in one complex action.
Being tough in SR4 is good. It will keep you alive against crazy nasty stuff. But it won't keep you standing. It's more like "extra lives" than extra "hit points". -Frank |
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Nov 15 2005, 07:18 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
Your mimax skills need some work ;) You can only have any adept power rating up to a max of your magic rating. No 10 points of mystic armor; you'll have to split it between combat sense and mystic armor. No problem though... check out the relevant stats for my concept (rules abuse) character Meathead the Invincible Troll: Qualities: Toughness, Adept, Mentor Spirt: Bear Shaman Body 10 Reaction 5 Magic 6 (4 after cyber) Cyberwear: Bone Density 4, Orthoskin 3 Adept Powers: Combat Sense 4, Mystic Armor 4 Gear: Cammo Suit, Helmet, Ballistic shield You first roll 9 dice to dodge (hey, pick up the dodge skill and roll even more on full dodge!). Next, you roll 24 + 16 dice for soak (10 body, +1 toughness, +2 bear shaman, + 4 bone density, +3 orthoskin, +4 mystic armor -- then add armor of 8 + 1 +6 for ballistic, +1 Troll dermal armor,). That's a total of 49 dice you're rolling against incoming damage. After you fail to dodge, you could BUY 10 hits, enough to soak a panther cannon. That panther cannon, btw, will do stun. You'd need to take 24 DV ballistic to take physical damage. This is with a legal starting character -- assuming your GM lets you have mentor spirits for adepts. If not, well, blow another 25 BP on Exceptional Attribute: Body, and you'll "only" roll 48 dice dodge + soak... Full autofire from a smartmounted HMG will still be a threat -- though perhaps not a lethal one. For anything that suffers recoil penalties, your 9 dodge dice will be very helpful. Of course, you'll be a one trick pony -- and who wants their one trick to be getting shot? |
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Nov 15 2005, 07:46 PM
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#23
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
As an excersize i checked and that's 270BP with all other attributes at
P.S. Of course it also assumes a favourable ruling that Orthoskin and Mystic Armor do not count for armour encumbrance. Otherwise not only is your Reaction going to be for crap, but unless you sink a lot of your remaining BP into Agility you'll actually be doing a great impression of the Michelin Man passed out on the ground after O.D.ing on Krispy Kreme doughnuts. :grinbig: EDIT: As a side note, what are other people's take on the Full Body Armor helmet? I just noticed that is kinda linked to the suit in the text. Do you think '-' was really intended to mean you can buy it over the counter at Wally's Weapon World, or do you think the intention was '+0' for an effective Avail of 14R? At the least i could see someone walking around with one on raise more than a few eyebrows, and definately attention from LS if an officer saw it. (automatic Perception under normal conditions?) |
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Nov 15 2005, 08:56 PM
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#24
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
You'd look like Calvin playing Master Chief from the Calvin & Halo comic strip. |
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Nov 15 2005, 09:05 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 11-June 05 Member No.: 7,441 |
Well, I was assuming synaptic accelerator (2) so that you weren't a *total* one trick pony. And if you're really really going for minmax, don't forget to grab mystic adept, drop exactly one point into actual magic, and max up that counterspelling skill with a specialization in combat spells. |
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