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> Killing dual-natured critters.
emo samurai
post Mar 8 2006, 02:23 AM
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If you're a mage, then you could just astrally project behind a wall or something and manabolt a dual-natured beast. It can't project, and it can't just move through the barrier, so it's pretty much helpless. Is this supposed to happen?
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Aku
post Mar 8 2006, 02:26 AM
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doesnt the wall still block LOS?
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emo samurai
post Mar 8 2006, 02:28 AM
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Oh... so the wall blocks LOS in astral space, too?
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Aku
post Mar 8 2006, 02:30 AM
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i beleive they do, , they just dont block movement
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Dissonance
post Mar 8 2006, 02:31 AM
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That's the way I always saw it. Being in the Astral is like having -noclip mode on in an FPS.
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FrankTrollman
post Mar 8 2006, 02:31 AM
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Yes. The wall still blocks LOS. Of course, a projecting mage can fly, so anywhere out in the open any dual creature is a fish in a barrel waiting for astral attack helicopters to come and kill it with mana bolts.

But anywhere that a dual natured critter has a ceiling they can reach, a projecting mage has to subject themselves to attack before they can strike. That's why ghouls feel so much safer in sewers and drainage ditches than forests.

-Frank
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emo samurai
post Mar 8 2006, 02:43 AM
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QUOTE
That's why ghouls feel so much safer in sewers and drainage ditches than forests.

They're in constant danger from astrally projecting mages? You'd think they were safer in a forest; all the plants block astral movement, not to mention sight.
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Egon
post Mar 8 2006, 02:43 AM
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I am afraid you have to settle for flying above the poor dual natured critter and raining death on them from out of reach.
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Dissonance
post Mar 8 2006, 02:46 AM
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I'd figure that ghouls would feel more comfortable in the sewers because there's more access to metahuman flesh in the city, opposed to the forest.

Unless you're only eating dryads or something.
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KB12
post Mar 8 2006, 03:07 AM
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Astrally projecting through a wall works as long as you ran into this critter while you were astrally projecting in the first place.

If you run into the critter in person, which is what I feel is most common, astrally projecting through a wall would do nothing. To do that you would have to leave behind your meat body which I'm sure the critter would go right after if it couldn't get you first.

I know it's obvious, but it had to be mentioned...
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mfb
post Mar 8 2006, 03:18 AM
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plants don't, i believe, block astral movement, any more than any other non-dual-natured living thing blocks astral movement.
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Dissonance
post Mar 8 2006, 03:36 AM
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If Memory Serves, a living thing like the forest is a bit of a hassle because you have to deal with all the living biomass.

However, the sewers (or even the subway, for that matter) creates an infinitely more safe place to chill out, as you can't use astral movement through the earth. You'd have to go in through an opening in the ground, opposed to just sinking down into your random underground chill-out place.

And I do seem to remember people using kudzu to keep people from astral projecting themselves into buildings.
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mfb
post Mar 8 2006, 03:39 AM
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dual-natured kudzu.
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FrankTrollman
post Mar 8 2006, 03:39 AM
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QUOTE
And I do seem to remember people using kudzu to keep people from astral projecting themselves into buildings.


And in the 2nd edition rules, that worked.

-Frank
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bclements
post Mar 8 2006, 04:52 AM
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QUOTE (mfb)
dual-natured kudzu.

Better not try the 'astral gunship' routine in the CAS then :grinbig:
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nick012000
post Mar 8 2006, 04:54 AM
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Heh. You don't need to ward your home for Astral privacy. Just bury it in dirt.
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warrior_allanon
post Mar 8 2006, 05:34 AM
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QUOTE (nick012000)
Heh. You don't need to ward your home for Astral privacy. Just bury it in dirt.

nah, kudzu is a climber like ivy, (which they mention in 3ed and i believe threats 2) so all you have to do is plant it around your house and train it up around the building.
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fistandantilus4....
post Mar 8 2006, 06:01 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong (Frank ;) ) but wasn't dual-natured changed in 4th edition to mean that they can astrally perceive, instead of the previous always astrally acitve? I thought I remembered reading that in the critters section.
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nick012000
post Mar 8 2006, 09:24 AM
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Firstly: Kudzu does not block astral travel. Only astral objects do: astral barriers, and astral critters.

Secondly: In 4th Edition, Dual Natured critters are always Astrally Percieving. The action is Auto and the duration of the power is Always.
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fistandantilus4....
post Mar 8 2006, 09:48 AM
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'k, missed that . thanks
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neko128
post Mar 8 2006, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (nick012000)
Firstly: Kudzu does not block astral travel. Only astral objects do: astral barriers, and astral critters.

Yes, but dual-natured carnivorous super-Kudzu does!
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Frackula
post Mar 8 2006, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE (mfb)
dual-natured kudzu.

Why not just use biofiber mesh inside the walls?

Unless that dual-natured kudzu is carnivorous...
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FrankTrollman
post Mar 8 2006, 04:15 PM
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QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Correct me if I'm wrong (Frank ;) ) but wasn't dual-natured changed in 4th edition to mean that they can astrally perceive, instead of the previous always astrally acitve? I thought I remembered reading that in the critters section.

Heh.

In SR4, dual natured critters have gotten quite the screw. As written, they are active on the Astral Plane and the Physical Plane all the time, but they can only see one or the other at any given moment and require a Simple Action to switch back and forth. So at any given time they are vulnerable to attacks from both Astral and Physical sources, but their perception is only on one or the other.

You get that information from following citations rather than having it ever spelled out, so I suspect that was an unintentional nerf of dual critters, and that dragons are actually not supposed to be easily dispatched by any team capable of fielding at least one attacker on each plane of existence.

QUOTE (SR4 @ p. 287)
A critter that is dual-natured is active in the astral plane and can affect astral beings as well as physical ones. Dual-natured creatures have the ability to perceive and interact with the astral plane in the same way as characters using astral perception


QUOTE (SR4 @ p. 182)
It takes a Simple Action to shift one's perception from the astral to the physical, and another to shift it back again (it is not possible to see both at the same time, though almost everything in in physical space is reflected on the astral, albeit without detail).


Intentional? I'm not sure.

-Frank
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mfb
post Mar 8 2006, 04:17 PM
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ouch.
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emo samurai
post Mar 8 2006, 04:55 PM
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But it it's astrally perceiving, that means it can still move its meat body, right?
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