Sniper rifle power to high vs hvy machine gun Options

[Findar]

If I have my stats right the Walther MA-2100 has a 14S and a heavy machine gun has a 10S. The Barrett is a 14D attack. The Barrett and the heavy machinegun are .50 caliber weapons in the real world. Does anyone else think the the power levels of the Barrett and the heavy machine gun should be closer togther?

[Aku]

i think it's ok considering that iirc both of the snipers are SS guns, while the machine guns you can toss into full auto.

[stevebugge]

It's a game balance over realism issue most likely

[The Stainless St...]

Think about it like this: In general you can consider that armor values reflect not only the toughness of the armor, but also the area covered. It could very well be the case that the sniper rife has a higher damage code because it is more likely to put the same round into a more vital area - effectively adding to your skill and upping the damage.

[Austere Emancipa...]

You are absolutely right that the damage code of the HMG is crap compared to other guns. The standard excuse would be game balance -- 14D on fully automatic tends to make people very dead. Of course, a god damn heavy machinegun should kill people.

In my games, 12.7x99mm FMJs out of a long barrel did 14D with -10 to target body armor, regardless of whether it was shot from an anti-material rifle or a HMG.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[The Stainless St...]

*shrugs*

Hey, I'm not trying to justify it - just offering a possible explanation that conforms to other parts of the system.

[lumikant]

The calibre of the round isnt the only consideration when determining the damage it will do. A sniper rifle has a longer barrel, with less wear, and more precise rifling. This raises the muzzle velocity significantly. Also, as I believe the barret is an anti-material/anti-tank rifle the powder charge is probably significantly more powerful than that of an HMG, as you dont necessarily want a 3 mile range on an hmg, and the friction of a bullet going 150% faster through the barrel might cause warping, heat and wear issues.

[Austere Emancipa...]

My point is that it doesn't conform to other parts of the system. Otherwise it would be a likely excuse, and one that has certainly been used to ruin dozens of FPS-games.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[nick012000]

In 2063, sniper rifles don't use the same ammo as HMGs. This is supported by the rules concerning ammo. :P

[hyzmarca]

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn56-e.htm

It speaks for itself.

[Austere Emancipa...]

Right. Some time in the 21st century, all firearms designers got together and decided that from here on HMGs should suck ass, sound suppressors have to self-destruct once they've had 300 rounds fired through them, and every firearm in existence has to be fed with the exact same kind of detachable box magazine.

[Robotech Master]

To change the topic slightly, has anyone ever written a realistic ruleset/damageset for firearms?

[Austere Emancipa...]

Yes.

[Shrapnel]

I don't think the HMG in Shadowrun was actually designed after the Browning M2.

I think based on the damage rating, it would more likely be something like a .30-06, or maybe a 7.62x54R.

Now that I look at it, the description in the SR3 rulebook labels the HMG as an "RPK". That doesn't make any sense at all, considering an RPK is just a larger version of an AK, and still uses the same magazines and 7.62x39 ammo.

Now, an RPD would use belts, but still be 7.62x39.

Perhaps what they actually had in mind was a PKM, which is a belt-fed 7.62x54R. That would make a LOT more sense, based on the damage, considering that the 7.62x54R is fairly comparable to the 7.62 NATO.

So, any opinions?

[Austere Emancipa...]

That'd require them to have had no fucking idea what light, medium or heavy machineguns are. And since LMGs, MMGs, and HMGs all do more damage than Assault Rifles, as much damage as Sport Rifles, and less damage than Sniper Rifles, that'd mean they were basically making all three based on GPMGs like the M60, M240 and the PKM. It's possible they really were that ignorant, but that doesn't mean we have to be.

Since WW2, no HMGs have been manufactured in number that were chambered for anything but .50BMG, 12.7x108mm, or 14.5x114mm.

[eidolon]

Sniper rifles have a higher damage rating because they're kewl.

[otomik]

[Austere Emancipa...]

If you play out the downsides of a HMG as well, I don't think they are particularly unbalanced. The massive size and weight, having to have a (stationary, unless you're a troll) mount to fire it from, etc. make it not a very shadowrunner-friendly weapon. It's only really useful in a warzone, and any team of shadowrunners that decide to make their own warzone will quickly find themselves outgunned.

HMGs have always been around and theoretically available in my games, but none of my players ever showed any interest in getting one. They were quite happy with their GPMG and ARs.

[Fix-it]

they work decent on vehicle mounted though. I've always preferred to get a minigun if I'm going for something that heavy though. 7.62 is always easier to get ahold of.

[Crusher Bob]

But if you have to stop any sort of armored vehicle, that 7.62 is just going to bounce right off. At point blank range, HMG rounds have some marginal anti-armor abilities

[nick012000]

[Raygun]

[Findar]

I have to say my feeling is the HMG round, assuming it's a .50BMG or equivalent, when compared to the assault rifle is probably more accurately reflected at 14S than 10S. Agree or disagree?