 Wasting spirits... |
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 Mar 18 2005, 11:35 PM
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#1
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I am not here...  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 80 Joined: 21-May 04 From: Deepest Darkest Wales Member No.: 6,349  |
I was just reading through SR3 looking at spirit combat for another thread and came across an interesting aside at the top of page 188. It says that a character in melee with a spirit can try to use force of will rather than force of arms to take said spirit on.
Now I've always played it using the willpower/charisma thing but does this mean that you don't have to? I know about the immunity to normal weapons stuff already but I have some really strong characters who could wipe force 5 or 6 spirits if they got to use their normal stuff like twin dikoted cyber spurs. I don't have a problem with this I just need rules fu. |
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Mar 18 2005, 11:57 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Force of will is an option. Regular attacks that must also deal with the immunities of manifestation are also an option.
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Mar 19 2005, 12:09 AM
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#3
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
You can try and take it on with regular combat, but it has hardened armor (Immunity to Normal Weapons), good-luck trying to get through that by normal means.
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Mar 19 2005, 12:28 AM
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#4
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
So, for a force 5 spirit, any attack that has a damaging Power (not base Power) of 11 or more can hurt the spirit. However, that Power is reduced by 10 (unless it is elemental or magical). Still, a powerful melee attack can harm them with enough successes and staging. Remember that a spirit uses its Reaction as its melee skill without penalty. |
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Mar 19 2005, 12:32 AM
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#5
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I am not here... Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 80 Joined: 21-May 04 From: Deepest Darkest Wales Member No.: 6,349 |
Thanks I just needed the clarification as I'd always just used will power.
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Mar 19 2005, 04:33 AM
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#6
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
Remember a force 5 spirit has 10 points of hardened armour against normal attacks.
Is a strength 13 troll with twin cyber spurs and full ambidexterity better of using is char 2 will 3, or just shredding the thing old style. Edward |
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Mar 19 2005, 04:46 AM
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#7
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
shredding it with his spurs, definitely. he's going to have massive dice on his attacks, and he can jack up the damage code with extra successes.
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Mar 19 2005, 04:38 AM
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#8
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
What's the troll's melee skill and level of ambidexterity? What type of spirit?
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Mar 19 2005, 12:12 PM
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#9
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I am not here... Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 80 Joined: 21-May 04 From: Deepest Darkest Wales Member No.: 6,349 |
Cyber implant combat 6, strength 16, twin dikoted spurs so multiply the strength by 1.5 and you can shred most things. Wouldn't have thought you'd need ambidexterity though?
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Mar 19 2005, 02:24 PM
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#10
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
Ambidexterity at an appropriate level will give you 1.5skill for the attack. More properly skill +half of hand skill and being ambidextrous you use your primary skill as your off hand skill. Edward |
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Mar 20 2005, 01:33 AM
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#11
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Target Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 14-January 05 Member No.: 6,976 |
I don't have my books handy, but I'm pretty sure that when using force of will a reasonably powerful spirit will still have the upper hand. Very high powered guns, dikoted everything, and absurd melee skills will work in some instances. Ultimately however, the best ways to kill a spirit are with a magician, an adept with astral perception and killing hands, or another spirit.
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Mar 20 2005, 01:47 AM
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#12
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
The spirit can't affect you if you are physical and it is not. If it is physical, an adept with KHs can take it down (especially if he is a melee adept).
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Mar 20 2005, 05:11 AM
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#13
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Also note that dual natured critters, such as ghouls, shifters and the royally screwed Changelings, can beat the spirit down with any normal unarmed skill since they are sharing astral space and the immunity only works on the physical plane.
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Mar 20 2005, 02:54 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
While true, that still doesn't makes taking on a fire elemental in hand to hand any more fun.
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Mar 20 2005, 03:02 PM
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#15
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
OK, Distance Strike too then.
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Mar 20 2005, 03:05 PM
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#16
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That's one Power I would love to see disappear in SR4. |
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Mar 21 2005, 06:52 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 424 Joined: 11-May 02 From: Marauding the mighty North Saskatchewan Member No.: 2,720 |
Any particular reason why?
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Mar 21 2005, 08:20 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 11-September 04 From: French Runner Member No.: 6,652 |
Using force of will is an option but remember it's a melee attack, so the spirit gets to counterattack with its reaction plus any remaining Combat Pool dice...
Of course, if it gets hit, it can only resist damage with its Force without any Pool die.... Tough , depending on the kind of spirit...a viable option for someone with high Willpower agaisnt Earth Elementals and Spirits of the Lands, but a tactic I wouldn't advise against a Fire Elemental or an Air Elemental... |
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Mar 21 2005, 10:49 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 556 Joined: 28-May 04 From: Moorhead, MN, USA Member No.: 6,367 |
I'd love to see that and any other power that isn't entirely internal to the adept removed. Isn't the whole point of an adept that he or she has turned the magic completely internal? That's why there's no signature when they use their powers. |
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Mar 21 2005, 11:39 PM
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#20
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
I'd like to see it gone just for the fact that it allows an Adept to go "Bang!" without a gun. (Distance attacks without a distance weapon. Spells are a different thing altogether.)
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Mar 22 2005, 01:48 AM
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#21
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I agree with the reasoning of both of the previous posters, although my main reason is that of Da9iel, in that Adept Powers (in my opinion) should basically be internalized.
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Mar 22 2005, 08:49 AM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
Ah for the days when spirits were immune to guns, but anyone with the 'nads to step up and duke it out with them hand to hand could bitchslap them back to the Astral.
EDIT: And yeah, Distance Strike is just so, so... Streetfighter. RYOUKEN! Blech. |
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