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fastdos
I'm struggling to rationalize the yacht prices in SR4. How big would the Sea Nymph be? in RL Yachts are considerably more expensive. Is this actually a sailboat?
eidolon
Funny, I would think that 17000 would buy you a canoe and one oar.
JongWK
Reading the watercraft section on p.341 and looking at the table in the next one, I'm inclined to believe there's a missing zero. That'd make sense.
sapphire_wyvern
I recommend posting this to the SR4 Errata thread.
chevalier_neon
If you are using 1nuyen = 1 euro (or US$), your 17,000.00 nuyen yacht will be one meter long. The price of a yacht is generally 1 meter per 15,000.00 euros. If your yacht is in fact 170,000.00 nuyens, it would be 10 meters long...
So two solutions: or the price of yacht have incredibly decreased in 65 years... Or it's not a yacht but a 10 meters sailboat...
Lord Ben
Or by Yacht they mean luxury fishing boat...
Crusher Bob
Here's a posting for a 10 years old 40' Hatteras. He's asking 284,500 USD for it. It looks like the older (20-30 years old) and crappier boats in the same size class are going for ~150,000 USD with the newer ones going for ~ 350,000 USD.
Lord Ben
Here is what could be considered a Yacht for 12,000. It's not what I would consider a yacht, but for ease of game mechanics it's better than having an "oversized large lake fishing boat with it's own bedroom" category... Yacht works much better.

http://www.iboats.com/sites/innerharbormar...um_index_1.html
blakkie
QUOTE (JongWK)
Reading the watercraft section on p.341 and looking at the table in the next one, I'm inclined to believe there's a missing zero. That'd make sense.

Ya, me to. As for it being a "yacht", notice that it's Body is 18. The same as a twin-prop plane and less than a Banshee T-Bird. It won't be showing up an a Richard Leech special any time soon.
Crusher Bob
Some google-fu says that the C-12 twin engine prop plane has a max takeoff weight of ~15000 pounds

Some rought numbers for boat displacement seem to be:
30' boat ~ 8000 -15000 pounds
40' boat ~15000 - 30000 pounds
50' boat ~30,000+ pounds
blakkie
Ya, a 12m boat. Nothing spectacular.....but certainly not something that costs the same as a brand new Mercury Comet w/Rigger Box.
Crusher Bob
Erm, those 12 meter boats seem to go for a cool quarter mil+ when new.
blakkie
QUOTE (Crusher Bob)
Erm, those 12 meter boats seem to go for a cool quarter mil+ when new.

Ya well we know the price is off. nyahnyah.gif Maybe only an 8m then? *shrug* Or completely bare hull without the toys (kitchen/furnishings/fittings/etc.).
Lord Ben
Did you guys look at http://www.iboats.com/sites/innerharbormar...um_index_1.html ?

That's a "yacht" that's within the SR4 price at only 12k.
blakkie
QUOTE (Lord Ben @ Sep 20 2005, 08:47 AM)
Did you guys look at http://www.iboats.com/sites/innerharbormar...um_index_1.html ?

That's a "yacht" that's within the SR4 price at only 12k.

20 years old and i believe you might call that a 'cabin cruiser'.

EDIT: Perhaps that is what the authors were thinking about? A cabin cruiser? Still seems kinda small for an 18 Body (which in the past wasn't just a matter of weight, hard to say ). But their description sounds more like they are talking about a 1,700,000 boat.
Crusher Bob
The boat is more than 20 years old...
Lord Ben
Sure, but it's still well within the "yacht" category still IMHO. At least for game mechanics purposes.
blakkie
QUOTE (Lord Ben)
Sure, but it's still well within the "yacht" category still IMHO. At least for game mechanics purposes.

QUOTE
Marine Tech Sea Nymph: An opulent luxury yacht for those who like to sail in style.


I wouldn't say that thing is oozing "style", and "opulent" in comparison to what? The broom closet at the back of 7-11? wink.gif
Lord Ben
Maybe the opulent part is the errata? I just don't like assuming it's wrong because the price doens't match your definition of what a yacht costs.
blakkie
QUOTE (Lord Ben @ Sep 20 2005, 09:03 AM)
Maybe the opulent part is the errata?  I just don't like assuming it's wrong because the price doens't match your definition of what a yacht costs.

QUOTE
yacht
n : an expensive vessel propelled by sail or power and used for cruising or racing [syn: racing yacht] v : travel in a yacht


It is much easier to drop a zero than add in the word oppulent, therefore it would see that the error likely occured in the pricing. Where you want to make the adjustment is entirely up to you.

P.S. Speaking of prices the Limo price seems kinda off too, but i assume that has been brought up before?
Crusher Bob
Here's a listing for a Porche 911 for 17K USD. And it's definitely a sports car... That means, brand new it's going to cost, what, may be twice that? rotfl.gif

Of course, in a world where 'heavy' utility choppers can be had for only 500K or so, I guess anything is possible. (A Sikorsky S-70A seems to go for around 10-12 million)
Jrayjoker
Well, at least they got rid of the 12 pound cel phone...biggrin.gif
hobgoblin
dont forget to add availability markup (if its still around) to the final cost.

im guessing that the list price given for any item is the one that you get if you take the time to shop around and look for good bargains.
Crusher Bob
Heavy is good, heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work you can always hit them with it.
walkir
As it is listend in Rigger 3 it is a Yacht. The Sea Nymph is a "similar modell"(?) of the Harland & Wolff Classique - see Rigger 3.01D p. 175. Unfortunaltely I don't know the page of the english version.

So it seems like they forgot a zero.
Jrayjoker
So, have we reached consensus yet? They dropped a zero.
Lord Ben
I'm going to treat it as a real nice cabin cruiser personally. The Otter seems to be your generic fishing boat and for 5k more you can get the Nymph, which would seem to be roughly a nice cabin cruiser.
Fortune
I'll be expecting an extra '0' in some upcoming Errata.
Chandon
QUOTE (Lord Ben)
I'm going to treat it as a real nice cabin cruiser personally. The Otter seems to be your generic fishing boat and for 5k more you can get the Nymph, which would seem to be roughly a nice cabin cruiser.

It's pretty clear that this is a sail boat. There are a number of nice 20' sailboats available in the 15-20k price range.
Homme-qui-rigole
I think that's because they had major breakthrough in luxury vehicle tech between 2060-2070 , so they can cut their price dramatically... Look, the Mitsubshi Nightsky cost only 20 000 .... rotfl.gif
Steadfast
Cool! I beg everyone not to tell my GM, Iam planning to buy a whole BUNCH of them...

and than, later, prolly a half year from now I spring him with the Errata and tell him, I'll sell those Yachts for, ok, say 20% List price ^^

Hotmon, I'll be stinkin Rich!
[EDIT] Bummer, he reads the board regularly frown.gif[/EDIT]

Ah, anyway, would be nice to have such stuff at chargen, but well, if you wanna have one, I guess most GM would allow it anyway. Expect to get it blown to pieces real soon, real fast though wink.gif

Regards
Daniel

TheNarrator
In Rigger 3, the Harland & Wolff Classique (which listed the Sea Nymph as a "similar model") retailed for 207,500 nuyen.gif.

I'd say we're looking at a typo here. Boats don't generally drop in price 90% in six years.
Kremlin KOA
uh yes they do look at the prices for wried flexes dropped 80%
prices for stuff has dropped dramatically across the board and i haven't seen where yachts now give you 90% off lifestyle costs... therefore the old price is no longer justified from a game balance perspective
Fizzygoo
I think yer all wrong. I think that's the correct price, 17,000 nuyen.gif and it's only a meter long. But the AR installed is excellent as it gives the impression that it's 12m complete with bar, swimming pool and boat bunnies. The high body and armor takes into account that it has a 12 inch solid steel hull and the speed listed is the AR speed. At first I was confused as to why they'd name a 1 meter steel box "nymph" but then realized that their target demographic was male, 18-30, steel boxes. All this makes greater sense when you realize that it's a yacht, and that the word yacht is a variant on an old Finnish word, "yauk'het," which translates (roughly) to, "strong box who watches ocean with open lid."

Of course, in my game, I'll house rule it so that it's 170,000 nuyen.gif , change the length to 10m or so, and take out the whole AR and steel hull thing. But I'm not playing with any steel boxes who might cry that I'm a bigot and a boxist.
sapphire_wyvern
I've added this to the Errata thread.
RunnerPaul
I don't remember the specifics, but there was a previous product that had a jet-ski type watercraft that was too expensive by a factor of ten. Apparently, the final zero on this yacht's price was sucked into the past by a spacetime vortex and ended up there.
Lord Ben
As a footnote I talked to the DM and we're ruling it a nice cabin cruiser good enough for a person (or two if they share a bed) to live in. Thus I'm buying one and living in it instead of having an apartment.
chevalier_neon
Honnestly, this is the price only for the yacht... then you should subscribe marine services, that are in fact :
- Registration of the yacht in a jurisdiction
- Licences for the radio
- And of course, a place on the pier... which is damned expensive, and I know many harbour where you cannot get a place for at least the next 4-5 years...

In the end, if the price of a yacht (I cannot use this word for "that", sorry)... haem, so if the price of the boat can be quiet high, it is also really expensive in yearly expenses...
Lord Ben
That's why I have a high lifestyle. That covers rental. Also I have a contact who's the harbormaster, he keeps my boat off the records.
Kyoto Kid
I'd agree, 17K will maybe get you a 3.5 metre runabout or low end ski boat (outboard).

In even looking at used yachts, a 30+ year old 70ft Bertham Avenger (classic type motor yacht representative of what a high end corp exec would have) will run you about 250 - 300K today's economy depending on condition and cabin appointments.

New? Get ready to pony up at least 3 million or more for a comparable vessel to the one above, 8 digits for anything beyond a 100 ft Keel that is also rigged for high seas ops.

Mates, I think they dropped at least one zero on that price
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