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#1
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 2-April 03 From: PHX Member No.: 4,367 ![]() |
I'm struggling to rationalize the yacht prices in SR4. How big would the Sea Nymph be? in RL Yachts are considerably more expensive. Is this actually a sailboat?
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#2
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ghostrider ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 ![]() |
Funny, I would think that 17000 would buy you a canoe and one oar.
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#3
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Validating Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 ![]() |
Reading the watercraft section on p.341 and looking at the table in the next one, I'm inclined to believe there's a missing zero. That'd make sense.
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#4
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 4-August 02 Member No.: 3,064 ![]() |
I recommend posting this to the SR4 Errata thread.
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#5
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 17-April 05 Member No.: 7,341 ![]() |
If you are using 1nuyen = 1 euro (or US$), your 17,000.00 nuyen yacht will be one meter long. The price of a yacht is generally 1 meter per 15,000.00 euros. If your yacht is in fact 170,000.00 nuyens, it would be 10 meters long...
So two solutions: or the price of yacht have incredibly decreased in 65 years... Or it's not a yacht but a 10 meters sailboat... |
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#6
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 ![]() |
Or by Yacht they mean luxury fishing boat...
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#7
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 ![]() |
Here's a posting for a 10 years old 40' Hatteras. He's asking 284,500 USD for it. It looks like the older (20-30 years old) and crappier boats in the same size class are going for ~150,000 USD with the newer ones going for ~ 350,000 USD.
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#8
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 ![]() |
Here is what could be considered a Yacht for 12,000. It's not what I would consider a yacht, but for ease of game mechanics it's better than having an "oversized large lake fishing boat with it's own bedroom" category... Yacht works much better.
http://www.iboats.com/sites/innerharbormar...um_index_1.html |
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#9
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 ![]() |
Ya, me to. As for it being a "yacht", notice that it's Body is 18. The same as a twin-prop plane and less than a Banshee T-Bird. It won't be showing up an a Richard Leech special any time soon. |
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#10
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 ![]() |
Some google-fu says that the C-12 twin engine prop plane has a max takeoff weight of ~15000 pounds
Some rought numbers for boat displacement seem to be: 30' boat ~ 8000 -15000 pounds 40' boat ~15000 - 30000 pounds 50' boat ~30,000+ pounds |
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#11
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 ![]() |
Ya, a 12m boat. Nothing spectacular.....but certainly not something that costs the same as a brand new Mercury Comet w/Rigger Box.
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#12
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 ![]() |
Erm, those 12 meter boats seem to go for a cool quarter mil+ when new.
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#13
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 ![]() |
Ya well we know the price is off. :P Maybe only an 8m then? *shrug* Or completely bare hull without the toys (kitchen/furnishings/fittings/etc.). |
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#14
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 ![]() |
Did you guys look at http://www.iboats.com/sites/innerharbormar...um_index_1.html ?
That's a "yacht" that's within the SR4 price at only 12k. |
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#15
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 ![]() |
20 years old and i believe you might call that a 'cabin cruiser'. EDIT: Perhaps that is what the authors were thinking about? A cabin cruiser? Still seems kinda small for an 18 Body (which in the past wasn't just a matter of weight, hard to say ). But their description sounds more like they are talking about a 1,700,000 boat. |
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#16
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 ![]() |
The boat is more than 20 years old...
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#17
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 ![]() |
Sure, but it's still well within the "yacht" category still IMHO. At least for game mechanics purposes.
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#18
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 ![]() |
I wouldn't say that thing is oozing "style", and "opulent" in comparison to what? The broom closet at the back of 7-11? ;) |
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#19
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 ![]() |
Maybe the opulent part is the errata? I just don't like assuming it's wrong because the price doens't match your definition of what a yacht costs.
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#20
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 ![]() |
It is much easier to drop a zero than add in the word oppulent, therefore it would see that the error likely occured in the pricing. Where you want to make the adjustment is entirely up to you. P.S. Speaking of prices the Limo price seems kinda off too, but i assume that has been brought up before? |
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#21
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 ![]() |
Here's a listing for a Porche 911 for 17K USD. And it's definitely a sports car... That means, brand new it's going to cost, what, may be twice that? :rotfl:
Of course, in a world where 'heavy' utility choppers can be had for only 500K or so, I guess anything is possible. (A Sikorsky S-70A seems to go for around 10-12 million) |
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#22
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 ![]() |
Well, at least they got rid of the 12 pound cel phone...:D
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#23
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panda! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 ![]() |
dont forget to add availability markup (if its still around) to the final cost.
im guessing that the list price given for any item is the one that you get if you take the time to shop around and look for good bargains. |
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#24
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 ![]() |
Heavy is good, heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work you can always hit them with it.
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#25
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 24-August 05 Member No.: 7,608 ![]() |
As it is listend in Rigger 3 it is a Yacht. The Sea Nymph is a "similar modell"(?) of the Harland & Wolff Classique - see Rigger 3.01D p. 175. Unfortunaltely I don't know the page of the english version.
So it seems like they forgot a zero. |
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#26
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 ![]() |
So, have we reached consensus yet? They dropped a zero.
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#27
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 ![]() |
I'm going to treat it as a real nice cabin cruiser personally. The Otter seems to be your generic fishing boat and for 5k more you can get the Nymph, which would seem to be roughly a nice cabin cruiser.
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#28
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Immoral Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 ![]() |
I'll be expecting an extra '0' in some upcoming Errata.
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#29
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 ![]() |
It's pretty clear that this is a sail boat. There are a number of nice 20' sailboats available in the 15-20k price range. |
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#30
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 91 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Bunker Gate 7 [CaTCo Compound] Member No.: 4,248 ![]() |
I think that's because they had major breakthrough in luxury vehicle tech between 2060-2070 , so they can cut their price dramatically... Look, the Mitsubshi Nightsky cost only 20 000 ¥ .... :rotfl:
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#31
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,595 ![]() |
Cool! I beg everyone not to tell my GM, Iam planning to buy a whole BUNCH of them...
and than, later, prolly a half year from now I spring him with the Errata and tell him, I'll sell those Yachts for, ok, say 20% List price ^^ Hotmon, I'll be stinkin Rich! [EDIT] Bummer, he reads the board regularly :([/EDIT] Ah, anyway, would be nice to have such stuff at chargen, but well, if you wanna have one, I guess most GM would allow it anyway. Expect to get it blown to pieces real soon, real fast though ;) Regards Daniel |
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#32
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 143 Joined: 28-August 05 Member No.: 7,631 ![]() |
In Rigger 3, the Harland & Wolff Classique (which listed the Sea Nymph as a "similar model") retailed for 207,500 :nuyen:.
I'd say we're looking at a typo here. Boats don't generally drop in price 90% in six years. |
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#33
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 ![]() |
uh yes they do look at the prices for wried flexes dropped 80%
prices for stuff has dropped dramatically across the board and i haven't seen where yachts now give you 90% off lifestyle costs... therefore the old price is no longer justified from a game balance perspective |
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#34
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Cal "not-so-free" State Member No.: 844 ![]() |
I think yer all wrong. I think that's the correct price, 17,000 :nuyen: and it's only a meter long. But the AR installed is excellent as it gives the impression that it's 12m complete with bar, swimming pool and boat bunnies. The high body and armor takes into account that it has a 12 inch solid steel hull and the speed listed is the AR speed. At first I was confused as to why they'd name a 1 meter steel box "nymph" but then realized that their target demographic was male, 18-30, steel boxes. All this makes greater sense when you realize that it's a yacht, and that the word yacht is a variant on an old Finnish word, "yauk'het," which translates (roughly) to, "strong box who watches ocean with open lid."
Of course, in my game, I'll house rule it so that it's 170,000 :nuyen: , change the length to 10m or so, and take out the whole AR and steel hull thing. But I'm not playing with any steel boxes who might cry that I'm a bigot and a boxist. |
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#35
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 4-August 02 Member No.: 3,064 ![]() |
I've added this to the Errata thread.
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#36
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 ![]() |
I don't remember the specifics, but there was a previous product that had a jet-ski type watercraft that was too expensive by a factor of ten. Apparently, the final zero on this yacht's price was sucked into the past by a spacetime vortex and ended up there.
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#37
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 ![]() |
As a footnote I talked to the DM and we're ruling it a nice cabin cruiser good enough for a person (or two if they share a bed) to live in. Thus I'm buying one and living in it instead of having an apartment.
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#38
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 17-April 05 Member No.: 7,341 ![]() |
Honnestly, this is the price only for the yacht... then you should subscribe marine services, that are in fact :
- Registration of the yacht in a jurisdiction - Licences for the radio - And of course, a place on the pier... which is damned expensive, and I know many harbour where you cannot get a place for at least the next 4-5 years... In the end, if the price of a yacht (I cannot use this word for "that", sorry)... haem, so if the price of the boat can be quiet high, it is also really expensive in yearly expenses... |
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#39
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 ![]() |
That's why I have a high lifestyle. That covers rental. Also I have a contact who's the harbormaster, he keeps my boat off the records.
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#40
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Bushido Cowgirl ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 ![]() |
I'd agree, 17K will maybe get you a 3.5 metre runabout or low end ski boat (outboard).
In even looking at used yachts, a 30+ year old 70ft Bertham Avenger (classic type motor yacht representative of what a high end corp exec would have) will run you about 250 - 300K today's economy depending on condition and cabin appointments. New? Get ready to pony up at least 3 million or more for a comparable vessel to the one above, 8 digits for anything beyond a 100 ft Keel that is also rigged for high seas ops. Mates, I think they dropped at least one zero on that price |
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