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[JTNLANGE]

I was wondering about the mana levels. If you take what canon says then each world last about 7500 years, with the peak being about 3500 years in. that means that as the magic level rises and magic becaomes more powerful we get new "things" happening, like shedim and insect spirits and SURGE. if all this stuff is happening now and we are only a few years in what could possible be in store. Now I now that the mana level is along way from hitting peak and that at the rate that game is progressing there is no way we would ever hit that, but it is kinda cool to think about. Also is the metacampaign tied into the rise of mana?


Trevor

[TinkerGnome]

Horrors. They are what will show up at the peak.

Shedim aren't really a function of the mana level, I don't think. They were just trapped somewhere... else.

[Garland]

The mana level is actually rising way faster than it should. Supposedly it was "jump-started" by the Great Ghost Dance. Instead of a gradual building of mana we get disasters like Goblinization, SURGE, nuclear meltdowns, volcanic eruptions, etc.

This, of course, implies that certain people/organizations want the mana level elevated faster. Make of that what you will.

[Ancient History]

The mana level appears to be rising normally, now. The Great Ghost Dance created a "Spike" which would have let them in thousands of years earlier at the exact location of the dance; but it has since been levelled off to more-or-less normal.

As the mana level rises, other planes gain access to the normal one and more stuff appears. THe Shedim may be a fluke caused by the unusual circumstances of Dunkelzahn's death and Ghostwalker's return.

The Horrors have a "window" of opportunity to come through and maintain themselves that's approx. 800 years long; the most powerful require even higher windows and thus have much shorter periods where they can maintain themselves fully ont he physical plane (although they can maintain themselves on the astral plane for a greater period before and afterwards).

Some Horrors only need a certain mana level to enter, not to remain.

[JTNLANGE]

Yeah that makes sense. Hadn't thought about that. Who would want the mana level to rise faster though. My bet would be the elves. or the dragons maybe. Wasn't it one of the elves who taught Daniel Howling Coyote the GDD. And why is having the mana level rising faster a good thing? I would think that having the horrors back is bad right? I mean didn't Harlequin go to all that trouble not to mention the big D just to make sure that the horrors wouldn't come back any sooner then they had to.


Trevor

[Nikoli]

The Dragons and the IE's typically don't want these things to return. But who'se to saythere isn't a harbinger of sorts working to speed things along?

Some sort of very low power horror that needs only the mana levels prior to 2011 to maintain a presence. Or maybe it appeared to a willing subject, and is duping them into these actions.

[Nath]

[TinkerGnome]

Who taught the GDD is a mystery. I've heard rumors that it was a certain dwarf with a questionable lineage who has been around a very long time.

One of the theories I initially heard (a very, very long time ago) was that the mana level is tied, somehow, to the amount of life on the planet. I've since come to reconsider that one because of VITAS and the like. Death like that should have slowed the mana growth a bit.

The theory went that the horrors came in when it hit a peak and then killed and rampaged life until there was so little left that they were forced back to their home dimensions. The caers in earthdawn stunted the process because so many metahumans survived the Scourge and left the world stuck in a half-peak state for a while.

[shadd4d]

But what about someone who wants their full power. If you thin about it, imagine drinking in a child's cup (yes, the one for babies). If you or I know we can chug 1,5 liters of Diet Coke in 1 gulp, but we can't do that with a baby's glass. Hence wanting to increase the levels of mana in order to be able to have access to more.

What about another thought? What if (big assumption here) protection against the horrors also requires a certain level of magic? If that were true, then some might want to speed up the process so they can "secure their personal bomb shelters."

What about the born drakes, Icewing's pet project? If they only emerge during SURGE and such levels, then the dragons might want to have their, in their eyes, only trustworthy and competent servants at their beck and call.

I guess this view is: if magic has brought something good, more of it will bring more goodness. I can see quite a few people taking that view, even if they knew better.

Don

[Nikoli]

Speaking of ED, where are the rock people in SR? almost evey other playable race is in SR, why not show some love to the rocks?

[Siege]

Or the t'skrang.

Seriously though, there are various speculations -- the toxic levels somehow killed the rocks, they didn't survive the downtime, the mana levels aren't high enough, etc.

I think ultimately the designers were trying not to import the entire ED line directly into a futuristic setting and leave some things open for possible development later.

-Siege

[Garland]

I have this theory that races manifest at least partially based on the beliefs that metahumanity holds. An example would be cyclopes-trolls showing up in Greece. When the mana level is high enough, it acts on that sort of cultural belief.

This would explain why the Atlantean Foundation is introducing "Lizardmen" and "Earth Elementals" as player-character races in the Dawn of Atlantis online game (see Target: Matrix). It's an attempt to re-acquaint the population's unconscious with these races.

Of course, this is just my theory. One could easily turn the whole thing around and say it's not belief but memory; cyclopes only show up in Greece and that's just the way it is, and that's why the culture there includes myths of cyclopes.

Edit: As a side note, I'm a much bigger fan of the t'skrang than the obsidimen. The t'skrang are about the best-realized race of lizardmen I've ever seen in an RPG. But then again, I've got a weakness for swashbuckling.

This post has been edited by Garland: Jun 15 2004, 03:27 PM

[TinkerGnome]

Obsidimen might be gone forever unless something changed to the whole Liferock dynamic. No clue, though, since I never played one in ED and can't remember how important the rocks were to their survival.

[Ancient History]

Small Notes:

Cyclops appear in ED too (admittedly, in LRG's timeline).

There's a possible report of t'skrang in Corporate Download; it was mentioned that Scale was seen in a lizard-man form. Of course, that may just be a function of his age.

Obsidimen are weird...sort of fragmented spirits in bodies made from flesh and elemental earth. The closest approximation I could give is when Zebulon broke up into sub-spirits; with each sub spirit being a distinct spirit that was yet conencted to the others. Even that example is incorrect or insufficient in many respects.

NMath: You should know better than to spread bad rumors! :P

[Garland]

Not just cyclops, but ghoul-cyclops! :spin:

[BitBasher]

It was officially stated in an interview at a convention some years ago that those races that had not yet appeared were dead forever.

[Siege]

[BitBasher]

[MrSandman666]

What about local mana peaks? could it be possible for a horror to enter the sixth world through a local mana spike of some sort and live there for as long as the peak exists? He would probably be bound to the area of the peak but would it be possible?

[TinkerGnome]

It depends on the horror.

[Garland]

If you're the GM, sure it's possible. There are plenty of precendents of "localized magical anomalies."

[Dax]

[LaughingTiger]

The Horrors themselves are very vague in defintion. There's no taxonomy, no form or reason to them. They're horrors, the smallers inflict physical pain and destruction, the larger ones feed on emotional pain and anguish. They vary from ungodly thing to ungodly thing.

What we do know:

1. Horrors live in a "part" of the Astral plane, something called the "Netherrealms".
2. Magid needs to be a certain level for some of them to appear here, and that ammount varies from Horror to Horror.
3. Some of them have long term plans that could potentially survive from Scourge to Scourge, the "scourge" being the time when Horrors walk the earth and those no protected die horrible, horrible deaths.

So if you wanted to incorporate a horror into your game, there's plenty of room for you to do so. I think, conversly, the more powerful horrors can manufacture their own level of mana/magical activity and "cross over" before it's supposed to happen, especially now since the 6th world is kinda messed up. Even the pros, the Dragons and IE's, are at a loss to explain somethings. And there's so much they don't want us to know.

What's in store? A gradual increase in magic, till a large portion of the population can innately work magic to some degree. It doesn't translate well into SR rules, but heroes and people in EarthDawn are a form of adept. Then a world-ending catastrophe, wars, volcanoes, earthquakes, the construction of kaers, a time of hiding, and then we start all over again. That is, if the 6th world takes the same route as the 3rd, or 4th.

Really, it's all up in the air.

And there will always, always be T'skrang, somewhere, in some lonely river.

Anybody ever think about using Obsidimen for a horror-atmosphere game? Sent to investigate a mining camp that everyone has lost contact with, after they reportedly struck some unknown type of mineral vien, concentrated in one large clump? Maddened, toxic-corrupted Obsidimen on the rampage...

[Nikoli]

Or someone summons up an earth elemental, who just happens to not go away and doesn't blindly obey anymore...

[JTNLANGE]

Having never played ED, at what point in the 4th world does the game happen. Could there be a worse thing than horrors out there that we don't know about. If the end of the magic cycle has things not being able to survive because the mana level is to low maybe at the peak of the cycle there is a world altering "thing" that can survive. Wouldn't be a very long time in the grand scheme maybe just a few years but the culmination of all the mana could bring on a world altering event that prepares the world for the next cycle? Any thoughts.

Also what could the next round of changes be? We had goblinization,SURGE, Magic-users and new breeds of animals, What could be next?


Trevor

[Traks]

Haven't read that ED that all keep talking about. But, I am interested to show my players a pair of horrors. Does anyone of you fanboys have converted at least one little tiny puny horror? If so, could you post statistics of one or two of them?

[Lantzer]

Other races:

In any game I run, Tskrang are probably dead. It's hard to see what they might spring from.

Obsidimen are likely viable, but in deep trouble. What are they, after all? Living black stone-like creatures spawned from deposits of probably organic-rich black minerals. You know, like coal, oil shale, and the like.

Most of the Obsidimen have probably been quarried. It doesn't neccesarily mean they have to be all dead. I could see a strip mining operation running into trouble because of 'ecoterrorist' damage. I could see experts brought in to take out the 'toxic earth elemental' which is communicating its disfavor to the miners.

[Siege]

Well frag, I wanted a pair of t'skrang boots.

-Siege

[Lantzer]

Well, there's always the Nagahide sofa.

[Adarael]

[Senchae]

[BitBasher]

[Bob the Ninja]

Personally I can't wait until the Horrors pop out. last go-around they had to deal with bows and arrows.

Now the 6th world has machine guns and nukes. Say hello to my leetle friend!

[Zeel De Mort]

Wraiths are horrors are they not?

They're covered in PAoE, and probably in some other book too although it escapes me which one.

Other than those, and anything in Harlequin's back, I can't think where you can find stats for any horrors in SR. I might have a bash at converting one or two from ED into SR stats though, just for amusement.

I wouldn't be surprised if a handful of other horrors show up in SR books eventually, although I wouldn't expect to see anything major.

As for who'd want horrors to show up sooner: I heard a rumour Aztechnology might be quite keen on this happening...

[Sahandrian]

there was a lengthy thread on the brown forums that had a bunch of horror stats converted (not conversed) to SR3. Of course, I can't find it anymore and never thought to save the thing...

[Backgammon]

[Ancient History]

Wraiths are either minor Horrors or Horror-constructs. Probably the latter.

Dax; Senchae: I too believe Scale is a drake, but a drake form is frankly impossible to be mistaken for a lizard-man form; and the main reason for taking the form of a t'skrang would be to facilitate communication with t'skrang. Or so the almost-logic goes.

[/edit] For those who want to include Horrors in their game, small localized (and very temporary) mana spikes can let them through; and some very insane magicians may actuall be able to summon (though likely not control) them. Only very minor Horrors should be summonable at this stage, with a few exceptions (Ysrthgrathe, for one), more powerful Horrors would be stuck to pureply astral forms. Like Nomads.

[Hida Tsuzua]

Out of curiosity, is there ever been anything about the pre-Scourge/early 4th world in ED? Was the technology like now? Cavemen? Medieval without guns? With guns?

[TinkerGnome]

There are plenty of pieces of the pre-scourge world around. Pretty much high fantasy type medieval world as far as I've seen.

[LaughingTiger]

[Phaeton]

Saaaaay...I just realized...Think that by the time the Horrors arrive that magic/technology blends will look like something out of Phantasy Star Online? Or will it be more like Half-Life/Doom?

Or both, even better yet? :grinbig:

[LaughingTiger]

[Ancient History]

Magical technique actually advanced during the Scourge from Pre-Scourge times, but several notable techniques have been lost:

--The stone ships of the Scavians that could sail the Death's Sea (think the Black Sea, but made out of lava) as a normal ship goes through water or an airship through air.

--Written Sperethiel was almost completely forgotten, due to lack of writing materials

The T'skrang possessed a sort of techno-magical device, the equivalent of a steam engine that ran on a magical element.

[kevyn668]

Chantrell's Horror...<shivers>

I'm a charter member of the "Humans Rule!" camp but that one made me (in RL), well, shiver.

[@ toturi: GO HUMANS!!:)]

[MrSandman666]

Chantrell's Horror? Could somebody enlighten me? :|

[Ancient History]

A Horror that marked, stalks, and mutilates the family of the Human Chantrel. Basically, the Horror can mark anyone (preferrably related by blood) connected to Chantrel...and then it basically vivisects them from the astral plane using it's Astral Slice power. It keeps Chantrel alive so she can go start another family for Chantrel's Horror to destroy and allow the Horror to feed off Chantrel's despair.

[toturi]

[MrSandman666]

[Ancient History]

Some Horrors get fixated on a particular victim, like Ysrthgrathe and Aina.

Yes, Astral Slice is the equivalent of small whirring blades that can afflict victims on the physical plane from the astral.

The test to mark a new victim for vivisection depends on the closeness of the relationship--blood ties are damn near automatic, lovers and spouses are easy, friends and business associates are hard but not impossible.

Just for an example. If Chantrel beds down in a small town for a night after buying a loaf of bread, the Horror could potentially mark and kill the entire town while Chantrel is sleeping (by connecting to the merchant, the merchant's family, their lovers, their friends, the family of the lovers and friends, etc.)

Chantrel's Horror also keeps Chantrel young (although it once let her grow old to trick her into taking a lover), and prevents suicide or murder of it's preferred victim by regenerating her torn flesh (yes, the Horror can make her a new body just like the old one if her old one is too far gone.)

A Horror mark is an astral sign in the victim's aura. You can usually see it on the astral as a black or blank patch.

[toturi]

You know? After so many years of association, Chantel's Horror should be her best friend. Logically, it should target itself. Evil feeds up on itself.

[MrSandman666]

What the...? The Horror is able to influence her age and regenerate/revive/clone her? I knew they where powerfull, but THAT powerfull? I believe he's one of the greater ones, right? I have no real idea as to how powerfull horrors really are so I'm tripping in the dark here...

[CoalHeart]

There are reasons they are called 'Horrors' you know. They can do all the sick and twisted sh*t that your average kidnapping pervert troll can't.
Thank god the mage in my group hasn't been trying to create a Mana Spike to bring over a small horror to then try to control. But if he did.... well... lets just say he won't be peeing while standing anymore. ;)

[MrSandman666]

Well, there are many things being called "horror" today that are neither scary nor powerfull in any way...

Would be really interesting to see some SR stats for those guys. Might send one after my players one day! :vegm:

[Herald of Verjig...]

The lesser Horrors are basically thugs. They bring destruction and some travel in large packs, but any one is easy* to kill and most are easy to recognize.

Those that have names are a different matter. They vary greatly and have different priorities. The reasoning for specific behaviour of the Named is unknown, but many of them do seem to follow the same basic plan when they visit. Artificer makes mazes, Tempter assists those working on noble goals, Aazhvat induces insanity the world over, and Giftbringer deals in envy.

What sort of trouble do you wish to impose?

*with enough firepower

[MrSandman666]

[kevyn668]

[shadd4d]

For the named horrors, check out the book Horrors (translated as Dämonen). I think it stats around 12-14 and gives you an idea of their powers.

As a group, they are far more powerful than Great Dragons (who wisely hid themselves away from the baddies). There's probably about 12-20 high powered named ones, around a couple hundred-couple thousand lesser, self-named horrors, and then tag on perhaps a million or so thug horrors, probably .2 to .05 per person on the world.

Verjigorm, IIRC, is the horror who took over a Great Dragon.

The guy to give numbers is AH. If he doesn't know or can't look it up, then it's a GM decision.

Don

PS. It's easy. Take a look (idealistic and simplistic, albeit) at the war in Afgahnistan. Idealist mission, noble to help out people, but it goes to heck due to the actions of the noble. He aids you in trying to secure the moon for the masses, but he's going to make you fail. Failed hero is the result, IIRC.

[MrSandman666]

Ah, thanks for the clarifications on Tempter. I can see how that works now.

So, how powerfull would the self named ones be? I think that the named ones are just too powerfull and too world changing to get them in contact with the PCs and they probably couldn't even get through in a mana peak either. The thugs are probably too weak and more like a regular spook (albeit a nasty one).

[Traks]

That's why I asked for horror stats, weakest of them.
I am really not sure that I want to buy a book for two stat blocks.
Or is there somewhere on Inet made/converted?

Maybe for sheer fun also Mantis thread should be ressurrected? I kinda liked it :)

[Herald of Verjig...]

To have a Horror-backed campaign does not need one to be active on earth. A region where wraiths are acting unusually organized could be the basis of attempting to aspect the magic in that region so one of the weaker Named can get a foothold. A corrupted mage with an old book can be the cause of some similar trouble. Maybe have one of the conjuring attempts get a gnasher or wingflayer (just one) and the PCs either try to fight it or just run.

Slipshades are minor Horrors that don't follow the expected patterns. All they seem to do is gather pretty things and hoard them. You could be mean by having the PCs find an abandoned lair of some drogn-kin and have a few slipshades oppose their efforts to loot.

If you have a type of place that you want some Horror or construct to fill, I can see what fits best and give you a few interpretations of the stats.

[Siege]

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

-Siege

[Ancient History]

Horrors range in power from the Dread Iota (which is basically a bacteria) to completely physical critters that can be killed by a farmer with a pitchfork (and can kill the farmer with the pitchfork) to dragonslayers.

That said, there's one big nasty: Verjigorm, Hunter of Great Dragons. You heard that right, he hunts Great Dragons, kills them, and steals their eggs to Corrupt them. With four other powerful Horrors, Verjigorm once took the time to force a dragon to write a book on the history of the Horrors...by making it rip out its own scales to use as parchment, rip out its own talons to use as pens, and use its own blood as ink.

Thankfully, Verjigorm requires a very high mana level to physically manifest for any length of time.

The thing about Horrors is that they come all at once. For every Named Horror, there's lots and lots and lots of unNamed Horrors who are still deadly, if not as powerful, intelligent or particular in how they feed. Hell, there's one Horror that feeds on other Horrors(note: he still manages to kill quite a few people in the process)! And for every unNamed Horror, you can bet your ass there's a bunch of Horror constructs, which vary from shambling undead to...weirder...and deadlier...things. Consider this: a group of windlings was corrupted into flying half-humanoid half-maggots who can reshape bone at will from a distance...letting them suddenly cave in your skull, say, or twist your spine into a disturbing sculpture. That said, a bullet through the head should kill one of 'em.

[/edit] For weak Horrors in SR, use Nomads and Wraiths from the SR3 Critters booklet.

[LaughingTiger]

[kevyn668]

Do you mean the "Nothing" ?

[Herald of Verjig...]

[LaughingTiger]

[Zeel De Mort]

Okay, here's a quick and dirty horror conversion I knocked out. I'm not claiming by any means it's very accurate or well-rounded, but just something to have a look at.

A Wormskull is moderate to low-powered horror taken from the main rulebook. There are weaker ones than this, and there are much, much stronger ones too. It's not one of the coolest or most.. horrible, but something to throw around I guess. Typically they manifest in a roughly humanoid form, 5-8ft tall. Their head is a bare skull covered and filled with worms, and the body is likewise made of writhing worms covered with pieces of armour. Their presence also tends to remove moisture from an area of 1000m around them. Just a flavour thing I suppose, to make things more creepy. :D

I'd treat them a bit like a spirit, since they have the ability to materialise and to disappear completely to the astral plane again. So give it the materialization power, but not the Immunity (normal weapons) or stats suggested in Critters (the other immunities are fine though (i.e. age, pathogens, poisons)). Also, unlike regular spirits, I'm sure horrors would be all too keen to materialise if it caused more despair and fear around them!


Wormskull

Force 6

Qui 4
Str 3
Bod 5/6
Int 5
Wil 5
Cha 3
Ess 6

Init 2d6+4

Hardened Armour (6, which is the 6 after the slash for Bod stat)

Animate Dead: To use this power the horror must touch part of the corpse to be affected. Make Force (6) test, if successful the corpse rises as a Zombie under the control of the horror, and remains in existence for three days. All the Zombie's stats are equal to half the horror's force. Calculate initiative and combat pool normally. A horror can create and control a number of Zombies equal to its Force, and exert influence over them up to a range of Force x 50m. Control is via an empathic bond and requires no test once the Zombie has been created, although the horror must be able to concentrate to issue any orders.

Immunity (Fear effects and spells)

Skin Shift: Make a Force test against the natural Body of the victim. If at least one success is scored the character takes Light physical damage, staged up as normal by extra successes (two successes cause a Moderate wound, etc). On each of the horror's next two actions, make the same test. On the first of the three actions roll three extra dice on the Force test. Maintaining this power over three actions requires no concentration, but it can only be used on one character at a time.

Spellcasting: Any spells up to Force 6, GMs discretion.

Terror: Make a Force test against the Willpower of all characters within 50m. If any successes are achieved on a character that character must make a willpower (Force) test to take any action against the horror. Until a successful willpower test is made, an affected character can take no other actions and remains cowering and wailing in terror. Using this power causes an automatic light stun wound to the horror.

-----

For those that don't know ED, Skin Shift is a particularly nasty horror power, and when a character is damaged by it "his skin tears loose from muscles and ligaments, twisting and rotating about his body". Nice eh? :)

Brief Earthdawn Stats I used, as taken from LRG main rulebook:

Dex 12
Str 10
Tou 10
Per 13
Wil 11
Cha 8


Animate Dead 24
Horror Durability 12-22
Immune to Fear
Skin Shift 24
Spells: Circle 6 Nethermancer
Terror 25


I roughly divided all the ED stats by three and changed them to SR stats, then modified some according to Physical/Spell Defence, Death Rating and so on.

Yeah, I know there are Zombies in MitS, but I just made my own version up, okay? :)

[Moonstone Spider]

Hmm, I think most SR campaigns would need something tougher than the Wormskull to actually give an average party trouble. Even at Chargen plenty of Sams have higher initiative, and his armor will really only help with some SMGs, and Light Pistols. Unless you send them in numbers so large the players are swamped, of course, but you can kill the party swamping them with vast numbers of rabid housecats. I'd want my Horrors to be a bit more horrifying than something that's getting mowed down by the dozens by the Samurai's AK-98.

[Fygg Nuuton]

never playing ED my impression is to an SR character anything not uberpowerful is easily taken care of, its the nasties that you need to worry about, but this is only my impression, YMMV

[kevyn668]

[Siege]

[Herald of Verjig...]

I think he might be referring to Ristul. During ED, Ristul is an astrally limited Horror who is basically indistinguishable from the background count. This may be due to Ristul being most of the background count.

The little detail that three of the strongest spirits in ED may have paid with their own sanity (and slowly, more of themselves) to slow Ristul from consuming the earth may support the comparison.

Listed powers: (paraphrased)
Corrupt Karma: If the Horror makes a test, it can prevent a character from using karma to oppose the Horror. The TN is higher to prevent any use of karma. Must be done for each attempted use of karma. Requires LoS or a Horror Mark.
Horror Mark: Gives the marker effective LoS to the marked.
Horror Thread: A boosted form of Mark. Through time, study, and spent karma, the Horror can gain great understanding of a victim as well as be able to remotely control the victim in a manner similar to possession but with no chance of relayed injury. This can be used to override the target's own preferences or to shift the target's preferences so that it becomes a willing servant.
Karma Tap: The Horror may be able to give a suggestion to a target. A Mark makes it easier. If the suggestion is followed, the target has a bonus to a game mechanic that is difficult to translate to SR to complete that task. Maybe an extra pool or something.

Ristul's behaviour in the world was mostly limited to two specific manifestations.

Nightwists are nightmares given substance.
Ristular are the physical remains of people consumed by Ristul.

[LaughingTiger]

[Traks]

Stylish horror. I am more interested in that one, helping heroes. On another note, I think that Faust got a great deal. He achieved everything he strived for, and did not pay for that. Bills were paid by others near him.

Okay, idea, blatantly ripped from Urusei Yatsura. I want horror which gives victim instant successes and helps to look cool, like shooting all enemies with two shotguns and then spinning them like pistols before putting away. All for one day - at the end of day he manifests and consumes soul of victim. Here is where his stats are needed, if someone near will be willing to help "the lucky guy" - and I think they will not. Powers are not needed at all, they are quite self-explaining.

[toturi]

I always had this idea of using a Horror Mark against the Horror, just like a symbolic link type of thing, If you have something on me, then I have something on you.

[Abstruse]

[Ancient History]

Well, it's a common example. A mark reflects the Horror that made it, and might be hidden, and sometimes just looks different. A mark probably couldn't be mistaken for cyberware.

[Nikoli]

But, what if cyberware (it's effect on the soul) is the result of a horror, possibly the Faustian deal one.

[Ancient History]

It doesn't work like that. A mark is slightly more involved than a dog pissing on a tree to mark it, but notably alien from the aura itself (rather than a reflection of the difference between the body and implants). Asides from which, none of the "Faustian" Horrors work like that. If Artificer and Nemesis got together they could /probably/ come up with some pseudo-cyberware.

[Nikoli]

What if they influenced the creation of something that would slowly destroy the soul while seemingly give you an edge? think of the treasure trove of pain that cyberzombies must present for Horrors.

It's just a thought

[toturi]

Send in the cyberzombies to go after the Horrors.

[kevyn668]

Second.

[Nikoli]

And see those same zombies become meat puppets for the horrors, I doubt the zombies could defend themselves. I think they'd be too busy pondering the meaning of that last birthday candle on their 2nd birthday cake to notice the mind of something truly resembling a demon slipping into their body.

[toturi]

Well, the Horror isn't going anywhere after it possesses a cyberzombie. Heck, just install an off switch on the cyberzombie a la Burnout/Lethe and voila! Horror prison!

[Nikoli]

Why couldn't the Horror control a cyberzombie?

[toturi]

Because all the cybernetics got switched off?

Because the Horror is now happily figuring out the meaning of that last candle? Because the MBW 4 just caused CDS? Because... :D

[Ancient History]

Because the Horror can kill the silly cyberzombie and just animate the dead corpse of a body?

[toturi]

True... but it could have done the same to any normal (meta)human.

[Nikoli]

what can I say? I'm inspired for a game I'm running

:vegm:

[Senchae]

[Herald of Verjig...]

Either they snapped and let Ristul in with little resistance, or they offered themselves and many of their followers to slow Ristul so that it could not spread far during the height of the mana cycle (when it could physically manifest). Which sequence of events you hear depends on which historian you listen to.

[Moonstone Spider]

It'd be interesting to see how Ristul would fare against some high-level FAB-III clouds (Or, if this is the future of SR, something more advanced along the same lines, like FAB-VII). One is a living Spirit/Background count, the other eats background counts, Spirits, and pretty much anything else magical as well. If Ristul covered a wide area he might even be vulnerable to multiple clouds at once. We'd need a force Rating for Ristul when calculating damage, though.

One concern with SR, remember that if your players meet a Horror, the odds are they will devote the rest of their lives to hunting down and killing Horrors. Somehow, they will find a way. Most runners, even fairly amoral ones, will tend to decide that it's in their own best interest to make sure those things aren't the future. And if they're fairly moral types, then there's no way they'll go back to stealing paydata for Mr. Johnson when more of those things might be showing up. They might do stuff like that to earn a little cred on the side, but they will probably have a new goal in life, and when they're constantly searching the Matrix for evidence of encounters, bringing bits of the Horror's body to DIMR for inspection, posting messages in Shadowland (Where a lot of people who know what the Horrors are hang out) etc. it's pretty hard for the GM to stop them. So you might want to think carefully about inserting Horrors unless you're going to run a very horror-centric campaign.

[Person 404]

[MrSandman666]

DIMR? :huh:

[TinkerGnome]

Don't know about eating background count, but it will create voids (source: Target: UCAS).

[LaughingTiger]

[BitBasher]

I think this thread is a good example why the "horrors crossing over" plotline was largely eliminated and left for dead in the DragonHeart trilogy.

[Moonstone Spider]

Mr. Sandman: DIMR is the Dunkelzahn Institute of Magical Research, set up in his will to study magic. Of course what they know about horrors is debatable since FASA, and to some Degree Fanpro, didn't/doesn't like letting the players know what is going on in their own games, but if I ran into a Horror I'm pretty sure that's where my character would take the body for study.

Actually if the Horrors really got Nasty I suspect humans would just migrate into space for the Duration. Nothing Astral can survive in space. They've already got sufficient space travel ability to have orbital habitats that can handle themselves permanently, a few hundred of those all over the place, and the Horrors can have EArth for the Scourge while Mankind's safe and sound up there. Maybe build an orbital ring system with a series of Upraised Middle Fingers painted on it's underside to remind them what we think of them, and the Dragons too since they won't be able to come and get to live with the Horrors by themselves.

Frustration; one of Humanity's greatest Weapons against the Horrors.

[John Campbell]

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. That's the only way to be sure.

[BitBasher]

Ho-ho-hold on one second. This installation has a substantial dollar value attached to it! and what, you're.. you're a sergeant? I dont think you have the kind of authority to make a decision like that.