 Dikote Question, I disagree with my GM |
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 Feb 28 2004, 04:09 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960  |
I want to get my katanas dikoted. He says it will cost me like :nuyen: 10,000 . It says in the rules that it's 1,000 for xxx square cm. The sticking point is this: I say I only need to have the cutting edge of my blades dikoted, thereby costing me a lot less than :nuyen: 10,000. He says I must dikote the whole steel portion of the blade there by costing me through my bung.
Advice? |
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Feb 28 2004, 04:28 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 283 Joined: 30-September 03 From: Kenmore, NY, USA Member No.: 5,663 |
First off, GMs are God, so never ever ever ever get into his face with other players around. It is a major no no.
What else is there well you could have listed the amount of cm you get for 1000 nuyen. So let me actually get my books out. 100 square cm or 100,000 mm. Hmmm that equals 316.23 square mm. a blade of a katana is how large. roughly 1m or 1000mm. I personally believe you need three 'doses.' Anyone want to check me on my math. |
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Feb 28 2004, 04:29 AM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Dikote is described as giving more structural strength and resilience, and being almost frictionless. Nothing there to say it makes the edge of a blade sharper...
Since it makes the blade harder and almost frictionless, and the latter would definitely lower the resistance enormously when cutting something, the whole thing would have to be coated. (otherwise, the uncoated parts still generate friction and slow the cut) Although it definitely looks like he's overcharging you some - that's almost enough for a sword 100cm long and 5cm wide... I think a katana could probably be coated with half of that, maybe less. (Haven't seen one up close in a while, but I don't think most were even 3cm wide at the widest point.) Although - considering the boost it gives, dikote is cheap as dirt. I would probably just let it go. |
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Feb 28 2004, 04:31 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 251 |
Looking at the rules in M&M pg. 111, I would have to agree with your GM.
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 Feb 28 2004, 04:35 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 216 Joined: 27-January 04 Member No.: 6,025 |
The way my group has always played Dikotetm is to have to coat the entire metal portion if for no other reason than we think that is what the game designers intended as a game balance. also as a in-game reason, Dikote is applied using plasma to bond the film to the surface and this will ruin the temper( :) :S ) of the weapon in question.
I know it's not the answer you wanted. Sorry. |
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Feb 28 2004, 04:46 AM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
That says it all. GM's word is final. Sorry. |
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Feb 28 2004, 04:58 AM
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#7
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
As Sidhartha pointed out, the Dikoting process involves putting the weapon into a blast furnace. Exactly how you intend to just put the cutting edge into a blast furnace is beyond me.
But to be fair-- IIRC, a katana blade is about 3cm by 1 m. That makes for 3,000 sq cm per side, or 6,000 sq. cm. At 1000 :nuyen: per 100 sq. cm, that makes for a cost of 60,000 :nuyen: , before Street Index is applied. If I were you, I'd take him up on that offer of 10K-- it's quite a bargain. |
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Feb 28 2004, 05:17 AM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Um... Last time I checked, it was 100 centimeters to a meter. So 6,000 :nuyen: or less, since a katana blade tapers. Although it has a street index of 2, which I forgot about... Hmm, looks like the GM is actually charging pretty close to what it should be. |
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Feb 28 2004, 05:31 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Oh great. First off, I'm not a noob to RPGs so don't talk to me like one. I just wanted some opinions not like I'm going to throw a temper tantrum if I don't get my way. What ever in the world made you think I was "getting in my GMs face"? I also don't have my books on hand at the moment, so no I didn't remember that it had to be put in a blast furnace. I was thinking "coating" so you would just mask off the rest of the blade, all but the cutting edge. I was thinking it was like powder coating or something. Pardon my ignorance. The answer that I WANTED was a good explanation as to why it was not possible, which I got and thank you. |
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Feb 28 2004, 07:52 AM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Alright, you just want the facts of it, so speaking as a materials engineer: You're going to have to stick the whole sword in the dikoting chamber, which is a carefully atmosphere-controlled chamber holding methane and hydrogen. If you just dikote the cutting edge, you'll have to mask the rest of the blade, and the whole area of the blade will end up being coated (just most of it being wasted on a mask). You can't just get part of the blade in - this isn't like a paint coating process. It's a chemical vapor deposition process. With the vacuum pump down and methane/hydrogen refill needed, you can't have most of the sword dangling outside. These are actually plasma nitriding pics, but they should give you an idea of what's involved: http://www.nitriding.co.uk/resources/pics/...manitriding.jpg http://www.jjcastings.com/images/plasma1.jpg A 4-meter screw gear http://www.jjcastings.com/images/plasma3.jpg |
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Feb 28 2004, 09:03 AM
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#11
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Target Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 22-January 04 Member No.: 6,005 |
252 Posted on Feb 28 2004, 04:28 AM
First off, GMs are God, so never ever ever ever get into his face with other players around. It is a major no no. er..... I argue with my gm all the time. keeps him on his toes & makes me remember the rules better. before anyone brings up that i'm partnered to my gm, I have argued with EVERY gm for the same reason. if i want clarification, I am going to get it. If i think you've changed the rules on me, I'm going to let you have bot barrels. If i think you're being grossly unfair to players, believe me, I'll let you know about it. And if i think your challenges are too soft, you'll know about it before the first npc is killed. Yes, the gm is the gm is the gm is god. BUT... they are ALSO human. and whether we like to admit it or not, humans make mistakes. To accept that, and and to accept the query of your players will make you a better gm. I honestly don't give a damn if I am wrong when i question my gm. If i am, I have learned something, and s/he has proven to myself, the group and the gm's self that they know what they are doing. If I am right, then I have saved a big veer off the path, and potentially months of wasted gaming before the gm pulls up and says 'okay guys, you remember how we did x-situation? i fucked up. it no longer counts. fix your sheets.' and we all know how much we love that... That said, and to go back onto topic - what I have read about dikoting infers that the process involves total immersion or 'dipping' of the part to be dikoted. And I remember something about dikoting being jinglish for diamond coating or something. anyway, my char, with her level 2 connected, dikoted her troll-sized katana for about 10K. hope that helps a bit. |
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Feb 28 2004, 01:31 PM
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#12
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
I'll measure my rl katanna.
100cm x 4 cm x .5 cm 100 * 4=400 400 * 2=800 100 *.5=50 800 + 50 = 850 850/100=8.5 round to 9 due to game mechanics 9 * 1000 = 9000 Is this at CharGen or an existing character? If Chargen, it's 1000 diff, big deal. If it's an existing, you're getting a deal. |
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Feb 28 2004, 01:55 PM
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#13
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
So you have two or more katanas? I'm interested to know if that's 10k each or 10k for all (i'm assuming 2) of them. If that's both of them then I'd consider it a deal and take it. If that's each then you could try pointing him towards this thread (or mention the dimensions people are talking about here to him) and see if you can get 1k :nuyen: off each of them. |
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Feb 28 2004, 04:19 PM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Bot barrels? What's that mean? |
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Feb 28 2004, 04:29 PM
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#15
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Either "both barrels" or a drone with a shotgun...dunno which.
-Siege |
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Feb 28 2004, 04:44 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Oh, I get it now. I thought it was some kind of british slang or something.
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Feb 28 2004, 05:22 PM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818 |
:eek: Sounds like a very oppositional game. |
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Feb 28 2004, 05:22 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
It would be 10,000 each. I think I can sway him to go down a thousand. |
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Feb 28 2004, 06:50 PM
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#19
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Oops. :oops: Still, that street index does mean the cost should be about 12K, so it's still quite a deal. As Nikolai pointed out, real measurements put it at about 18K with street index. I'd take the price and be happy, personally. |
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Feb 28 2004, 07:04 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Most katanas are 100cm or less, hilt included... I'm assuming that you'd have to plate the tang as well, (and remove the hilt...) though, so let's call it 90cm. They're usually less than 3cm wide at the widest point, and 4-6mm thick... So let's say 6.5 cm around. That works out to 585 square cm, so it'll be a little under 12,000 :nuyen: factoring in street index. A good deal whichever way you look at it. |
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Feb 28 2004, 07:21 PM
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#21
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
No kidding. Some people like that kind of environment. -Siege |
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Feb 28 2004, 08:36 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
I don't argue with my GM, but he is really inexperienced and he doesn't understand alot of the SR world so we work together to understand the rules and portray the flavor the other players are looking for.
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Feb 28 2004, 10:59 PM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
Well, if you're the player as well, I would save your comments for after the game. This would be less embarassing for your GM when you're right, and in this case, will be less embarassing for you when you're not. From the way I read the rules, it seems like he was being fair with you on this one. Unecessary 'stoppage' of gameplay... that messes with the flavor more than anything else. |
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Feb 29 2004, 04:10 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Gee thanks, maybe I should have entitled this thread: "Please come help me with my interpersonal relationship skills regarding GM/Player conduct in the context of RPG etiquette." Cause that was my hidden intent all along.
Jesus Christ get off it already. :S |
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Feb 29 2004, 04:12 AM
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#25
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
You realize your acting like you need the advice, right?
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