 Mages and Shamans and Final Fantasy, hmm hard to explain |
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 Apr 24 2004, 03:17 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027  |
In peoples experience: would you find final fantasies magic to be hermetic or shamanic
and why do you say one way or the other |
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Apr 24 2004, 03:24 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 334 Joined: 17-November 03 From: Texas Member No.: 5,828 |
It might help to specify which final fantasy you mean, Mana. There are 12, after all :)
:cyber: US FFIII is teh bomb. And in my opinion, most FF's treat magic from the hermetic perspective. |
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Apr 24 2004, 03:26 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 753 Joined: 31-October 03 Member No.: 5,780 |
LOL.
I believe most of the magic is hermetic in style, but there are spots where it might be considered more as shamanic. the mages I'd call hermetic, (the ones that like BOOM! spells, or classical white mage/healer). Anything else I believe usually gives the appearance of a more shamanistic style. but I agree, it helps to pick out a specific Final Fantasy for comparison |
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Apr 24 2004, 03:26 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
well i was talking about 10 actually and X-2 (even though i havent played X-2)
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Apr 24 2004, 03:41 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 753 Joined: 31-October 03 Member No.: 5,780 |
If you're talking FFX, definitely a mix of both!
although game-setup speaking, it's pretyt much hermetic if it's spell stuff from a class, any of the more unique things might be a bit more shamanistic. (dress spheres, for example, could be considered shaman-based, even though they give you classes with hermetic spell casting.) |
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Apr 24 2004, 03:52 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
what would summoners be then
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Apr 24 2004, 04:07 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 260 Joined: 20-March 04 From: That really good state. Yeah, you know the one... Member No.: 6,177 |
I'm not too sure about the other 11, but I would say that the magic users in number six were shamans. They did get all of their magic and a good deal of other bonuses from espers. Only two? characters could learn any on their own.
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Apr 24 2004, 04:35 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 753 Joined: 31-October 03 Member No.: 5,780 |
I would call summoners shamans, since the eidolons were actual 'spirits' and SR spirit went under a similar (if not the same) concept.
as to FF6, I guess it's more shamanistic, but being it was chalkful of magic, it was 'traditional'. quasar!!!! hehe |
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Apr 24 2004, 05:03 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
yeah i got thinking about this stuff cause i wanted to build a Final Fantasy Style Magical type character using shadowrun. i dont know why i just felt like trying it out.
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Apr 24 2004, 06:11 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 14-March 04 From: Cal Poly: SLO Member No.: 6,155 |
And what would the drain be on Ultima then? ;) :D
I think FF type spells could work with some tinkering, but the MP system vs the drain system is kind of hard to reconcile if you ask me. A shadowrun mage could in theory cast spells all day, or go out with the first one. A FF mage knows that his spell will always succeed, and casting the next will be exactly the same. Course, it's not as bad as say, d&d, where you have to memorize your spells for the day (ick). I do like the idea though. It'll just be difficult. I have a NPC in my campaigns who's a planewalker. He uses magic rules from shadowrun, Krynn (d&d), and a home-made system similar to FF; depending on the situation and his mood. Also nice that people familiar with one don't know how to resist the other system. |
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Apr 24 2004, 09:19 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 475 Joined: 17-June 02 From: Concord University, Athens, WV Member No.: 2,880 |
Well...
Ultima is an extended-area Powerball or Nova, cast at D and with a high enough force that you can usually expect it to not be staged down. And since I like elemental manips, that'd put it at about ((Force / 2)+1)(DL+3). Force 12 is about the highest a spell is going to reasonably get, so Ultima would probably have a drain somewhere around 13D. A lot, but assuming a Magic of 12 (to cast without physical), you'd be dealing 12D to everything in a 240-meter sphere. |
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Apr 24 2004, 03:18 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
Yes...of course, you'd be the type of person defending D&D in the dungeon crawl thread...yeah...yeah. So what's next? A human magician's way physad that SURGEd to have the Prehensile Tail and Unusual Hair flaws, has Distinctive Style because he always wears orange, and overuses Powerball and Levitate? And also uses the Enlarge spell on his staff a whole bunch? ... |
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Apr 24 2004, 06:54 PM
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#13
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Ooh ooh ooh, or why don't we just all play uber-chill silent break-and-enter types with Blandness and silenced pistols?
~J |
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Apr 24 2004, 08:59 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955 |
Alternatively, troubled childhood dark loner elven adepts.
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Apr 25 2004, 01:32 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 973 Joined: 3-October 03 Member No.: 5,677 |
Or amnesiac over-professional street sams with hidden headware mem, cortex bombs, and Dark Secret who were all on courier runs when they got waylaid. :D
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Apr 25 2004, 03:48 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
^Only if they turn out to be dog shamans immune to Essence loss ;).
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Apr 25 2004, 04:34 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 17-December 03 Member No.: 5,909 |
Darn it!!!!! How did you guess my next character. and it isnt a powerball its either laser or nova. |
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Apr 25 2004, 05:44 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 3-April 03 Member No.: 4,370 |
ok i bite, who the hell you guys talking about?
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Apr 25 2004, 06:09 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
Google, dude!
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Apr 25 2004, 08:12 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 973 Joined: 3-October 03 Member No.: 5,677 |
:rotfl: *highfive* :grinbig: |
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Apr 25 2004, 06:40 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
However, I feel I must let it be known that I really do like that game, despite it's butchering of basic SR concepts ;).
Guns, guns, guns! Yar tar tee hee ho ta tar! |
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Apr 25 2004, 09:38 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 17-December 03 Member No.: 5,909 |
Well my friend we are talking about Goku. |
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Apr 25 2004, 09:41 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
Well, Goku and the Shadowrun SNES game. Two different things are happening here :).
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Apr 26 2004, 12:47 AM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818 |
I think I'll leave before anyone notices me.
But I have to say, Mana Child, your topic tears into my very soul and makes Baby Jesus cry. |
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Apr 26 2004, 12:50 AM
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#25
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Good. His tears water my black soul.
~J |
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Apr 28 2004, 04:37 AM
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#26
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
err i wasent talking of converting anything from final fantasy to shadowrun actually, i was talking about characters who were of similar how could you put it.... character make up.
nether mind. |
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Apr 28 2004, 04:39 AM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
Oh, you mean concept? Funny that someone who defends D&D and likes FF would have trouble expressing that, but no trouble with numbers...yes...
The simple fact is that FF magic presents a very wide range of magical concepts. Hey, materia could be a weirdo talisman geas. Heh. |
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Apr 28 2004, 04:42 AM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
i may be taking you the wrong way but from where i'm sitting i feel as if your insulting me. please dont say you are and if you are explain why as i may have been taken alittle wrong in the thread. As for dnd i have a soft spot for it cuase it was my first rpg.
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Apr 28 2004, 04:44 AM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
i wasent even talking of using any FF spells. I mean more in concept than anything else. It was gonna use normal SR spells rules and everything.......
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Apr 28 2004, 04:46 AM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
It was my first RPG too, but I've gotten past that and realized it's little more than a Table Top Fantasy Video Game Simulation. And a crappy one at that.
The main problem I have is that it seems that you're stuck in a DnD mindset, and you also type like you're on a Pokemon or Spongebob Squarepants board. So yes, I'm insulting you. Isn't it fun? But my ultimate point is that you don't need to have a special class or something for an FF mage. Think outside the box, dude. |
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Apr 28 2004, 04:51 AM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
could you please explain to me how that is ? and what i have suddenly done to you. |
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Apr 28 2004, 04:58 AM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
i didnt say i wanted a class either, its hard to explain, but i was actually trying to do it through concept and the way i chose my skills rather than anything else. |
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Apr 28 2004, 05:08 AM
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#33
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
:please: Wonderful display of intelligence. Makes me think so highly of your opinions. I salute your rapier wit. Seriously. Shut the fuck up. ~J |
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Apr 28 2004, 07:18 AM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955 |
Thank you.
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Apr 28 2004, 07:19 PM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 140 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 164 |
I second Diesel. I'm just disappointed that you beat me to the punch. |
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Apr 28 2004, 09:15 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
Like I said to Diesel, who chose to chase me to my PM box like a kindergartener running to mommy, "I'd rather be rude than evasive."
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Apr 28 2004, 09:49 PM
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#37
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191 |
Then how about you do it on another website? This is the 3rd or 4th thread I've seen where you've become belligerent and insulting with no cause. I feel semi-secure in speaking for everyone when I say cork it or take it somewhere else. Mana Child asked a simple question, for God's sake.
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Apr 28 2004, 10:05 PM
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#38
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818 |
Heck, I don't think it's really a good idea, but you don't see me going of on a gigantic rant. I don't know what kind of a forum you came from, Kakkaruan, but your abuse is not appreciated on this board. |
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Apr 28 2004, 11:08 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
it seems all involved actually misunderstood my intention of the question now and now that it comes down to it what i was trying to do was make a character in the guise rather than anything else. I wasnt wanting to convert or change any rules or anything.
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Apr 28 2004, 11:14 PM
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#40
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
That's because you're a jackass who thrives on the token anonymity of the internet. |
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Apr 28 2004, 11:17 PM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
Also if you think that D&D is nothing more than a Table Top Fantasy Video Game Simulation you have no idea what your damn well talking about. Oh yes a game been around since the 70's is really a hard core video game poser *cough* You make me laugh. D&D rocks |
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Apr 29 2004, 02:06 AM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 24-January 04 Member No.: 6,013 |
Keep up that kinda BS and your gonna get banned from these boards soon enough. None of us are in the mood for your attitude, so kindly stuff it before you get locked in the Shadow Cell. |
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Apr 29 2004, 02:49 AM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
Nope, I act like this in the real world, too. Of course, people there are generally more used to the real world, where you do get bitched at for acting like a moron. <shrug> As for DnD, why yes, 3e DID come out in the 70s. If by 70s you mean early 00s. Or was it 99? I honestly can't recall because I lost interest after seeing that they managed to make most of the rules suck harder. Levels, classes, HPs--all the elements of simplicity and non-reality that make videogames playable. Same thing with DnD. People seem to forget that it was originally conceived as a tactical expansion for a wargame, rather than a ROLE PLAYING game. People also seem to forget to notice that I'm not just flaming, I made a pretty good point in my post, too. Accentuate the positive, people. It's not like I'm making you read my posts. By the way, I've noticed that plenty of people, like Clockwork Lime, flame a whole hell of a lot more than I do, they just do it with little yellow icons and such...slightly more subtle. I'm just being direct. Edit: Oh yes, I've--let me check--yes, I've been around on these forums for longer than any of you /youngsters/. So...I guess you could say the "forum I came from" is here. |
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Apr 29 2004, 02:55 AM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 24-January 04 Member No.: 6,013 |
Twit. D&D 1st Eidtion was late 60's early 70's. The game is over 25 years old and predated RPG video games by a few years easy. |
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Apr 29 2004, 03:09 AM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
What the fuck are you talking about? I /OWN/ the original DnD different-color-rulebooks-and-whatnot set. Okay? Jesus tapdancing Christ.
What I mean when I relate DnD to videogames is that they both have the same depth of roleplaying (depending on your group, but I've played in enough DnD groups to know that that's the norm), and the same relationship with reality (IE, neither model the real world all that well...and I'm not talking about magic and monsters, I'm talking about real-world rules and guidelines...like the one that says it's not logical to sit and slash at some beast for 20 minutes until one of you dies). |
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Apr 29 2004, 03:11 AM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
You have to be the most ignorant, unknowlagable, annoying ass i have ever met anywhere. This will be the last time i post at your expense. Becuase your complete and utter ignorance is tiring. Your whole attitude is damn childish. Who belongs on the pokemon and spongebob squarepants board now? huh? I dont care if you have been on these boards longer than us. |
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Apr 29 2004, 03:15 AM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
That's a way to defend your argument, isn't it! Wow! Good job! I mean, there was so much support there that...
Aw, nevermind, you probably don't even know what support means. Besides, before we get into that, we should probably teach Capitalization, Spelling, Grammar, and of course, The Always-Useful, Ever-Amazing, Magical Comma. Okay, ignore all of the above, as it's over your head. Here's the real response: I know you are, but what am I? There we go. |
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Apr 29 2004, 03:16 AM
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#48
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Hey hey hey, simmer down. No need to rise to his bait.
~J |
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Apr 29 2004, 03:20 AM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
Kakkaraun>> you know i think i'll continue this cuase i dont care if someone feels like banning me from these boards cuase at least i can got to Sotsw where there are not people like you.
so 2 words.... FUCK YOU |
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Apr 29 2004, 03:21 AM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
i'm sick of taking shit from people on the net and your the first person i'm going to fight back against Kakkaraun. So FUCK OFF
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Apr 29 2004, 03:21 AM
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#51
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Man, having to do this twice in one day sucks. Chill out, folks. If you can't express your opinions without insulting people, express your opinions elsewhere.
And that goes for everyone; two wrongs do not make a right. |
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Apr 29 2004, 03:24 AM
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#52
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
sorry adam, this guy was having a go at me for no reason what so ever and he has no idea what hes talking about.
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Apr 29 2004, 03:25 AM
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#53
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
Mmm...yes. Or maybe you could employ the Magic of Private Messages. Actually, all of you could, but you choose not to, because you only do this as a primative chest-thumping exercise.
Ook, ook, ook. And of course, you won't get credit for your Specialness if nobody gets to see it, will you? Face it, this entire thing is a pissing contest. I'm not sure who won, yet, but I think it can easily be measured by which one of you gets the most back-patting by the others in different threads tomorrow ("ROFL! Yor jokez ar so funy!"). Right now my money's...well, definitely not on Mana Child. |
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Apr 29 2004, 03:29 AM
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#54
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
i believe adam said to stop.
oh and your still insulting me? its people like you that give places a bad name. |
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Apr 29 2004, 03:36 AM
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#55
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
I replied to the...yes, the first of your two Look at Me I'm Special I Can Say Fuck Without Mom Yelling at Me if I Say it on the Internet posts. Before any other messages came up.
And you're still posting here, rather than PMing me. Yes? |
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Apr 29 2004, 03:40 AM
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#56
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
*ignores and walks away to another rpg forum*
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Apr 29 2004, 03:44 AM
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#57
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
I've done my good deed for today, then.
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Apr 29 2004, 05:31 AM
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#58
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
The only person I recall acting like a moron here is you. You didn't have to post your disapproval of how he wanted to make an FF-esque character. You could have just been like "Oh, well, whatever. His perogative.", and then skipped off to another thread. But no, you had to post, just so later, when the whole thing exploded, you could start calling it a pissing contest, or something, just so you could seem like the intellectual, and win. |
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Apr 29 2004, 05:33 AM
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#59
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
LOL
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Apr 29 2004, 06:51 AM
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#60
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191 |
So, basically, you're saying "I was here first?" And you're condescending to Mana Child and others for immature behavior? Ok, so you joined Dumpshock first. How does that make your posts any less unnecessary and any more intelligent and witty? Anyway, i'm going to call a therapist to help me through the sting of being called a youngster. |
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Apr 29 2004, 07:36 AM
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#61
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 117 Joined: 29-April 04 Member No.: 6,291 |
Friggin' A. You guys flame, you flame hard.
Kakkaraun - There was a very appropriate, very topical Penny Arcade comic about you just a couple weeks ago. Edit: Substitute Dumpshock for UT. Green Blackboards (And Other Such Anomalies) Read it sometime, when you get a chance. I believe you shall find its contents... tasty as well as revealing. Heck, may even build ya, some moral character. (Apologies to he-knows-who. Sorry for stealing your sunshine.) |
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Apr 29 2004, 08:06 AM
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#62
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027 |
I EAT TIME>> ROFL thats a funny pic lol.
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 17th June 2026 - 04:54 AM |
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