In peoples experience: would you find final fantasies magic to be hermetic or shamanic
and why do you say one way or the other
Full Version: Mages and Shamans and Final Fantasy
It might help to specify which final fantasy you mean, Mana. There are 12, after all 
US FFIII is teh bomb.
And in my opinion, most FF's treat magic from the hermetic perspective.
US FFIII is teh bomb.And in my opinion, most FF's treat magic from the hermetic perspective.
LOL.
I believe most of the magic is hermetic in style, but there are spots where it might be considered more as shamanic. the mages I'd call hermetic, (the ones that like BOOM! spells, or classical white mage/healer). Anything else I believe usually gives the appearance of a more shamanistic style.
but I agree, it helps to pick out a specific Final Fantasy for comparison
I believe most of the magic is hermetic in style, but there are spots where it might be considered more as shamanic. the mages I'd call hermetic, (the ones that like BOOM! spells, or classical white mage/healer). Anything else I believe usually gives the appearance of a more shamanistic style.
but I agree, it helps to pick out a specific Final Fantasy for comparison
well i was talking about 10 actually and X-2 (even though i havent played X-2)
If you're talking FFX, definitely a mix of both!
although game-setup speaking, it's pretyt much hermetic if it's spell stuff from a class, any of the more unique things might be a bit more shamanistic. (dress spheres, for example, could be considered shaman-based, even though they give you classes with hermetic spell casting.)
although game-setup speaking, it's pretyt much hermetic if it's spell stuff from a class, any of the more unique things might be a bit more shamanistic. (dress spheres, for example, could be considered shaman-based, even though they give you classes with hermetic spell casting.)
what would summoners be then
I'm not too sure about the other 11, but I would say that the magic users in number six were shamans. They did get all of their magic and a good deal of other bonuses from espers. Only two? characters could learn any on their own.
I would call summoners shamans, since the eidolons were actual 'spirits' and SR spirit went under a similar (if not the same) concept.
as to FF6, I guess it's more shamanistic, but being it was chalkful of magic, it was 'traditional'.
quasar!!!! hehe
as to FF6, I guess it's more shamanistic, but being it was chalkful of magic, it was 'traditional'.
quasar!!!! hehe
yeah i got thinking about this stuff cause i wanted to build a Final Fantasy Style Magical type character using shadowrun. i dont know why i just felt like trying it out.
And what would the drain be on Ultima then? 
I think FF type spells could work with some tinkering, but the MP system vs the drain system is kind of hard to reconcile if you ask me. A shadowrun mage could in theory cast spells all day, or go out with the first one. A FF mage knows that his spell will always succeed, and casting the next will be exactly the same.
Course, it's not as bad as say, d&d, where you have to memorize your spells for the day (ick).
I do like the idea though. It'll just be difficult. I have a NPC in my campaigns who's a planewalker. He uses magic rules from shadowrun, Krynn (d&d), and a home-made system similar to FF; depending on the situation and his mood. Also nice that people familiar with one don't know how to resist the other system.
I think FF type spells could work with some tinkering, but the MP system vs the drain system is kind of hard to reconcile if you ask me. A shadowrun mage could in theory cast spells all day, or go out with the first one. A FF mage knows that his spell will always succeed, and casting the next will be exactly the same.
Course, it's not as bad as say, d&d, where you have to memorize your spells for the day (ick).
I do like the idea though. It'll just be difficult. I have a NPC in my campaigns who's a planewalker. He uses magic rules from shadowrun, Krynn (d&d), and a home-made system similar to FF; depending on the situation and his mood. Also nice that people familiar with one don't know how to resist the other system.
Well...
Ultima is an extended-area Powerball or Nova, cast at D and with a high enough force that you can usually expect it to not be staged down. And since I like elemental manips, that'd put it at about ((Force / 2)+1)(DL+3). Force 12 is about the highest a spell is going to reasonably get, so Ultima would probably have a drain somewhere around 13D.
A lot, but assuming a Magic of 12 (to cast without physical), you'd be dealing 12D to everything in a 240-meter sphere.
Ultima is an extended-area Powerball or Nova, cast at D and with a high enough force that you can usually expect it to not be staged down. And since I like elemental manips, that'd put it at about ((Force / 2)+1)(DL+3). Force 12 is about the highest a spell is going to reasonably get, so Ultima would probably have a drain somewhere around 13D.
A lot, but assuming a Magic of 12 (to cast without physical), you'd be dealing 12D to everything in a 240-meter sphere.
| QUOTE (Mana Child) |
| yeah i got thinking about this stuff cause i wanted to build a Final Fantasy Style Magical type character using shadowrun. i dont know why i just felt like trying it out. |
Yes...of course, you'd be the type of person defending D&D in the dungeon crawl thread...yeah...yeah.
So what's next? A human magician's way physad that SURGEd to have the Prehensile Tail and Unusual Hair flaws, has Distinctive Style because he always wears orange, and overuses Powerball and Levitate? And also uses the Enlarge spell on his staff a whole bunch?
...
Ooh ooh ooh, or why don't we just all play uber-chill silent break-and-enter types with Blandness and silenced pistols?
~J
~J
Alternatively, troubled childhood dark loner elven adepts.
Or amnesiac over-professional street sams with hidden headware mem, cortex bombs, and Dark Secret who were all on courier runs when they got waylaid.
^Only if they turn out to be dog shamans immune to Essence loss .
.
| QUOTE (Kakkaraun) | ||
Yes...of course, you'd be the type of person defending D&D in the dungeon crawl thread...yeah...yeah. So what's next? A human magician's way physad that SURGEd to have the Prehensile Tail and Unusual Hair flaws, has Distinctive Style because he always wears orange, and overuses Powerball and Levitate? And also uses the Enlarge spell on his staff a whole bunch? ... |
Darn it!!!!! How did you guess my next character. and it isnt a powerball its either laser or nova.
ok i bite, who the hell you guys talking about?
Google, dude!
| QUOTE (Kakkaraun) |
| ^Only if they turn out to be dog shamans immune to Essence loss . |
*highfive* 
However, I feel I must let it be known that I really do like that game, despite it's butchering of basic SR concepts .
Guns, guns, guns! Yar tar tee hee ho ta tar!
.Guns, guns, guns! Yar tar tee hee ho ta tar!
| QUOTE (Raptor1033) |
| ok i bite, who the hell you guys talking about? |
Well my friend we are talking about Goku.
Well, Goku and the Shadowrun SNES game. Two different things are happening here .
.
I think I'll leave before anyone notices me.
But I have to say, Mana Child, your topic tears into my very soul and makes Baby Jesus cry.
But I have to say, Mana Child, your topic tears into my very soul and makes Baby Jesus cry.
Good. His tears water my black soul.
~J
~J
err i wasent talking of converting anything from final fantasy to shadowrun actually, i was talking about characters who were of similar how could you put it.... character make up.
nether mind.
nether mind.
Oh, you mean concept? Funny that someone who defends D&D and likes FF would have trouble expressing that, but no trouble with numbers...yes...
The simple fact is that FF magic presents a very wide range of magical concepts. Hey, materia could be a weirdo talisman geas. Heh.
The simple fact is that FF magic presents a very wide range of magical concepts. Hey, materia could be a weirdo talisman geas. Heh.
i may be taking you the wrong way but from where i'm sitting i feel as if your insulting me. please dont say you are and if you are explain why as i may have been taken alittle wrong in the thread. As for dnd i have a soft spot for it cuase it was my first rpg.
i wasent even talking of using any FF spells. I mean more in concept than anything else. It was gonna use normal SR spells rules and everything.......
It was my first RPG too, but I've gotten past that and realized it's little more than a Table Top Fantasy Video Game Simulation. And a crappy one at that.
The main problem I have is that it seems that you're stuck in a DnD mindset, and you also type like you're on a Pokemon or Spongebob Squarepants board. So yes, I'm insulting you. Isn't it fun?
But my ultimate point is that you don't need to have a special class or something for an FF mage. Think outside the box, dude.
The main problem I have is that it seems that you're stuck in a DnD mindset, and you also type like you're on a Pokemon or Spongebob Squarepants board. So yes, I'm insulting you. Isn't it fun?
But my ultimate point is that you don't need to have a special class or something for an FF mage. Think outside the box, dude.
| QUOTE (Kakkaraun) |
| and you also type like you're on a Pokemon or Spongebob Squarepants board. So yes, I'm insulting you. Isn't it fun? |
could you please explain to me how that is ?
and what i have suddenly done to you.
| QUOTE (Kakkaraun) |
| But my ultimate point is that you don't need to have a special class or something for an FF mage. Think outside the box, dude. |
i didnt say i wanted a class either, its hard to explain, but i was actually trying to do it through concept and the way i chose my skills rather than anything else.
| QUOTE (Kakkaraun) |
| It was my first RPG too, but I've gotten past that and realized it's little more than a Table Top Fantasy Video Game Simulation. And a crappy one at that. The main problem I have is that it seems that you're stuck in a DnD mindset, and you also type like you're on a Pokemon or Spongebob Squarepants board. So yes, I'm insulting you. Isn't it fun? But my ultimate point is that you don't need to have a special class or something for an FF mage. Think outside the box, dude. |
Wonderful display of intelligence. Makes me think so highly of your opinions. I salute your rapier wit.
Seriously. Shut the fuck up.
~J
Thank you.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) | ||
Wonderful display of intelligence. Makes me think so highly of your opinions. I salute your rapier wit. Seriously. Shut the fuck up. ~J |
I second Diesel. I'm just disappointed that you beat me to the punch.
Like I said to Diesel, who chose to chase me to my PM box like a kindergartener running to mommy, "I'd rather be rude than evasive."
Then how about you do it on another website? This is the 3rd or 4th thread I've seen where you've become belligerent and insulting with no cause. I feel semi-secure in speaking for everyone when I say cork it or take it somewhere else. Mana Child asked a simple question, for God's sake.
| QUOTE (Smiley) |
| Then how about you do it on another website? This is the 3rd or 4th thread I've seen where you've become belligerent and insulting with no cause. I feel semi-secure in speaking for everyone when I say cork it or take it somewhere else. Mana Child asked a simple question, for God's sake. |
Heck, I don't think it's really a good idea, but you don't see me going of on a gigantic rant. I don't know what kind of a forum you came from, Kakkaruan, but your abuse is not appreciated on this board.
it seems all involved actually misunderstood my intention of the question now and now that it comes down to it what i was trying to do was make a character in the guise rather than anything else. I wasnt wanting to convert or change any rules or anything.
| QUOTE (Kakkaraun) |
| "I'd rather be rude than evasive." |
That's because you're a jackass who thrives on the token anonymity of the internet.
| QUOTE (Kakkaraun) |
| It was my first RPG too, but I've gotten past that and realized it's little more than a Table Top Fantasy Video Game Simulation. And a crappy one at that. The main problem I have is that it seems that you're stuck in a DnD mindset. |
Also if you think that D&D is nothing more than a Table Top Fantasy Video Game Simulation you have no idea what your damn well talking about. Oh yes a game been around since the 70's is really a hard core video game poser *cough*
You make me laugh.
D&D rocks
| QUOTE (Kakkaraun) |
| Like I said to Diesel, who chose to chase me to my PM box like a kindergartener running to..... 3.5 MP Deleted By Sysop |
Keep up that kinda BS and your gonna get banned from these boards soon enough. None of us are in the mood for your attitude, so kindly stuff it before you get locked in the Shadow Cell.
| QUOTE (Voorhees @ Apr 28 2004, 11:14 PM) | ||
That's because you're a jackass who thrives on the token anonymity of the internet. |
Nope, I act like this in the real world, too. Of course, people there are generally more used to the real world, where you do get bitched at for acting like a moron. <shrug>
As for DnD, why yes, 3e DID come out in the 70s. If by 70s you mean early 00s. Or was it 99? I honestly can't recall because I lost interest after seeing that they managed to make most of the rules suck harder. Levels, classes, HPs--all the elements of simplicity and non-reality that make videogames playable. Same thing with DnD. People seem to forget that it was originally conceived as a tactical expansion for a wargame, rather than a ROLE PLAYING game.
People also seem to forget to notice that I'm not just flaming, I made a pretty good point in my post, too. Accentuate the positive, people. It's not like I'm making you read my posts. By the way, I've noticed that plenty of people, like Clockwork Lime, flame a whole hell of a lot more than I do, they just do it with little yellow icons and such...slightly more subtle. I'm just being direct.
Edit: Oh yes, I've--let me check--yes, I've been around on these forums for longer than any of you /youngsters/. So...I guess you could say the "forum I came from" is here.
| QUOTE (Kakkaraun) | ||||
Nope, I act like this in the real world, too. Of course, people there are generally more used to the real world, where you do get bitched at for acting like a moron. <shrug> As for DnD, why yes, 3e DID come out in the 70s. If by 70s you mean early 00s. Or was it 99? I honestly can't recall because I lost interest after seeing that they managed to make most of the rules suck harder. Levels, classes, HPs--all the elements of simplicity and non-reality that make videogames playable. Same thing with DnD. People seem to forget that it was originally conceived as a tactical expansion for a wargame, rather than a ROLE PLAYING game. People also seem to forget to notice that I'm not just flaming, I made a pretty good point in my post, too. Accentuate the positive, people. It's not like I'm making you read my posts. By the way, I've noticed that plenty of people, like Clockwork Lime, flame a whole hell of a lot more than I do, they just do it with little yellow icons and such...slightly more subtle. I'm just being direct. Edit: Oh yes, I've--let me check--yes, I've been around on these forums for longer than any of you /youngsters/. So...I guess you could say the "forum I came from" is here. |
Twit. D&D 1st Eidtion was late 60's early 70's. The game is over 25 years old and predated RPG video games by a few years easy.
What the fuck are you talking about? I /OWN/ the original DnD different-color-rulebooks-and-whatnot set. Okay? Jesus tapdancing Christ.
What I mean when I relate DnD to videogames is that they both have the same depth of roleplaying (depending on your group, but I've played in enough DnD groups to know that that's the norm), and the same relationship with reality (IE, neither model the real world all that well...and I'm not talking about magic and monsters, I'm talking about real-world rules and guidelines...like the one that says it's not logical to sit and slash at some beast for 20 minutes until one of you dies).
What I mean when I relate DnD to videogames is that they both have the same depth of roleplaying (depending on your group, but I've played in enough DnD groups to know that that's the norm), and the same relationship with reality (IE, neither model the real world all that well...and I'm not talking about magic and monsters, I'm talking about real-world rules and guidelines...like the one that says it's not logical to sit and slash at some beast for 20 minutes until one of you dies).
| QUOTE (Kakkaraun) |
| [QUOTE=Kakkaraun]"I'd rather be rude than evasive."[/QUOTE] That's because you're a jackass who thrives on the token anonymity of the internet. [/QUOTE] Nope, I act like this in the real world, too. Of course, people there are generally more used to the real world, where you do get bitched at for acting like a moron. <shrug> As for DnD, why yes, 3e DID come out in the 70s. If by 70s you mean early 00s. Or was it 99? I honestly can't recall because I lost interest after seeing that they managed to make most of the rules suck harder. Levels, classes, HPs--all the elements of simplicity and non-reality that make videogames playable. Same thing with DnD. People seem to forget that it was originally conceived as a tactical expansion for a wargame, rather than a ROLE PLAYING game. People also seem to forget to notice that I'm not just flaming, I made a pretty good point in my post, too. Accentuate the positive, people. It's not like I'm making you read my posts. By the way, I've noticed that plenty of people, like Clockwork Lime, flame a whole hell of a lot more than I do, they just do it with little yellow icons and such...slightly more subtle. I'm just being direct. Edit: Oh yes, I've--let me check--yes, I've been around on these forums for longer than any of you /youngsters/. So...I guess you could say the "forum I came from" is here. |
You have to be the most ignorant, unknowlagable, annoying ass i have ever met anywhere. This will be the last time i post at your expense. Becuase your complete and utter ignorance is tiring. Your whole attitude is damn childish. Who belongs on the pokemon and spongebob squarepants board now? huh?
I dont care if you have been on these boards longer than us.
That's a way to defend your argument, isn't it! Wow! Good job! I mean, there was so much support there that...
Aw, nevermind, you probably don't even know what support means. Besides, before we get into that, we should probably teach Capitalization, Spelling, Grammar, and of course, The Always-Useful, Ever-Amazing, Magical Comma.
Okay, ignore all of the above, as it's over your head. Here's the real response: I know you are, but what am I?
There we go.
Aw, nevermind, you probably don't even know what support means. Besides, before we get into that, we should probably teach Capitalization, Spelling, Grammar, and of course, The Always-Useful, Ever-Amazing, Magical Comma.
Okay, ignore all of the above, as it's over your head. Here's the real response: I know you are, but what am I?
There we go.
Hey hey hey, simmer down. No need to rise to his bait.
~J
~J
Kakkaraun>> you know i think i'll continue this cuase i dont care if someone feels like banning me from these boards cuase at least i can got to Sotsw where there are not people like you.
so 2 words.... FUCK YOU
so 2 words.... FUCK YOU
i'm sick of taking shit from people on the net and your the first person i'm going to fight back against Kakkaraun. So FUCK OFF
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