20th Edition Errata, Errata for the new 20th Anniversary edition of SR4 Options

[Larsine]

Well it had to come. Here are the firts errata for the new 20th Anniversary edition:

p110: Sample Characters - Street Samurai
Wrong: Physical Damage Track: 10
Correct: Physical Damage Track: 12
Base (8) + ½Body (2) + 2 cyberlimbs (2) = 12

p373: Shadowrun Master Tables
First entry "Street Knowledge Skills, SR4–129" should be moved to 5th column after "Street Costs, SR4–312"

Lars

[Angier]

p. 341: eyeware image link entry in table

wrong: Image Link 0.1* 4* 500Â¥
right: Image Link 0.1* * 4 500Â¥

[Larsine]

p69, Commlinks:
Wrong: Commlinks are also the interface characters use to experience the augmented reality of the Matrix (p. 18).
Rigth: Commlinks are also the interface characters use to experience the augmented reality of the Matrix (p. 218).

Lars

[Adam]

Thanks for starting the thread, Larsine.

p373: Shadowrun Master Tables
First entry "Street Knowledge Skills, SR4–129" should be moved to 5th column after "Street Costs, SR4–312"

Hah! This is a great example of how mistakes happen:

I spent well over a day working on proofreading the index, myself. I printed it out and sat down at my kitchen table with every book at my side, and I went down the index line by line, looking for formatting errors and anything that jumped out to me as bizarre. After inputting the corrections and sliding all the cover art into place for the legend, I neatened up the flow a little bit -- trying to make sure that the start of a letter started at the top of a page/column if possible, and that sort of thing.

I was hoping to keep the index to a slim-trim 21 pages, but it slipped over to 22. I didn't want to pad out the last page of the index with some sort of filler, so I IMed Jen with my usual "Are you bored?" which is code for "I have an idea and it involves you doing grunt work while I make it pretty in the end."

So Jen quickly whipped up a list of all the tables in all the books, I tossed them into TextWrangler and sorted them all, then quickly dumped it into the layout.

I tossed a PDF of that page around to a few people and they said "great idea!" I printed it out, went over it with my hiliter and made a few changes, and ... never noticed that the first line was wrongly alphabetized. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But, for something that wasn't planned to be in the book and only came about as a near-last-minute conspiracy between Jen and I, I think it worked out pretty well! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SincereAgape]

Cain's at it again. Cain's at it again baby (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Malachi]

Cain? Are you confused because Larsine uses the same avatar pic?

[Zolhex]

Ok confusion on spell defence:

From the new PDF hope it's ok I copied and pasted this small bit. All bolding is my doing and Itallics are my comments.

When a protected character is targeted with a spell, she rolls Counterspelling dice in addition to the appropriate attribute (Body or Willpower) for the resistance test.

(so the Target rolls counterspelling and attribute dice?)

If multiple protected characters are targeted by the same spell, the Counterspelling dice are rolled only once and each target is protected equally.

(now the magic user rolls counterspelling dice and the target rolls attribute dice only?)

In the given example:

Amul is protecting three of his allies with spell defense when they are targeted by a Manaball spell. Each of the three rolls their own Willpower to defend against the spell, getting 1 hit each. Amul only rolls his Counterspelling once, getting 2 hits. The Counterspelling hits are added to the hits generated by each target’s Willpower, so each gets 3 hits (1 + 2) to defend against the Manaball spell.

(again this says the magic user rolls only counterspelling the target(s) roll the attribute dice)

So to me it seems it is supposed to be the magic user rolls only counterspelling dice no attribute dice allowed (provided the magic user is not the target of the spell) while the target of the spell rolls only their attribute am I right?

If so then the text in the first sentance of the 2nd paragraph needs tweaking thanks for the read.

[Tiger Eyes]

If it's a single person being protected, they roll Counterspelling + attribute. If multiple people are protected, they roll attribute, and the mage rolls counterspelling, and the counterspelling hits apply equally to all their hits. This is because each person is protected equally by counterspelling (rather than having Bob get 2 hits with the counterspelling dice, Lucy get 4 hits, and Becky get 1 hit).

The sentence and paragraph seem to explain this clearly, and do not appear to need tweaking to me.

P. 185, Spell Defense

When a protected character is targeted with a spell, she rolls
Counterspelling dice in addition to the appropriate attribute (Body or
Willpower) for the resistance test. Hits generated on this test reduce the
net hits of the spell’s caster as with any Opposed Test. If multiple protected
characters are targeted by the same spell, the Counterspelling dice
are rolled only once and each target is protected equally.

[Larsine]

The sidebar on page 51 is called "Body Shops and Clinics" but the topic in the box is "Fashion Brands". The "Body Shops and Clincs" is already used on page 41.

Lars

[Larsine]

Lots of inconsistency in page references in the Skills chapter, along with som other mistakes:

p122: Arcana (Logic)
Wrong: See Enchanting, p. 178.
Right: See Arcane, p 177, and The Focus Formula, p. 190.

p130: Using Arcana
Wrong: See The Awakened World, p. 176.
Right: See Arcana, p 177, and The Focus Formula, p. 190.

p130: Using Astral Perception
Astral Perception is not a skill, nor a skill group, so it doesn't belong in the "Using Specific Skills" section

p130: Using Astral Combat
Wrong: See The Awakened World, p. 176.
Right: See Astral Combat, p. 193.

p130: Using Biotech
Biotech is not a skill, but a skill group so the heading should be "Using Biotech Skills", just like "Using Stealth Skills" on page 136

p130: Using Build or Repair
Build or Repair is not a skill, nor a skill group, so it doesn't belong in the "Using Specific Skills" section

p133: Using Conjuring
Conjuring is not a skill, but a skill group so the heading should be "Using Conjuring Skills", just like "Using Stealth Skills" on page 136

p133: Using Conjuring Skills
Wrong: See The Awakened World, p. 176.
Right: See Summoning, p. 188, Banishing, p. 188, and Binding, p. 188.

p133: Using Enchanting
Wrong: See The Awakened World, p. 190.
Right: See Enchanting, p. 190.

p139: Lifting and Carrying (STR + BOD)
Wrong: A character can lift 5 kilograms per point Strength
Right: A character can lift 5 kilograms per point of Strength

Lars

[Larsine]

p122 Unarmed Combat (Agility)
Wrong: Specializations: Cyber-Implants, Martial Arts, Subdual Combat, Parrying
Right: Specializations: Cyber-Implants, Martial Arts, Subdual Combat, Block

p158 Superior Position
Wrong: ...defend against it (no dodge or parry).
Right: ...defend against it (no block, dodge or parry).

p159 Superior Position
Wrong: (and thus dodge/parry them)
Right: (and thus block/dodge/parry them)

p163 Acid Damage
Wrong: the acid is washed off or a base is applied.
Right: the acid is washed off.
It is nearly impossible to get the right amount of base to neutralize the acid, and thus you will just do more damage. You wash off acid, and dilute it with lots of water, but never ever add base as it will just make things worse.

p170 Driver Complex Actions and Chase Stunts
Wrong: Break Off (Long Range Only)
Right: Either "Break Off (Extreme Range Only)" or "Break Off (Long and Extreme Range Only)"
It's not logical that you can break off at long range, but not at extreme range which is further away.

p171 Sensor Test
The headline should be at the top of the second column, not at the bottom of the first column.

Lars

[Andinel]

Are we supposed to put typos in this thread also?

There's an extra ) at the end of the dice pool modifier for Visibility Impaired in the melee combat modifiers table on p.157.

[Adam]

p130: Using Build or Repair
Build or Repair is not a skill, nor a skill group, so it doesn't belong in the "Using Specific Skills" section

Intentional. That one is a signpost for people looking for Build and Repair in the place that, well, the place that I always look for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Andinel]

Speaking of Build or Repair, how do I find the intervals for a test like that? Or are they just based off of the regular extended test interval table?

[Zurai]

p163 Acid Damage
Wrong: the acid is washed off or a base is applied.
Right: the acid is washed off.
It is nearly impossible to get the right amount of base to neutralize the acid, and thus you will just do more damage. You wash off acid, and dilute it with lots of water, but never ever add base as it will just make things worse.

That's assuming that the base is, itself, caustic to skin. This is a poor assumption. Ammonia is a base; it is not caustic to the touch, even in wounds. In fact, ammonia is sometimes used to treat acidic venoms.

Now, attempting to apply sodium hydroxide (ie, lye) to neutralize acids eating away at your skin... yeah, that'd be a bad idea.

[Draco18s]

That's assuming that the base is, itself, caustic to skin. This is a poor assumption. Ammonia is a base; it is not caustic to the touch, even in wounds. In fact, ammonia is sometimes used to treat acidic venoms.

Try the box of baking soda in your fridge. Anyone ever mixed that with vinegar (AN ACID!) as a kid?

[Larsine]

Any Chemistry 101 class will teach you to apply water to any acid or base accidents, and loads of water. Water is the safe way to go, so why even experiment with base/acid?

It might take longer time to find the base.
You might not find a base with the right strength.
You might not apply the right amount of base to neutralize the acid, if might be to strong or not strong enough.
You might accidentally take somthing that is not base, for example another acid.
You might apply a caustic base, in which case you might make things worse.

Water can never harm you, unless you pour it into the lungs. Alway go for water with any chemistry accident.

If you spill some sulfuric acid on your skin, you want to wash it off with copious amounts of running cold water as soon as possible. Water is less dense than sulfuric acid, so if you pour water on the acid, the reaction occurs on top of the liquid.

Just take a look in you household chemistry cupboard. What does it say to do in case of accidents?

4 different kinds of base and 3 differet kind of acids (in my cupboard) all says the same:

If take internally: Rinse you mouth thoroughly with water and drink plenty of water. By continous discomfort, see your doctor.
Skin contact: Wash you skin thoroughly with plenty of water.
Eye contact: Rinse with plenty of water for at least 5 minutes. Remove contact linses. See you doctor.

Lars

[Larsine]

p190 "The Astral World" the headline should be at to top of page 191, not at the bottom of page 190.

Lars

[Andinel]

Any Chemistry 101 class will teach you to apply water to any acid or base accidents, and loads of water. Water is the safe way to go, so why even experiment with base/acid?

It might take longer time to find the base.
You might not find a base with the right strength.
You might not apply the right amount of base to neutralize the acid, if might be to strong or not strong enough.
You might accidentally take somthing that is not base, for example another acid.
You might apply a caustic base, in which case you might make things worse.

Water can never harm you, unless you pour it into the lungs. Alway go for water with any chemistry accident.

If you spill some sulfuric acid on your skin, you want to wash it off with copious amounts of running cold water as soon as possible. Water is less dense than sulfuric acid, so if you pour water on the acid, the reaction occurs on top of the liquid.

Just take a look in you household chemistry cupboard. What does it say to do in case of accidents?

4 different kinds of base and 3 differet kind of acids (in my cupboard) all says the same:

If take internally: Rinse you mouth thoroughly with water and drink plenty of water. By continous discomfort, see your doctor.
Skin contact: Wash you skin thoroughly with plenty of water.
Eye contact: Rinse with plenty of water for at least 5 minutes. Remove contact linses. See you doctor.

Lars

Actually, what a chemistry lab taught me recently was that you wash any exposed area for at least 15 minutes with water. Don't apply base to an acid if you come in contact with it, and even if there's a spill, you need to absorb it, not neutralize it. Neutralization can come later. So in this case, applying a base to an acidic wound probably would be a very bad idea.

[Muspellsheimr]

p.327
Armor Table
Helmet, Chemical Seal, & Environmental Adaptation are not indented underneath Full Body Armor
Helmet is not indented underneath Urban Explorer Jumpsuit
There is no explanation for why Full Body Armor appears in italics, or what it means

[pbangarth]

p.198
Under Metamagic, paragraph 2 says, "Note that adepts can only learn the metamagic techniques of Centering, Flexible Signature and Masking."

That is immediately followed by the Metamagic Technique Adept Centering (Adepts Only).

[Andinel]

Just a note, some of the bookmarks in the PDF take you to the wrong page. I don't have a list right now, but I can come up with one and post it here later.

EDIT: One more thing I just noticed: on p.184 in the example, the text should read "Direct Combat spells", not "Directed Combat spells".

[Rotbart van Dain...]

p. 351, Vehicle Table - All Aircrafts are still missing their Sensor Attribute.

[Andinel]

p.190 - The heading for "The Astral World" should be moved to the top of p.191

[hermit]

p.128 "Pilot Anthroform (Reaction)"
correct: "Pilot Walker (Reaction)"

[Coldan]

Some AP values of flechette are still wrong.

Ares Viper Slivergun (AP +2)
HK XM30 - Shotgun (AP +1)
Remington 990 w/ Flechette (AP +2)

[Angier]

the mentioned specialities for walkers should also include those type of drones with more than 4 legs.

[Andinel]

Some AP values of flechette are still wrong.

Ares Viper Slivergun (AP +2)
HK XM30 - Shotgun (AP +1)
Remington 990 w/ Flechette (AP +2)

The +5 for the AP on the Remington Roomsweeper w/flechettes is in the wrong column, also.

And the HK XM30 doesn't say that it uses flechettes in shotgun mode, so I think that AP +1 is right.

[Muspellsheimr]

p.128 "Pilot Anthroform (Reaction)"
correct: "Pilot Walker (Reaction)"

Actually, Pilot Anthroform is correct.

[Angier]

You would consider an arachnoid walker drone an anthroform?

[Ayeohx]

Page 28 under the sidebar "Other Geopolitical Events":

This entry is either out of place or the date is incorrect.

"2062 New European Economic
Community formed by states and
megacorporations."

Also, in the pdf, the word "New" isn't searchable, comes out as "N ew" when cut and pasted.

[hermit]

Actually, Pilot Anthroform is correct.

Well, maybe changing that skill to walkers, and making anthroforms a specialisation (and Octopeds another, given there are three canon spider-ish walkers) would make sense.

[Muspellsheimr]

Okay, so I may have been wrong - I thought anthroforms where legged (regardless of how many) creatures or objects. Turns out, that phrase is barely accurate for a bipedal specialization, & would likely better be referred to as bipedal...

[Draco18s]

Okay, so I may have been wrong - I thought anthroforms where legged (regardless of how many) creatures or objects. Turns out, that phrase is barely accurate for a bipedal specialization, & would likely better be referred to as bipedal...

That's the funny thing about Latin: anthro- means "human."

[hermit]

That would be my point, yes.

Could it be that this is supposed to be "arthropods"? Then it would refer to things with a non-denominated number of legs. And the specialisations on things with a specific number of legs would make sense. Of course, 'Walkers' would still be more intuitive, I think.

[pbangarth]

That's the funny thing about Latin: anthro- means "human."

Actually, it's from the Greek.

[Raizer]

p 183/184
Note that objects targeted by Combat spells get to
resist the damage as they would any ranged attack; use their Armor
rating x 2 (or just Armor against spells with elemental effects) to resist
the damage (Barriers, p. 166).

Should this be any combat spells or only indirect combat spells? If so, what indirect combat spells dont have an elemental effect? This would contract the example given on 184 about the ganger and the bike if its used for combat spells

Also, is this before or after the threshold test? Also, does the force of the spell affect the threshold hits? IE: If I cast at force 3 can I never affect a highly processed object? Or, does it only count hits after hitting the threshold?

[Draco18s]

Actually, it's from the Greek.

Touche. I was a little quick in my posting.

[MJBurrage]

On the map of North America:

• Concord, New Hampshire is misspelled.
• There should be a border line between Newfoundland and Quebec.
• I was under the impression from past maps, that the two Virginia counties across the Chesapeake bay (attached to Maryland) were part of North Virginia, but the SR4A map shows them as part of CAS. See the Sixth World Wiki map for more detail.

[Falconer]

Should this be any combat spells or only indirect combat spells? If so, what indirect combat spells dont have an elemental effect? This would contract the example given on 184 about the ganger and the bike if its used for combat spells

Actually I can easily think of a case where indirect type spell wouldn't have an associated element.

Combat spell: Shockwave, AOE (or even single target)
blah blah blah.... Creates a wall of compressed air that slams into targets damaging them. Treat targets as force/2 less body for knockdown effects. (think HE bombs).

It does damage, it's obviously a spell, (and the system has rules for making your own like I just did), but it isn't elemental damage per se. Though you'll note I worked an elemental like damage side effect into it for balance sake.

[Angier]

Spells like Punch are indirect and lack an elemental effect. It is pure kinetic force hurled ad something.

And affecting air is an elemental effect.

[MJBurrage]

Certified Credstick (page 331)

• The description says to "see the Certified Credstick Table, below", but the table is on page 267
• The searchable text (under the PDF image) is spelled "Certied" both times.

Related to my Virginia question (previous post) I now realize that the map shows all of Virginia (including all of North Virginia) as CAS territory. No one adjusted the border to the south correctly.

[Adam]

Certified Credstick (page 331)

• The searchable text (under the PDF image) is spelled "Certied" both times.

There is no PDF image over the searchable text; all the text in the book is live. What you may be encountering is a problem with your PDF reader properly recognizing words that have ligatures in them -- the special "fi" character in cerified. I just checked in both the latest version of Adobe Acrobat, and the latest version of Preview for OSX, and they were both able to search for, find, and copy the word "certified" out of that page without a problem, in all instances.

[Andinel]

Okay, I'm going through the PDF and finding bookmarks that point to the wrong page.
p.46 - Ares Macrotechnology bookmark - Since none of the other megas have bookmarks, shouldn't the font size be reduced for Ares and the bookmark removed?

p.157 - Since there are no bookmarks for other tables, the bookmark for the Melee Modifier Table should be removed.

p.190 - The heading for "The Astral World" should be moved to the top of p.191 (and the bookmark adjusted as such)

p.191 - The bookmark for Astral Signatures points to p.191. It should go to p.192 instead.

p.194 - The bookmark for Adepts points to p.194. It should go to p.195 instead.

p.197 - The bookmark for Initiation points to p.197. It should go to p.198 instead.

p.198 - The bookmark for Foci points to p.198. It should go to p.199 instead.

p.199 - The bookmark for Power Foci points to p.199. It should go to p.200 instead.

p.202 - The bookmark for Street Grimoire points to p.202. It should go to p.203 instead.

p.209 - The bookmark for Manipulation Spells points to p.209. It should go to p.210 instead.

p.295 - For some reason, there's an extra bookmark here for Friends and Foes. It should be removed, and all the content under it moved to under the Critters bookmark.

p.297 - The bookmark for Weaknesses points to p.297. It should go to p.298 instead.

p.312 - The "b" in the bookmark for Availability and Buying Gear is not capitalized. It should be.

And there you have it. The complete list of problems with the PDF bookmarks.

[Adam]

Interesting, since the TOC was automatically generated and the bookmarks generated automatically based on that ... some of those -- like the extra Friends or Foes heading -- I've already debugged. The rest will be fun to hunt down! For that special brand of InDesign fun.

Thanks for painstakingly hunting all those down. We did a "Dartboard test" and didn't have any issues, but didn't test each and every bookmark.

[MJBurrage]

There is no PDF image over the searchable text; all the text in the book is live. What you may be encountering is a problem with your PDF reader properly recognizing words that have ligatures in them -- the special "fi" character in cerified. I just checked in both the latest version of Adobe Acrobat, and the latest version of Preview for OSX, and they were both able to search for, find, and copy the word "certified" out of that page without a problem, in all instances.

I use PDF-XChange Viewer. I had not checked Acrobat Reader, because I did not have the same issue on other pages (no idea why)

For anyone wondering why use PDF-XChange Viewer, it lets you edit bookmarks, and add text boxes (which means I can insert errata in to my PDF books).

[Muspellsheimr]

p.48 Shaiwase
"What don't they do?" should be
"What don't they do?"

[Angier]

p. 283

The Red Samurai Detachment and their Lieutenant each have Cybereyes Rating 3, but only Mods for Rating 2. Maybe it should be Rating 2 (as it was pre-SR4A)?

[hermit]

p. 51, sidebar fashion brands:
Laurentine de Lion (Upper class Professional) Soul of Seoul (Neo-Oriental Exec)
should be
Laurentine de Lion (Upper class Professional), Soul of Seoul (Neo-Oriental Exec)

CD/Common Denominator (Horizon) Chungo-Ko (Eastern Tiger),
should be
CD/Common Denominator (Horizon), Chungo-Ko (Eastern Tiger),

Two commas are missing.

[Xerxos]

p. 131, social modifiers table, Con Modifiers, Character has plausible-seeming Fsupporting evidence

[Xerxos]

Vision Sensors and Imaging Devices (p. 332) have a capacity, but Vision Enhancements(p. 333) have no capacity cost

[Rotbart van Dain...]

p. 331: The costs in the Sillsofts Table are missing the ¥

[Unnamed Technoma...]

for the sprites on page 242 there are no Res (Resonance) attribute listed. that is in line with the BBB but not with Unwired

[pbangarth]

The rest will be fun to hunt down! For that special brand of InDesign fun.

I'm using InDesign for my doctoral dissertation. I feel for you.

[Muspellsheimr]

The Night Shift story is difficult to read. I suggest changing the text color to something with more contrast to the green background.

[Prime Mover]

Anyone mention the gear section under Street Sami? false ID's and there ratings are broken up by a list of gear and wired reflexes is listed in both gear and augmentations.

[Sphinx]

Vision Sensors and Imaging Devices (p. 332) have a capacity, but Vision Enhancements(p. 333) have no capacity cost

The ratings of vision sensors and imaging devices equals the number of vision enhancements that can be applied to the device. (p. 332)

[Prime Mover]

Naroject mentioned as being used with dart guns. Still no such weapons stated for SR4 outside of mouth dart correct?

Edit: I stand corrected, dart weapons included !

[Method]

Don't know if this has been noted yet:

Page 296 under Innate Spell Power: redundant statements about drain.

[Falconer]

Hmm a quick search on 'airburst' has shown no relevant hits.

P322. Accessories, reduces scatter from 3d6 to 1d6 for both rockets & gl's.
p325. reiterates rocket/missiles w/ airburst reduce scatter to 1d6
p155. Scatter Chart. A flat 2d6-1(-sensor rating) for everything.
p155. airburst grenades only roll 2d6 for scatter


It doesn't make sense as a modifier reducing (3d6-2hit)-(2d6-1hit)=(1d6-1hit).
Also the scatter table looks well just wrong... 4d6-1 per net hit renders most rockets completely useless (especially the anti-vehicles w/ -4/m reduction).

My gut suggests to me that the combat section might be wrong. As the equipment section is actually playable. Go ahead use a LAW, I dare you w/o airburst or anything at 4d6-1hit scatter... even w/ a godly dice pool almost no one is ever hitting anything w/ an RPG or even getting close.

Considering how EXPENSIVE rockets are (more expensive than many guns just for a single Anti-vehicle round). I'd say they better at least be effective. Especially since heavy weapons pools are normally lesser than firearms pools.

[Draco18s]

I saw this over in the other thread and didn't think anything of it, but 4d6 -1 per hit -[Sensor Rating] still gives you...

4d6-4-3*

Or...about....2d6 scatter uncompensated (7 is the average on two dice).

*Sensor 6 rockets are balls expensive, even at sensor 6 you're looking at roughly 1d6+3 scatter.

[Falconer]

Draco: and anti-vehicle rockets lose -4DV per meter... which means even with a 1d6-1/hit airburst link.

You really need a good 3 net hits to score a direct hit on any vehicle, just from the random deviation let alone the competing test against the vehicle not to get hit. Translation you typically need 3 net hits just to hit an unaware non-dodging vehicle... god help you if the vehicle has a competent driver trying to avoid getting hit.

Hence why I suspect the table in the combat section is in error.

[Draco18s]

Draco: and anti-vehicle rockets lose -4DV per meter...

I wasn't even factoring that in. I was doing the math to find the average scatter based on an average number of hits (leaning towards good, so I picked 4). Blast size doesn't matter a whole lot if you're always going to be missing by up to 10 meters (i.e. roughly the size of a frag grenade's effect).

[Larsine]

p282 CorpSec Lieutenant:
Wrong: Condition Monitor Boxes: 10 (includes +1 box for cyberarm)
Right: Condition Monitor Boxes: 10
He has no cyberarm, wich fits with his Essence=6.
But he has Body=3 and Willpower=4, which gives him CM=10 in any case.

p283 Tir Ghosts
Wrong: Thermographic Smoke Grenade
Right: Thermal Smoke Grenade

p304 Great Dragons
Wrong: Skills: Conjuring 8, Flight 6, Sorcery 12
Right: Skills: Conjuring Skill Group 8, Flight 6, Sorcery Skill Group 12

p311 Physical Searches

What if someone pats your character down, looking for contraband? In this case, the searching character makes an Agility + Intuition Test, and Concealability modifiers only apply at half their value (round down).

That actually means it is easyer to spot a katana (+6), than to find it with a physical search (+3)

p314 Common Costs:
Rail fare 0.2Â¥ per 1 km
Bus fare 0.1Â¥ per 1 km
Bus/Rail 1-month pass 250Â¥
These three should no be tabbed under "Air travel"

p318 Ares Viper Slivergun
Wrong: AP +2
Right: AP +5

p318 Remington Roomsweeper w/ flechettes
+5 should be tabbed one more column

p320 Remington 990 w/ flechettes
Wrong: AP +2
Right: AP +5

p328 Accessory table
Wrong: Modifi ed for BTL/hot sim
Right: Modified for BTL/hot sim

p330 Tag Eraser
Wrong: The eraser cannot burn out security RFID chips (p. 329).
Right: The eraser cannot burn out security RFID tags (p. 329).

p332 Tools
Wrong: Shops and facilities both are stocked with standard spare parts.
Right: Shops and facilities are both stocked with standard spare parts.

p345 Cyber Microgrenade Launcher
Wrong: Blast -2/meter
Right: As grenade

Lars

[Larsine]

p15 1st column, 3rd paragraph:
Wrong: In the harsh reality of 2070 where profit is the most important
Right: In the harsh reality of 2072 where profit is the most important

p15 1st column, 5th paragraph:
Wrong: dystopian near-future of 2070
Right: dystopian near-future of 2072

p18 2nd column, 5th paragraph:
Wrong: Security in 2070 has become an art form
Right: Security in 2072 has become an art form

Lars

[Larsine]

Vision Sensors and Imaging Devices (p. 332) have a capacity, but Vision Enhancements(p. 333) have no capacity cost

Ditto for the Audio Sensors and Audio Enhancements (p333).

Lars

[Larsine]

Anyone mention the gear section under Street Sami? false ID's and there ratings are broken up by a list of gear and wired reflexes is listed in both gear and augmentations.

That is the gear that the False ID is for:

So it should be understood as:
Fake Licens (rating 4, for Ares Predator IV #1)
Fake Licens (rating 4, for Ares Predator IV #2)
Fake Licens (rating 4, for Katana)
Fake Licens (rating 4, for Ingram Smartgun X)
Fake Licens (rating 4, for Wired Reflexes)

Lars

[Prime Mover]

p320 Remington 990 w/ flechettes
Wrong: AP +2
Right: AP +5

If the weapon has a natural -1AP before applying weapon DV wouldn't this negative still affect the (f) rounds?

Making it a +4 AP

[Larsine]

If the weapon has a natural -1AP before applying weapon DV wouldn't this negative still affect the (f) rounds?

Making it a +4 AP

That would be the logical way to do it, but it is not the way it is done with other weapons:

Remington Roomsweeper –1 AP
w/flechettes +5 AP

Lars

[Larsine]

I've found countless places where 2070 should have been updatet to 2072, at least to fit with the backcover which states "The year is 2072" and with page 18 which states "Shadowrun is set only sixty-three years in the future".

But don't do a simple search and replace, since som places actually should be 2070, and some are 2070s which is OK.

Having a mix of 2070 and 2072 is confusing and not very logical.

Lars

[Rotbart van Dain...]

That is the gear that the False ID is for:

It's too detailed, anyway - Licences in SR4 are pretty abstract and can cover whole categories, p. 313.

[Larsine]

It's too detailed, anyway - Licences in SR4 are pretty abstract and can cover whole categories, p. 313.

Not according to the rules:

Each type of item/activity requires a separate license.

Lars

[Rotbart van Dain...]

In fact, exactly according to the rules: 'each type of item', not 'each item'. Also see the example on p. 313 - it's a 'firearms licence'.

[Larsine]

That depends how you read the rules:

For example, you are allowed to purchase and own a gun when you have a firearms license for it.

Emphasis mine.

So it's a licence for the specific weapon, not a general licence for all firearms.

Otherwise I'll just take a Weapon License, and Cyberware License and a Magic License, and be able to carry and use nearly anything.

After all "Weapon" and "Cyberware" are types of items.

If you look at the Gunslinger Adept you will notice that she also has "Fake Gun License (Colt Manhunter, Rating 4)", which supports the rule that you will need a seperate license for each and every weapon.

Lars

[Angier]

Or that you have to define which items are covered by a particular license.

[Draco18s]

Or that you have to define which items are covered by a particular license.

Such as "this one license covers all of my existing weapons.
Though I will point out that most ShadowRunners don't care about licenses due to the Forbidden equipment in the trunk.

[Tiger Eyes]

Officially, each different item that is restricted requires a license, as do some things that are legal (drivers license, pet dog license). However, any GM can decide to houserule licenses, or roll them into lifestyles (my personal favorite), or figure LoneStar has better things to do than to examine your commlink to see if you have a license for the spell casting focus they don't see. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

In our game, when we buy fake IDs, they come with basic licenses (drivers license, for example) and we pay extra for things like guns and magic (Magic doubles cost of fake SINs in our game, weapons add 1,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ) and then figure it's all covered. My GM does not like paperwork or dealing with those little details (hey, we don't have to pay for lifestyles, either).

[Rotbart van Dain...]

So it's a licence for the specific weapon, not a general licence for all firearms.

The RAW example is a 'firearms licence' and 'type of item' - the 'it' part isn't exclusive.

Otherwise I'll just take a Weapon License, and Cyberware License and a Magic License, and be able to carry and use nearly anything.

Going with the 'firearms licence' example, it would be Melee Weapons, Projectile Weapons, Firearms, Firearm Accessories, Ammunition, Grenades, Armor, Software, Sensors, Security Devices, Chemicals, Cyberware, Bioware, Concealed Carry, Security Service, Pilot Aircraft, Pilot Ground Craft Licences for the 'Freelancing Security Consultant'.
And that's a nightmare already.

Officially, each different item that is restricted requires a license, as do some things that are legal (drivers license, pet dog license).

Then officially, the current rule and example are wrong?

In either case, it's an errata. And in the case of a 'each single item is a licence'... well, I'm sure the fun it adds to the table to read the licences for your gear aloud to the GM is enormous... for every single of the dozens of SINs.

[ElFenrir]

We sorta have the ''roll 'em together'' method, with a touch of lifestyle. High or Luxury? Yeah, you're pretty much covered. (Alternately, if you use the Lifestyle Points, you can lump this perhaps under ''Security''.) We just sorta pop Cyber, Bio, Firearms, Melee for those who have lesser lifestyles. It might make it easy, but no way do I feel like keeping track of 14 licenses for everything, as a player OR GM.

Legality can be a pretty gray area. For example, if a PC served 6 years in the UCAS military and has some mil-spec ware, and actually left with a good record(getting into running later, let's say)...I'm not picturing that the lieutenants or whatnot get their bone lacing ripped out when their duty is up. Not in my games, anyway. So some folks I always pictured is viable having certain ware.(Bone lacing, in any case, as a GM I'm lighter on. Reason? Bone lacing is forbidden, while bone density is not only perfectly 100% legal, it does the same thing, with a minor trade-lacing gives some armor, density can go up to +4 damage dice to soak-Titanium only goes up to +3.) I really see no reason why one is 100% legal and the other is outright forbidden.

Then again, the legality bits have always confused me when it comes to some things. Bone lacing=forbidden. Wired Reflexes=restricted(and usually more dangerous than the former.) Bone density=legal. Dermal Plating and Orthoskin-Restricted. Dermal Sheath=totally legal(and better than Plating. I'm using my Augmentation book.) Strength enhancement on cyberarms-AkA the Stat That Doesn't Do Much=restricted. AGILITY enhancement=aka the Combat God stat=LEGAL. I just have to scratch my head. (The only thing I can think of in the case of cyber and bio legality differences, like the Density vs. Lacing, is 'money talks', and apparently people with a lot of money aren't trying to use them for nefarious means. But...erm, still. Agility legal and Strength you need a license for? No sir, I don't get it.) In any case, in our games we play it a bit looser, and this stuff mainly comes into play with things like travel, going into a very high-class high-sec area, etc, and even then we have ways around it.

[Larsine]

p324 Ammunotions table:
The "Cost" is not alligned correctly with the prices for the ammo.

p335 Exotic Melee Weapon table, Monofilament Chainsaw:
The "–2" under "AP" is not alligned correctly, or the "AP" over the "-2" is not alligned correctly.

Lars

[Larsine]

Then officially, the current rule and example are wrong?

Or mayby you just read them wrong. They make perfect sense for me, and the examples (Gundslinger Adept, Street Samurai) fits the way I read the rules.

But then again this could be another OR/success discussion.

Lars

[Ryu]

@Larsine: This is the thread were I can tell you how much I love what you did? Thank you very much! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif)

[Angier]

@Licenses

As around the globe of the 6th world different nations have different legal rulings depending the need for licenses etc I think the point is rather mood as the GM has to rule how the PCs are affected by this need.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

They make perfect sense for me,[...]

So it makes perfekt sense that by RAW, you can have a firearms licence? Good to hear.
Especially becase that's what RAW says anyway:

Each type of item/activity requires a separate license.

[...]and the examples (Gundslinger Adept, Street Samurai) fits the way I read the rules.

In that case, I'm wondering how that does compute for you. On the other hand, archetypes have and had so many errors that they don't count as reference for anything.
Of course, if you honestly think it's sensible to have a licence list a whole page long, for each SIN...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Semantics... What works for you may not work for someone else...

In our games, we need liceses for each Type... Ie.. Light Pistols, Heavy Pistols, Assault Rifles (Yeah Right... try and find a licens for that), etc... This is the middle road between the two, Not exactly a "Firearms" license, but not a "Colt Manhunter" License either...

Fairly similar to real life... You need a Conceal/Carry License where I live to carry a Pistol... Not a "Firearms License" or a "Glock 32 License"...

It workd for us to use the Common Sense approach...

My Two Cents

[Synner667]

In our games, we need liceses for each Type... Ie.. Light Pistols, Heavy Pistols, Assault Rifles (Yeah Right... try and find a licens for that), etc... This is the middle road between the two, Not exactly a "Firearms" license, but not a "Colt Manhunter" License either...

Fairly similar to real life... You need a Conceal/Carry License where I live to carry a Pistol... Not a "Firearms License" or a "Glock 32 License"...

It workd for us to use the Common Sense approach...

My Two Cents

Sounds the most sensible to me.

Doing it the HERO way is the way we do it - 'x' character points for a characters to start with Non-Lethal Pistols/Blades/Unarmed Combat [above a specific level] License, etc.

Referring to the HERO or GURPS rules usually gives a good answer for almost all of the problems with SR 4.

[ElFenrir]

I kinda like how it's played rather loose in the rules, letting tables sort of come up with their own things for this.

We don't like a lot of bookkeeping for stuff like this, so generic ''firearms'' ''mil-spec weaponry'' ''cyberware'' and ''bioware'' works well with us(we also have ''chemical'' and ''high explosive'' areas, for the chemists and demolitionists out there, since they are different enough from the rest.) We call ''Class A magic'' anything that's not a health or detection type spell, and most illusion spells.

This basically covers everything with 7 licenses. Granted, I don't think we ran across one character who actually needed *all* of these. Of course, only stuff with an R+ is really needed for this. (I count mil-spec weaponry as anything that runs under the Heavy Weapons category.) Having 3,000 licenses for every class and grade of stuff is much more of a headache than I need at a table. Just tell me what you are buying licenses for at chargen and there you go. Of course, you might need to get new ones later in game, but I try to cut down unnecessary bookeeping. Does this make some stuff a bit easier? Sure, but we don't play the game to hose the PCs at every waking moment, we play to have fun watching our characters grow and mingle.

Actually, mentioning a positive quality for that kind of thing sounds neat, though. I might even do a version that has one negative tied to it-you need a SIN(SINner negative quality.)For every 5 BP, you are essentially licensed for one category of your choice. Of course, it's cheaper in game, but those are fake licenses, and these are, for all intents and purposes, the real deal.

[Angier]

btw

@devs

any updated ETA for the compiled errata?

[Larsine]

@Larsine: This is the thread were I can tell you how much I love what you did? Thank you very much! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif)

Thanks, I just do what I find most natural. I do however wonder how 11 official proofreaders can miss so many errors.

Lars

[Draco18s]

Thanks, I just do what I find most natural. I do however wonder how 11 official proofreaders can miss so many errors.

Well, I don't know either, but I do know that mistakes can be made, even easy to spot ones get through. For instance, just last week there was an article in the newspaper about the current year 20009 economy.

[Larsine]

Well, I don't know either, but I do know that mistakes can be made, even easy to spot ones get through. For instance, just last week there was an article in the newspaper about the current year 20009 economy.

Damn, I fell asleep and woke up 18000 years later. That beats Sleping Beauty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Lars

[Draco18s]

Damn, I fell asleep and woke up 18000 years later. That beats Sleping Beauty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Lars

Yup.. And the economy still sucks.

[Freejack]

Technically I don't believe every proofreader proofed the entire book. I proofed several chapters and then ran through others once or twice as we got to the deadline. It is harder to re-proof the chapter you did the first time (at least for me). I did catch a lot of errors and the others caught even more (I'm more of a spelling guy than grammar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ). That there are so few is quite gratifying.

I am specifically looking in this thread for the ones caught in the chapters I proofed though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Carl

[Tiger Eyes]

My proofers did an amazing job. Really. Consider that for the 30 page Wireless World chapter, they actually generated 50 pages of proofreading corrections. Or the wonderful job they did reviewing the sample characters - (complete with discussions over 5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) clips - LOL) - through 3 proofing passes each. Some of the errors are ones they caught, but somehow (I dunno, from the hundreds and hundreds of comments they made) slipped through the cracks. I appreciate every blood-and-sweat filled moment they spent (and yeah, I'm still bringing cookies for you guys & gals at GenCon).

[Draco18s]

Damn it, now I have to go to GenCon!

[Freejack]

Ooo, cookies. Can't wait now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Carl

[Zurai]

Thanks, I just do what I find most natural. I do however wonder how 11 official proofreaders can miss so many errors.

Lars

A 350 page large book (like the SR4 core book) will have ~800 words per page for 280,000 words. Assuming editors and proofreaders catch 99.9% of all errors (and only considering things like typos and incorrect data as errors, for this example), there will still be 280 errors in the book. Even with a completely astounding 99.99% accuracy, there'll be 28 typos or data errors. Of course, that's assuming that every word is an error to start with. Let's reduce it to 1 error per 10 words. That's 28 simple errors for 99.9% accuracy and 2.8 for 99.99% accuracy.

Then add in all the complex errors on top (entries in separate parts of the book that give different rules for the same action, etc). It's really not that hard to have a massive error list for a published rulebook.

[Muspellsheimr]

And under your assumption that there is one error per 10 words, the authors are very shitty writers. I am nowhere near the level of a professional writer, & I would estimate I have at most 1 error per 50 words, prior to proof-reading.


I do not know if this one has mentioned (did not double-check the existing list), but p.252, the RUNNING THE SHADOWS header is a third of the way down the page.

[Draco18s]

And I'd say proofreaders are 99.9% accurate. I might give them 90% accuracy.

That leaves 560 errors. Even at 99% accuracy that's still 56 typos.

[Cardul]

Semantics... What works for you may not work for someone else...

In our games, we need liceses for each Type... Ie.. Light Pistols, Heavy Pistols, Assault Rifles (Yeah Right... try and find a licens for that), etc... This is the middle road between the two, Not exactly a "Firearms" license, but not a "Colt Manhunter" License either...

Fairly similar to real life... You need a Conceal/Carry License where I live to carry a Pistol... Not a "Firearms License" or a "Glock 32 License"...

It workd for us to use the Common Sense approach...

My Two Cents

I know where I live(Florida), not only do you need a Conceal and Carry permit to have a pistol, but you must also register that pistol, and, if it is to leave your home, you also need a transportation permit. So, I can see why they would have the whole "Each weapon with a separate license" approach..remember: Tings are stricter governmentally in the future..(since look how much stricter they have gotten RL just since Shadowrun 1 came out). At least knives are no longer unlicensable like they were in 1st through 3rd.