War, HUH! It's out on pdf Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[DMFubar]

Found it on Battleshop and rpgnow in pdf format.

[JM Hardy]

I knew someone here was going to be too fast for me. Anyway, official announcement coming soon. But yeah, it's out! And at the printers!

Jason H.

[Doc Chase]

Oh, shit.

I know what I'm downloading when I get home.

[TeOdio]

Any word on Runner's Tool Kit? I might be the only one interested in a new GM screen but it sounded pretty good.

[InfinityzeN]

Downloaded, reading now...

[JM Hardy]

Any word on Runner's Tool Kit? I might be the only one interested in a new GM screen but it sounded pretty good.

Just waitin' for the green light on that one!

Jason H.

[Pax]

Hey folks, War! is up on Drive Thru RPG and Battlecorps.

[Method]

Merged.

Sorry Pax. DMFubar beat you to it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Out of curiosity, what did they end up doing with the Overlapping Grenade Blast rules? Still additive?

[InfinityzeN]

haven't gotten that far into it yet, will let you know if someone doesn't post before me.

Bogota takes up well over half of the book...

[Method]

Thanks! The wife told me I have to wait til tomorrow to buy a copy... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[InfinityzeN]

Error in the really large dice pools example. It says "or 23 dice (Large Dice Pool)" when it should say 32 dice.

Method, grenades are still additive. The rules have been tweaked a bit though.

[Method]

What I mean is in the playtest draft the grenade blasts were just straight additive, as in 2 grenades means 15P + 15P = 30P. Is it the same in the final?

[InfinityzeN]

No, you calculate damage for each grenade on the target (fracturing in distance, etc). Take the full amount of the highest, plus half of all others.

[Method]

Woot!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) They actually listen to us!

[InfinityzeN]

Of course they do. They have also listened after any PDF came out but before it went to the printers. Don't know if they will have time for this one since it is already at the printers. I actually found a few errors already.

Second error is page 155, Ares Shockbeam description, second paragraph. Says "... brick or orichalcum...", when it should say "brick of orichalcum"

Third error is page 156, RFID Rounds description. Says "Military power is at is core a political...". The "a" should be removed.

Oh, and the 144F availability... priceless!

[JM Hardy]

Woot!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) They actually listen to us!

Only because you make sense.

Jason H.

[Method]

Only because you make sense.

Jason H.

Thanks! I like to think so. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In all seriousness though, its good to know that our feedback is taken into account.

[InfinityzeN]

Cluster of errors on page 161. The Microtronica Azteca Spellslinger has no chart entry. At the end of the Spellslinger's discription, it starts talking about commlinks with no new item marker (all other points in the gear section, including the individual commlinks, are bolded and use colons).

Edit: Never mind on the chart entry of the Spellslinger, found it next page. Weird that it's description is first, but its chart entry is right before software.

Emergency Field Dressing has a description (page 163), but I have not been able to find a chart entry for it. I quadruple checked after what I found with Spellslinger, and could not find it anywhere.

Hedgehog Nanites have a discription (page 164), but no entry on the chart with all the nanites.

[InfinityzeN]

Jason,

Do you guys have time to give this thing another proof read and fix errors? I just lightly skimmed the fluff so I can't give you any input there, but I'm finding one or more errors for every page in the crunch I'm reading.

[BookWyrm]

Gonna wait for the hardcopy release for WAR. Also, the Catalyst site says Spells & Chrome will be available on Dec. 22nd. Is that PDF or hardcopy? So far, I've wishlisted SRM 3-08, 09, 11, 12 & This Old Drone PDF's on DriveThru. After a recent ordering snafu with Borders, I'm going to order Spells & Chrome through my local Barnes & Noble. I may have to wait until ICON (April 15th-17 2011) for most of the other upcoming books.

[Yerameyahu]

Third error is page 156, RFID Rounds description. Says "Military power is at is core a political...". The "a" should be removed.

This is a very odd error report.

My guess is that it's *meant* to be, 'Military power is at *its* core *a* political…', in which case the error report is erroneous.

Another possibility is, 'Military power is at [] core *a* political…', and the error report is still wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It is further possible that it's, 'Military power is at [] core [] political…', and, yep, error report is still wrong, in a different detail.

[JM Hardy]

Jason,

Do you guys have time to give this thing another proof read and fix errors? I just lightly skimmed the fluff so I can't give you any input there, but I'm finding one or more errors for every page in the crunch I'm reading.

I'll be checking tomorrow for last-minute correction possibilities.

Jason H.

[hobgoblin]

any tanks in there? oh, and did they clear up the launch weapon capacity issue?

[Sengir]

I'll be checking tomorrow for last-minute correction possibilities.

Jason H.

Well, if not you can always put out an errata...sometime...

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Well, if not you can always put out an errata...sometime...

You didn't get the memo, huh?

[Sengir]

You didn't get the memo, huh?

I'm only receiving input sequencially, so any memos will only come through after the announcment of new novels (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)


PS: So what do I get for 144F? Shark biodrones with head-mounted Ares MP Lasers?

[Hagga]

Is it just me, or does the Shadowtalk from some of the characters not really fit? At all?

[Saint Sithney]

So, uh... what is it good for?

The book that is.

#% Bogata
#% Rules clarifications
#% Gear
#% Art
?

[InfinityzeN]

Seriously man, did you even get the PDF and look at it? The full line is "Military power is at its core a political, and it can be important to know who is throwing around that power." The report is not in error since as writen it is wrong. Taking the "a" out fixes the problem, though changing the word to one of several also does. I was just pointing out that there is an error there. Next time get the PDF and look before you make a comment about an error report.

This is a very odd error report.

My guess is that it's *meant* to be, 'Military power is at *its* core *a* political…', in which case the error report is erroneous.

Another possibility is, 'Military power is at [] core *a* political…', and the error report is still wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It is further possible that it's, 'Military power is at [] core [] political…', and, yep, error report is still wrong, in a different detail.

[Mesh]

The report is not in error since as writen it is wrong.

LOL, That's interesting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mesh

[Saint Sithney]

Oh InfinityzeN, the humor comes from the fact that you're*original error report had an error in it.

*[see what I did there?]

[Doc Chase]

Seriously man, did you even get the PDF and look at it? The full line is "Military power is at its core a political, and it can be important to know who is throwing around that power." The report is not in error since as writen it is wrong. Taking the "a" out fixes the problem, though changing the word to one of several also does. I was just pointing out that there is an error there. Next time get the PDF and look before you make a comment about an error report.

If that's the line, then it should be 'apolitical'.

[MJBurrage]

Only had a chance to fast-skim the book, but I did notice one thing.

• The nuyen costs in tables should be right-aligned, not left-aligned.


P.S. A question for Mr. Hardy. Have you considered releasing the PDFs a month before the book goes to the printer. I think it would be good for everyone to have lots of eyes on the books before they are set to paper.

[sabs]

that would potentially hurt Book sales though

[Aaron]

If that's the line, then it should be 'apolitical'.

I'm guessing that the original intent was to say that military power is at its core a political one. I'm not certain off the top of my head, but if it's important I can check the draft when I get home.

[sabs]

it's a rewording of the old saying.

War is the natural extension of Diplomacy.

[Yerameyahu]

Pretty sure I gave that as option number 3, InfinityzeN, except for the *other* typo that was still there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Software that can make two arrows fired from bows hit at the same time, thus having them add their damage into one single hit.
Sound like the return of archery regiments.

And of course, more gear creep – there are now commlink and programs rated up to 10. So much for the Device Rating Table.

[DMFubar]

I knew someone here was going to be too fast for me. Anyway, official announcement coming soon. But yeah, it's out! And at the printers!

Jason H.

Sorry Jason, I just stumbled across it while getting my gaming fix.

I printed a copy last night and so far I have enjoyed reading it. I am half-way through the history of the Bogota conflict section which has been interesting, but the formatting is a bit of a strain to the eyes for me. Lots of double columns with LONG paragraphs and with few breaks (usually pages are broken up with graphics, tables, side bars, etc.). Not really a complaint, just means I take breaks from reading occassionally. There are some other minor errors I have seen, but nothing too severe so far (like I said, haven't read too far yet).

I did skip ahead to glance at the gear (couldn't help it) and to answer a previous question, yes, there are tanks, new drones, aircraft (and aircraft carriers), etc. Even new guns, gun mods, and deadly toys. I love the Flick Bayonet (wraps around the barrel of the rifle and upon command becomes a rigid blade). Am I right in assuming the ballistic mask would look like today's paintball masks (but much more resilient of course)?

Thanks for the hard work as always!

[Matsci]

I'm only receiving input sequencially, so any memos will only come through after the announcment of new novels (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)


PS: So what do I get for 144F? Shark biodrones with head-mounted Ares MP Lasers?

that and 1,200,000,000¥ will get you an Aesir Satellite Weapon system, capable of mounting four Thor missiles,  fifteen Freya missiles, and twenty-four Loki canisters.

Yes, the book has rules for buying and using Thor shots

[Doc Chase]

I'm guessing that the original intent was to say that military power is at its core a political one. I'm not certain off the top of my head, but if it's important I can check the draft when I get home.

I disagree, given the context we have been provided. It makes more sense to say 'apolitical', thereby showing the error is only one keystroke, rather than 'political' and show the error was substantially more.

I also believe military power is apolitical, as it will(or should) focus on the defense of the nation-state and its citizens from external threats, not on the administration of same.

[CanRay]

So, the problems with the text and such... Are we talking "Fallout 3/New Vegas" buggy (Problems, but still fun), or "Windows ME on Release" Buggy (OH DEAR $DIETY, what were you THINKING releasing that?)?

[Doc Chase]

So, the problems with the text and such... Are we talking "Fallout 3/New Vegas" buggy (Problems, but still fun), or "Windows ME on Release" Buggy (OH DEAR $DIETY, what were you THINKING releasing that?)?

The former, I figure.

[Sengir]

And of course, more gear creep – there are now commlink and programs rated up to 10. So much for the Device Rating Table.

Given that another gear book is around the corner (because having all military gear in one book takes away all the searching fun), anyone want to bet on the friction coefficient of the slippery slope? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But 1.2 Billion for an orbital weapon platform to hold the world hostage with sounds fair...and it's even got cool norse names (and not some pseudo-German gibberish) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Prime Mover]

Bah too close to Christmas and budget belt is cinched tight, this one was on my wish list for gear section alone and it sounds promising. (gear creep and all)

[CanRay]

Don't forget that the previous gear books (and stat restrictions) have been, mostly, for civilian items. (Police and Security Forces included with Civilian.). With some obsolete MilSpec to round things out.

These puppies will be SOTA, Bleeding Edge, "We're just now receiving reports that Ares has pulled a new toy onto the field in this Desert War battle!" gear!

[Prime Mover]

In a game were the players are routinely interacting with "cutting edge" people and discoveries it's nice to have a reference. Even if I wouldn't allow a Thor launcher purchase.

So what are the 3 coolest things that stand out so far. ( Just picked number three out of a hat.)

[imperialus]

Sweet Christ... Thor is finally statted up. Awesome! I totally need to find an excuse to use one of those.

The thing is a lot of the 'power creep' can be done away with pretty easy... I mean an availability of 144F for the Aesir? That just screams plot device.

Even a rating 7 hacking program has an avail of 28 and costs 49,000 nuyen... Multiply that by 4 hacking programs and you're looking at just under 200,000 for your program suite alone at a base price. The MCT tactical to run it on has an avail of 32 and costs 18,500... At the end of the day the rating 7+ programs are a hacker equivalent of deltaware. No PC is going to get their hands on these unless the GM expressly allows it.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Don't forget that the previous gear books (and stat restrictions) have been, mostly, for civilian items.

No. They already have lots of military items included, from weapons to drones and War! is even referencing to those.

The main book rates Devices 1-6, including military gear and vehicles on the upper end, putting Response of 7 as some R&D stuff. In Arsenal, the Commlinks integrated into Military armor are rated 4-6. Unwired lists Programs of 7 as absolutely restricted in usage.
War lists the Battle Buddy Basic Commlink as the standard issue for a grunt, with rating 5 – so far, so well. Then it goes batshit crazy, jumps directly to 7 for the Battle Buddy and goes up to Response 9, with the maximum upgrade available to 10… software, too.

Same for the new SoftWeave Armor "upgrade" – which basically let's a character add his Strengh in to determine Encumbrance, for a 10% upgrade in price, a slight increase in availability and no change in legality.

[CanRay]

Right right... Sorry. I forgot the main two rules:

1: Never post before you're awake.
2: Better to be thought an idiot than to post on DumpShock and remove all doubt.

[imperialus]

One other thing that I might point out is that War's power creep is largely focused on the mundane... It gives the non awakened PC's a chance to catch up to the spell slingers once they start skimming the upper edge of the power curve. Having played a few high karma games I think this fills an extremely important niche.

[Inncubi]

Hmmm interesting to see they finally started taking alook at Bogotá. I'm form here, and during the early 2000 late 90's some friends of mine published in the internet an unofficial reference guide to Colombia's shadows. Seeing the resurgence now its interestng. I'd like to see how they portray the city in the book.

As a little background intel, what used to be the world's most dangerous neighborhood was only two... yes /two/ blocks away form the presidential home (think the White House: el Palacio de Nariño). It was called "El Cartucho". They were the Barrens on steriods as not even the military forces were willing to go in there.

Also in Soacha, one of the most dangerous places nowadays, they managed to have a higher violent death rate than Sarajevo when it was a full battle zone.

That is prime material for Shadowrun. That, and the guerrilas, paramilitaries and drug cartels vying for political power and the drug trade money.

Throw in Amazonia's and Aztlan's mojo, Jaguar guards and awakened dragons and you have one hell of a place.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

One other thing that I might point out is that War's power creep is largely focused on the mundane... It gives the non awakened PC's a chance to catch up to the spell slingers once they start skimming the upper edge of the power curve. Having played a few high karma games I think this fills an extremely important niche.

Yeah, rrright – read the Mind over Matter adept power.

And why having an item made from specifically more processed components to increase it's OR needs capacity is beyond me.

[hobgoblin]

Makes one wonder why not remove the "caps" and just let the money talk on the mundane gear. Sure, once it passes some marker or other the price would square or cube for each point increase. But the theoretical possibility to keep up would be there.

The other option is sota style rules, having the rating drop unless maintained.

[imperialus]

Yeah, rrright – read the Mind over Matter adept power.

Oh crap! Right you are... Umm... wow. That'll be entering the dustbin of "crap not allowed in Imp's game". I might allow it as a metamagic power... Maybe.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

I might allow it as a metamagic power...

That would be worse, actually.

Did anyone notice that the SoftWeave upgrade for 10% of the armor cost completely obsoletes the Mobility Upgrade from Arsenal? Yeah, right, you get some dice for Running… great. As for "High Power Ammo"… No, just No. This is a really sad day, with the inside joke about munchkins and gun nuts becoming RAW.

[Stormdrake]

Got it this morning and went over it. For the most part I am pretty happy but do have a question on this:

Redundant Process Manufacturing: uses the same manufacturing or refurbishing technique as the vehicle upgrade of the same name, in which the armor is subject to more processing than necessary. As a result, the armor’s Object Threshold is increased by the rating of the modification.

I may have missed something in the other books but what good does this do? If a mage is using a inderect combat spell (say Flame strike) does the mage need to overcome the OT of the targets armor to affect him?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

No, this is for Direct Combat Spells and the like.

[Dahrken]

It won't help against indirect spells, as those don't target the armor but rather the environment around it.

But it will help it against spells like Shatter, Analayze Device or Fashion (making an armored pant one-legged may sound dumb, but will drastically hamper the target's mobility) that directly interact with the item - mostly Direct Combat and Manipulation spells.

[imperialus]

As for "High Power Ammo"… No, just No. This is a really sad day, with the inside joke about munchkins and gun nuts becoming RAW.

Again though... Availability of 20F for the ammo, a threshold 20 weapon mod that doubles the cost of the weapon and takes up two slots, the inability to use "regular" ammo including explosive or flechette and finally a -2 dice pool modifier due to recoil seems to balance it out. Again this isn't something that a starting PC is going to have. Just judging from the availability and my personal experience He'll be getting his hands on a regular supply of HP rounds at around the same time the mage starts slinging F7 or 8 fireballs as a matter of course.

By that point your PC's are probably taking on Red Samurai units, Cyberzombies, and penetrating into MCT Zero-Zero zones for their paycheques anyhow. The ante's been upped.

I'm more scared of the AP Flechette rounds personally.

[Stormdrake]

How does this help a grunt wearing the armor against direct spells? Sorry, I may be missing something but direct spells bypass armor or are you saying that it will help agaisnt spells that target the armor and not the wearer?

[Dahrken]

Option 2 I think : it helps the armor against spells that target it, but not if they target the wearer.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The ante's been upped.

It was upped before – is not like this mockery called HPA really needed to be.

I'm more scared of the AP Flechette rounds personally.

Those are worse indeed. Added fun about all those "flechette only" weapons.

[Stormdrake]

While there is some power increase I can accept it in military hardware and abilities. This simply plays to the idea that corporations and nations can always pull out bigger guns than the runners can ever hope for.

I really do like the Redundant Process Manufacturing modification as it makes drones and vehicles a heck of a lot harder for mages to kill.

As Atzlan and Amazonia are the ones throwing down I was surprised at the lack of magical insanity included in the game masters section. Was fully expecting some insane blood magic rituals.

[Mäx]

I really do like the Redundant Process Manufacturing modification as it makes drones and vehicles a heck of a lot harder for mages to kill.

Only if your stupid enough to try to wreck vehicles with direct combat spells, witch isn't exactly a good plan even with out that mod.

[bluedragon7]

Reading it feels strange, in the rules section the authors showed, they do not know the existing rules, sometimes even reinventing the wheel but just calling it different.
And other parts as well do not look like whoever designed it knew what he was doing.

The only thing i found so far i would consider good is the mechanics for large pool sizes, nice idea!

[Rotbart van Dain...]

I really do like the Redundant Process Manufacturing modification as it makes drones and vehicles a heck of a lot harder for mages to kill.

Did you see the cost? Basically, you can have an additional drone/vehicle out there for each level. Not worth it.

[Sengir]

Oh crap! Right you are... Umm... wow. That'll be entering the dustbin of "crap not allowed in Imp's game". I might allow it as a metamagic power... Maybe.

May I ask what prompts this ammount of "holy shit"?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Let's just say this Adept Power gives the term "dump stat" a whole new meaning.

BTW: The Dragon Fly "mine" is great… for poor people living in the area – gather the mines without wearing metal and sell the six drones inside.

[Method]

I find it humorous that people are worried about "power creep" in a source book about military operations in the SR world. That kinda is the whole point.

Or perhaps we have forgotten all the bitching there was when Arsenal came out and people were crying "Wherez teh tanks?! I needz stats for tanks!!"

[Sengir]

Hmmm, what's the most ridiculous thing I can think of involving dumb stats...replace all physical stats with your magic rating?

[Stormdrake]

Did you see the cost? Basically, you can have an additional drone/vehicle out there for each level. Not worth it.

Yes you could have an additional drone in the field but the modification makes it nearly impossible for a mage to use illusion or manipulation spells on the drone. In a heavy magic conflict that addition makes up for not having that additional drone. After all if you can't find the mage or the troops he is covering what good is an extra drone?

A more simple application would be to use it on camera's or other sensors which would accomplish the same thing at a much lower price.

[Nath]

As a little background intel, what used to be the world's most dangerous neighborhood was only two... yes /two/ blocks away form the presidential home (think the White House: el Palacio de Nariño). It was called "El Cartucho".

Massachusetts Avenue in Washington DC is not the safest track in the US either (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
(been only once to Washington, in 1996, and the room was next to George Washington U. Hospital...)

[Rotbart van Dain...]

I find it humorous that people are worried about "power creep" in a source book about military operations in the SR world. That kinda is the whole point.

No, it's not.

Or perhaps we have forgotten all the bitching there was when Arsenal came out and people were crying "Wherez teh tanks?! I needz stats for tanks!!"

Tanks, sure. Big guns? Fine. Special purpose equipment and vehicles? Please.

Tossing aside the general rating scale, that included military stuff? Not so much. More powerful ammo? Please, no. Software that's either unnecessary or simply crazy? Archery-synchronizer, I'm looking at you.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Yes you could have an additional drone in the field but the modification makes it nearly impossible for a mage to use illusion or manipulation spells on the drone.

No, it doesn't for illusions, since Sensors have a seperate OR and there is no such mod for them.

A more simple application would be to use it on camera's or other sensors which would accomplish the same thing at a much lower price.

Just that is not possible.

[Makki]

whoever wrote up the Adrenaline Regulator never played SR before. it makes some negative qualities free points and fluff-only. additionally some mages with metor spirits will never again care about the negative effect...

[bluedragon7]

whoever wrote ... never played SR before.

A lot of time that were just my thoughts while reading WAR! and i am far from finished with it

[Summerstorm]

Well, just bought it and skimmed through it (mostly rules and lists)...

Hm, expected a bit more cyberware. But overall seems ok.

Stacking pools for teams with able commanders=approved.
More drones and vehicles and therefore better information about the costs on that level=approved.
Prices and informations about rating 6-10 (usual) comlinks and programs: needed, good.

Also a sustained combat spell and a damaging, moving manipulation spell... good good, they are back.

and FINALY we got a pricetag on a geostatic weapons platform loaded with gravity bombs *g*.
1.2 billion... bah... PEANUTS.

[hobgoblin]

I find it humorous that people are worried about "power creep" in a source book about military operations in the SR world. That kinda is the whole point.

Or perhaps we have forgotten all the bitching there was when Arsenal came out and people were crying "Wherez teh tanks?! I needz stats for tanks!!"

Different people at different times. Thing is, positives are never really commented online (and it would in the end just look like a long series of "high five"). Essentially, online comments are the reverse of "if you have nothing positive to say, do not say anything at all".

[Makki]

for a positive comment: I love the Leadership rules. (but, why is there a skill in the corebook without any rules for it?)

[Stahlseele]

for a positive comment: I love the Leadership rules. (but, why is there a skill in the corebook without any rules for it?)

"Warum liegt hier überhaupt Stroh rum?"

[Sengir]

"Warum liegt hier überhaupt Stroh rum?"

Because you're in a dragon lair...and no, he's not going to do it.

[Stahlseele]

*snickers* ^^

[InfinityzeN]

Sa'all good bro. I wasn't trying to give a fix to every problem, just show them the location of the ones I found so they could fix them. I'm a little cranky in the morning before I have my coffee.

Pretty sure I gave that as option number 3, InfinityzeN, except for the *other* typo that was still there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Aaron]

I disagree, given the context we have been provided. It makes more sense to say 'apolitical', thereby showing the error is only one keystroke, rather than 'political' and show the error was substantially more.

I also believe military power is apolitical, as it will(or should) focus on the defense of the nation-state and its citizens from external threats, not on the administration of same.

I disagree, both in the author's intent and the nature of military power.

We can discuss the latter (I'll kick it off by pointing out that the world "political" or one of its forms appears in 103 places in WAR), but as to the former, I can say for certain that the error in the sentence on p. 156 is my fault. I sometimes think faster than I type.

[Stahlseele]

"WAR Impressum"
Copyright© 2011  e Topps Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Ok now what does this mean?
as long as it's still 2010, they don't own copyright on their own book?
and if this is indeed the case, WHO DOES?
or is it free to copy? . .
Highly improbable, i know . .
Also, is something like that allowed to be fixed by errata, if this is more or less something legalese?

[Mongoose]

and FINALY we got a pricetag on a geostatic weapons platform loaded with gravity bombs *g*.
1.2 billion... bah... PEANUTS.

Given the amount of space industry / habitats Shadowrun has, lifting materials into space has got to be and order or two magnitude cheaper in 207x than now. Unless there's something really fancy in that weapons platform, the price makes sense, given cheap launch rates (equivalent to $1000 per kilo, just 1/10 current rate).

[Bull]

Ok now what does this mean?
as long as it's still 2010, they don't own copyright on their own book?
and if this is indeed the case, WHO DOES?
or is it free to copy? . .
Highly improbable, i know . .
Also, is something like that allowed to be fixed by errata, if this is more or less something legalese?

Keep in mind that the PDF is, AFAIK, the same document that is sent to the printers to have turned into print books. And even if CGL hits the "send" button today, chances are slim to none that the book will be on gaming shelves before the first of the year.

As such, the book will be officially released in 2011. And the copyright is valid, so far as I know.

(The PDF releases themselves are a whole other situation, but... I will point out that comics have been doing similar things for decades. Marvel and DC both have the "release" month and year in their books (In the legalese inside, and they used to print the month on the cover as well). However, for some reason, these were inevitably like 3-4 months "ahead". So a book I would buy in December, might actually say "March, 2011" inside. According to Wikipedia this is a standard practice for almost all Periodical publications in the US, Canada, and the UK. The reason was so that the release could "sit" on the shelf for a couple of months and still appear "fresh". It's a marketing thing, mostly, but... *shrug*

I'm not entirely certain how this all relates together, to be honest. Copyright law is some of the most confusing and fucked up stuff out there. The mess is compounded by the fact that copyright law differs from country to country, sometimes wildly.

<shrug> Considering it's 2 weeks till 2011, I'm not certain it's an issue regardless.

Bull

[Stahlseele]

*shrugs*
did not know that.
has that happened before with shadowrun books? O.o
furthermore, if it IS, indeed, a mistake . .
it gets kinda silly, if you start needing Errata for your Impressum <.<

[Bull]

Not sure. I don't think FanPro or CGL ever released anything on PDF this close to the end of the year before, so not sure that this issue would have come up.

But like I said, I assume it's not an error, since this is what's going in the print book. And as I noted, the Print Book won't be on shelves till 2011, which makes the copyright date correct for that.

[hobgoblin]

Given the amount of space industry / habitats Shadowrun has, lifting materials into space has got to be and order or two magnitude cheaper in 207x than now. Unless there's something really fancy in that weapons platform, the price makes sense, given cheap launch rates (equivalent to $1000 per kilo, just 1/10 current rate).

The Kilimanjaro railgun probably helps...

[Adam]

Keep in mind that the PDF is, AFAIK, the same document that is sent to the printers to have turned into print books.

It's not. Same content, very different PDF files.

[Adam]

*shrugs*
did not know that.
has that happened before with shadowrun books? O.o
furthermore, if it IS, indeed, a mistake . .
it gets kinda silly, if you start needing Errata for your Impressum <.<

It's not a mistake; it's 100% normal for a title to be produced in one year and the copyright date be for the next year, if it's being released in the next year.

There are no legal ramifications for this.

[Prime Mover]

Personal nitpick, art for new weapons/vehicles/gear quantity and quality? (I know were long past full page days but Its a HUGE help to have some representation.)

[Stahlseele]

It's not a mistake; it's 100% normal for a title to be produced in one year and the copyright date be for the next year, if it's being released in the next year.

There are no legal ramifications for this.

People win suits because their coffee did not say HOT on the side.
A woman got legal ownership of the sun.

[Megu]

OK, one thing I've been waiting on... is there much information on war zones other than Bogota? Specifically SE Asia?

[Adam]

People win suits because their coffee did not say HOT on the side.
A woman got legal ownership of the sun.

Gosh you've convinced me.

[Stahlseele]

Not saying anyone would go to the trouble for a shadowrun book but . .
Stranger things HAVE happened . .

[hobgoblin]

like a shooting war over a soccer match?

[Bull]

It's not. Same content, very different PDF files.

Meh. That's what I meant. Reading back on it, I realize I misworded it. Fun! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm just glad i don;t have to deal with any of that stuff. I have enough trouble trying to make sure SR4 instead of SR4A page references get fixed and that the right people get listed in the credits. Plus, none of the docs I'm working on are going to print. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(Seriously, I have a boiler plate set of text in an "Adventure Template", and I swear I've corrected the same page reference 4 or 5 times now. And yet, it keeps popping back up. Very annoying)

Bull