Best loadouts for street sams, Different augs for different styles Options

[Tyro]

What are some of the best loadouts for a street sam, either at character creation or later? I've been playing around with different augs, and I was wondering what other people like to use.

The character I'm building right now is ambidextrous, with two modular obvious forearms and cyberware gyromounts (and spare synthetic forearms for times when he wants to blend in).

I'm especially interested in different strategies for avoiding damage penalties: trauma dampeners, adrenal pumps, damage compensators, blood circuit control systems, platelet factories, and pain editors.

My GM allows upgrading cyberware for the difference in cost, but only within grade (i.e. rating 1 standard can be upgraded to rating 2 standard for the difference, but you have to rip it out if you want rating 2 alpha).

[Artemis]

it really depends, you seem to be going for the old gunslinger type sam but there are the builds for the tank sam, close quarters sam, bio sam ansd so on also race should be taking into consideration either way get your IPs up

[Degausser]

In general:

Getting additional IPs is key, so either Wired Reflexes or (if you have the scratch) Synaptic Boosters. Other then that . . . Muscle Toner is nice for some extra agility (good for both firearms and range), and a Reflex recorder for whatever your poison happens to be. Lastly, something to help you soak damage, like Dermal Plating, Orthoskin, bone lacing, whatever. Other than that, whatever floats your boat. Smartlink eye mods are generally the norm, but some prefer the cheaper option of smartlinked goggles.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Not taking damage is usually better than only avoiding damage modfiers, so go for the Trauma Dampener and Platelet Factories. (The latter now only helps with Physical damage, per SR4A)

Generally, Bioware is the way to go for boosts as it's non-detectable and more essence-friendly... of course, it's more expensive. Orthoskin is especially nice, even on level 1, as it allows you to get the upgrades.

For senses, cyberware still is the route to go - get alphaware or better and cluster them, then put SensorSofts and a TacSoft on the cluster.

[KCKitsune]

I think hands down Move-by-Wire is the BEST bang for your buck. Sure it's expensive money wise and Essence wise, but NO augmentation equals it really. Level 2 MBW gives you +4 to Reaction, +2 to Dodge, AND gives you SkillWires at rating 4. All this for only 85,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and half you Essence... small price for the speed.

[HappyDaze]

I love Orthoskin, but is quite expensive in terms of nuyen costs.

Move-by-Wire is tops in performance, but it makes you think outside the box for ways to get around subtly. Not that it can't be done, but it's certainly not as easy as it would be for Synaptic Boosters.

BTW, a 'Cyber Mask' Physical Illusion spell that just hides augmentations from sensors (limited - doesn't hide from normal vison, touch, etc.) would be a nice trick for a friendly magician to have. It'll be tougher in SR4A with te OR 6, but it's still worth looking into.

[Orangexplosion]

I think hands down Move-by-Wire is the BEST bang for your buck. Sure it's expensive money wise and Essence wise, but NO augmentation equals it really. Level 2 MBW gives you +4 to Reaction, +2 to Dodge, AND gives you SkillWires at rating 4. All this for only 85,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and half you Essence... small price for the speed.

It's also worth noting that Move-by-Wire stacks with Reaction Enhancers, which the other "good" IP booster, Synaptic Booster, does not. So a street samurai with 20 BP in Reaction can reach his augmented max with Rating 2 Move-by-Wire and Rating 2 Reaction Enhancers.

So - +6 REA, +2 Dodge, +2 IP, and Skillwires 4 for 105,000 Nuyen and 3.6 essence loss (cyberware)

The best you can get without Move-by-Wire is this: Wired Reflexes 2, Skill Wires 4, Reaction Enhancers 3, and Reflex Recorder (Dodge). All this, and you are still missing out on 1 REA and 1 Dodge, yet the cost is 80,000, only 25,000 less than the above build, and 4.8 Essence, which is over an entire essence more that the Move-by-Wire build. Also, you are using a Reflex Recorder here to attempt to recreate the boost to dodge - while you can still put that on top of the Move-by-Wire for an additional dodge.

The only real downside to Move-by-Wire (besides the inherent downside to all Cyberware) is that you can't get above rating 1 during character creation without the Restricted Gear positive quality (which at 5 BP, is totally worth it).

Once you have this, I would get Muscle Toner 4 (Another use of Restricted Gear positive quality) and Reflex Recorder in the ranged weapon of your choice. (BF and FA are the best options if you're going to rock super-agility) That's another .9 Essence (bioware) and 42,000 Nuyen.

Some people will suggest Suprathyroid Gland, but for the cost (essence and nuyen) it isn't worth it for Strength you won't use (unless you care to melee with anything but shock weapons) and the Reaction that doesn't stack. Instead if you have the money left, I'd get Bone Density Augmentation rating 4, and use my final allowance of Restricted Gear to get Pain Editor. This is 1.4 Essence (bioware)

So far we're up to 4.75 total essence loss, and 267,000 Nuyen. With Born Rich, you'll be able to probably afford a decent gun, with upgrades, and an Armored Jacket with Full Form Fitting Body Armor, along with commlink and enhanced goggles. Put 40 BP in Agility, 20 in Reaction, 40 in Body, 40 in Willpower, 40 in Intuition, and 20 in Strength. Dump left-over BP into Dodge Automatics, and Edge.

All said and done (as a human) you'll have BOD 5 (9 for DV tests) AGI 9, REA 9, STR 3, CHA 1, INT 5, LOG 1, WIL 5 (6 with Pain Editor) Edge 2+ and Armor 14/10
(With 5 ranks in Dodge, and Spec Ranged, that's 19 dice to Full Dodge Ranged, or 25 for melee. If you do get hit, you roll 23/19 Physical Res. and 20/16 Stun Res. with the inability to go unconscious from stun. Also, with 5 Dice in Automatics and a specialization, plus Reflex Recorder and Smartlink, you're rolling 19 dice to hit with ranged.)

Congrats, you have a Uncouth, Stupid, Soul-less unstoppable combat machine for 400 BP. Good luck with legwork and RPing.

[InfinityzeN]

Pick your target and then go through all the cyber/bio that will get you there. Overall, here are my lists which will include some very expensive and longterm options.

Main Sam
Trauma Dampener & Platelet Factories (It adds up)
IP Booster (best you can get, MBW or Synaptic Boosters)
Suprathyroid Gland (+1 to *ALL* Physical Stats! That includes body)
Muscle Toner (Better Shoot/Stab/Punch/Bash/Sneak/etc)
Reflex Recorder (with your main combat skill/skill group)
Reflex Recorder (Dodge or Gymnastics/Athletics skill group)
Attention Coprocessor -or- Reception Enhancer (+ Perception rolls)

Shooter Sam
Implanted Smartgun
Muscle Toner 4
Genetic Optimization: Agility

A Human, Ork or Elf can get Agility 12 (Human & Ork need Exceptional Agility) which makes you a natural with every Agility skill (Default of 11!).

Melee/Tank Sam
Muscle Augmentation (Melee, optional STR-Recoil rules; Helps Climb/Run/etc)
Bone Density Augmentation or Bone Lacing (Better soak -&- Melee Damage)
Orthoskin -or- Dermal Sheath (Soak -&- Armor)

Sensor Sam
Attention Coprocessor -&- Reception Enhancer (++ Perception rolls baby!)
Ultrasound Sensor -&- Radar Sensor (Invisa'what? See through smoke, darkness, cover, walls!)
Orientation System
Olfactory Booster (Track by smell, chemical analyst, etc)
Enhanced Pheromone Receptors (Social boost -&- Perception bonus)
Taste Booster
Cybereyes 4 -&- Cyberears 4 (Maxed out baby!)
SensorSofts (They roll -&- you roll)
TacSoft (Yea, it is just evil)

Special Skills List
Genetic Optimization: Reflexes (Better Dodge/Drive, Faster Attacks)
Sleep Regulator ("Time... is on my... side" Think about how sleeping far less can be useful)
Extended Volume (More endurance for extended physical activity)
Synthacardium (helps with all that running and jumping and tumbling)
Cyberhand w/ Nanohive, Bio-monitor, Auto-Injector - 6 dose, reusable (You wanna be hard to kill?)
- Nanos: Nanosymbiotes (R: 3), Trauma Control System (R: 6), O-Cells (R: 9), Universal Nantidotes (R: 9)
- Drugs: Antidote (R: 6), Stimulant (R: 6), Trama

[InfinityzeN]

Some people will suggest Suprathyroid Gland, but for the cost (essence and nuyen) it isn't worth it for Strength you won't use (unless you care to melee with anything but shock weapons) and the Reaction that doesn't stack.

I disagree with you here, since the Suprathyroid Gland is not an Inititive booster (so adds to Reaction), increases Agility (better shooty/stabby) -&- increases Body (wear more armor, have more physical damage track) in addition to that Strength gain you knocked.

Strength does help with running and climbing, as well as possiblly carry and recoil comp. Maybe most GMs don't do it, but someone in my game with a Strength of two, wearing crazy armor and lugging crazy weapons around get slapped with crazy penalties.

[Orangexplosion]

I disagree with you here, since the Suprathyroid Gland is not an Inititive booster (so adds to Reaction), increases Agility (better shooty/stabby) -&- increases Body (wear more armor, have more physical damage track) in addition to that Strength gain you knocked.

Strength does help with running and climbing, as well as possiblly carry and recoil comp. Maybe most GMs don't do it, but someone in my game with a Strength of two, wearing crazy armor and lugging crazy weapons around get slapped with crazy penalties.

An initiative booster is anything that boosts your initiative. Reaction Enhancers, Wired Reflexes, Move-by-Wire System, Suprathyroid Gland, Synaptic Boosters are all initiative boosters. Reaction enhancers are compatible with Move-by-Wire and Wired Reflexes, but not with anything else. Niether Suprathyroid Gland or Synaptic Boosters are compatible with anything else.

Also, armor in 2072 is incredibly light and flexible, all the way up to military grade. And weapons are made out of super-light alloys etc etc. While you might not be able to run around doing backflips and dual-wielding assault cannons, a strength of 3 can easily wield an automatic weapon.

[Stahlseele]

don't implant ANYTHING that you can get by using external stuff if you wanna be the swiss army officer kinda guy.
have different needs each run? good, don't replace ware, replace gear, wear only whart you need, if it's not too expansive get rid of it after run and be unconspicious. Also, saves on money/essence too.
MBW and some computer skills and warez network will net you many skills fast and cheap too, once in game, if you know how to . .

[Tyro]

It's been debated back and forth whether Reaction boosters count as Initiative boosters. It's my opinion that they do not; Reaction Enhancers should be compatible with IP boosters, but IP boosters should not be compatible with each other. You can put a reflex recorder on top of a rating 2 MBW, but not a rating 3; as per errata, a recorder boosts skill rating, not dice pool, and so is subject to the 1/2 skill cap. It also means cyber-adepts don't benefit if they're maxing Improved Ability. ActiveSofts were made MUCH more expensive in SR4A (10k/rating point), so Skillwires are significantly less useful now. They're still viable if you can get cracked copies of activesofts, though.

MbW is awesome, no doubt about it, but synaptic boosters 3 + reaction enhancers 3 is MUCH less detectable by scanners (and you twitch less, by fluff).

[WeaverMount]

Some guild lines for optimization
1) don't cyber if you don't have to. A datajack is pointless by RAW. If you can get all the vision mods you need into contacts and your gun scope don't get eyes, similarly never get ears or an implanted com-link.

2) Get 3 IPs. 4 IPs will break your back at chargen. If you can get away with 2 great, think about drugs.

3) Stim patches in an auto injetor in your hand is the best way to avoid wound penalties.

---

But more important than all of that is doing something you will have fun with

[InfinityzeN]

An initiative booster is anything that boosts your initiative. Reaction Enhancers, Wired Reflexes, Move-by-Wire System, Suprathyroid Gland, Synaptic Boosters are all initiative boosters. Reaction enhancers are compatible with Move-by-Wire and Wired Reflexes, but not with anything else. Niether Suprathyroid Gland or Synaptic Boosters are compatible with anything else.

So we (along with lots of others) completely disagree on what a initiative booster is. His game uses they are compatable, can we drop it and focus on the original question?

Also, armor in 2072 is incredibly light and flexible, all the way up to military grade. And weapons are made out of super-light alloys etc etc. While you might not be able to run around doing backflips and dual-wielding assault cannons, a strength of 3 can easily wield an automatic weapon.

Again an item totally open to the GM. If you want to talk it over, PM or new thread please.

[Stahlseele]

can someone real quick post me the stats of the reaction enhancers?
i thought they only upped your reaction attribute, not your ini passes?
i would personally rule that nothing that gives ini passes is compatible with anything else that gives inipasses, only the highest bonus applies(only drugs would stack directly, and those only up to the usual maximum of 4)
i(and it seems many others) would rule everything that ups reaction attribute to directly stack with each other, to only apply highest bonus at worst.

[WeaverMount]

can someone real quick post me the stats of the reaction enhancers?

It is just reaction. The real question is what the RAW means when it says initiative enhancers: initiative (pass) enhancers, or initiative (score) enhancers.

[BlueMax]

This thread has me enthralled.

Thank you for posting the stuff for sensor sammies. My Sunday group has one and I am sure he has a wish list of sorts now.

Tyro, I had no idea MBW twitched. This may be old version poisoning but I thought MBW was uncannily smooth.

[Orangexplosion]

(Delete this please)

[Orangexplosion]

So we (along with lots of others) completely disagree on what a initiative booster is. His game uses they are compatable, can we drop it and focus on the original question?

"Reaction Enhancers: By replacing part of the spinal column with
superconducting material, a character's reaction time can be increased.
Add the rating of reaction enhancers to a character's Reaction attribute
(this will also affect Initiative). Reaction enhancers are incompatible
with most other Initiative-boosters." - Page 342 SR4A

This explains that Reaction Enhancers are, in fact, initiative boosters. They boost your reaction, and by extension, your initiative.

Again an item totally open to the GM. If you want to talk it over, PM or new thread please.

"Thanks to monofilament ballistic fabrics, spiderweave threads, ceramictitanium
composite plates, and liquid armor packs to cover non-rigid
areas, modern armor is lightweight, flexible, and concealable. The following
armor items offer tremendous damage resistance without slowing
the wearer down or drawing too much attention." - Page 326, SR4A

And that one.

I agree that ultimately everything is up to the GM. But these explanations and rules were placed in the rulebook for a reason, and for clarifications such as these.

EDIT - Sorry for the double post, I got all confused, and apparently you can't delete posts.

[Stahlseele]

does intelligence indirectly raise initiative score or something too?
if so, is encephalon and the +1/+2 int bioware incompatible now too?
it is the same as iff you raise your reaction attribute with karma. it's not direkt initiative, it's indirect, they are and allways have been, compatible with everything else.
kinda like intelligence and quickness made your combat pool go up in SR3 . .

[Orangexplosion]

Tyro, I had no idea MBW twitched. This may be old version poisoning but I thought MBW was uncannily smooth.

According to Arsenal, your MBW gives you small twitches in your muscles. You don't actually twitch visibly, but you have minor spasms in your muscles (Much like in real life when you are suffering from a deficiency in potassium).

[Orangexplosion]

does intelligence indirectly raise initiative score or something too?
if so, is encephalon and the +1/+2 int bioware incompatible now too?
it is the same as iff you raise your reaction attribute with karma. it's not direkt initiative, it's indirect, they are and allways have been, compatible with everything else.
kinda like intelligence and quickness made your combat pool go up in SR3 . .

Encephalon boosts effective Logic for technical skill tests. It doesn't boost your Intuition which in turn would raise your initiative. Off-hand, I know of nothing that boosts your Intuition and thus nothing besides Reaction-ware to count as Initiative Boosters.

[ElFenrir]

My current sam is a mix of close-combat and firearms(more of a weapons specialist, to be honest), but uses this loadout(keep in mind we do not have Availability limits at the start):

Muscle Augmentation 3
Muscle Toner 3
Suprathyroid Gland
Synthacardium 2
Titanium Bone Lacing
Wired Reflexes 2
Smartlink Eye Modification


That's it. It makes him fast, strong, tough, gives him his smartlink. It's a good thing he has money, as he needs the licenses(though he's ex military, and could get the licenses a bit easier and a bit more believably.)

But yes, different loadouts for different sams. A firearms specialist I would just ditch most of the Muscle Aug and pump more Toner in there, lower the Bone Lacing a bit(though titanium's Ballistic bonus is nice, I'd probably run ceramic or aluminum, most likely the former), more eye mods, another level of Synthacardium(extra Athletics/Dodging), etc. This guy more or less is close combat, though I could have fit Orthoskin in there possibly, with a bit of fumbling around with the other ware(though with a modified 6 body, he can wear plenty of armor-his current close in armor is a total of 14/11.)

[InfinityzeN]

There are Nanite and Genetic mods that add dice to any pool using Intuition. Guess since initiative has Intuition in it, they add dice to Initiative rolls. Also I suggested using a Suprathyroid Gland, not Reaction Enhancers.

Please, we have side tracked this thread enough. If you wish to continue on trying to convince me of something you never will, take it to PM or create a new thread.

[BlueMax]

According to Arsenal, your MBW gives you small twitches in your muscles. You don't actually twitch visibly, but you have minor spasms in your muscles (Much like in real life when you are suffering from a deficiency in potassium).

Right, like aerodynamically unstable planes. A series or forces are exerted in all directions and the opposing force is let go for fast reaction.

I just never thought that these motions would be on the visible level.