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[cristomeyers]

My runners managed to pick up a PAC during another GMs game (he's now one of the players. we know each other's work well enough that making new characters would've been more trouble than it was worth). They've had their fun with it, but it's starting to disrupt the game balance. The gangers they're up against now can't even begin to stand up to it.

So the question is, how do I nerf it? I've been waiting for a critical failure, but none is forthcoming. What are some other ways I could nerf the thing in the two days the runners have before the meet for payment and the next plot point?

[Austere Emancipa...]

Make everybody either scream and run away in terror or open fire at them the instant anybody notices it -- and it's not like a 1.5-meter, 20kg metal contraption is hard to miss. Everybody in a half-mile radius will hear when it's fired, and law enforcement from all over the area will arrive ASAP with SWAT and all.

Man-portable weapons capable of causing destruction far greater than the PAC in SR4 exist in real life, but you hardly ever see them, at least outside of warzones. Not just because they're extremely difficult to get at, but also because they're largely useless outside of an actual warzone.

[Butterblume]

You could make ammo scarce, so they'll only use the PAC when they think they have too.

Of course, this only works if they haven't hoarded ammunition yet.

[Homme-qui-rigole]

Easy!

Next time they use the Panther in the street, make a Lone Star Swat team appears to neutralize the runners.

Also, you can "control" the use of the Assault Cannon by making the AC ammo difficult to obtain. availibility for Assault Cannon is 16F, so you can crank up the price and Avail with hefty modifier because it's classified Forbidden. Next, you can force the runners to track down ammo boxes one by one, wich will consume big time ressource. With that, the runners will think twice about it before shooting ganger wannabe and instead keep the ammo's for big stuff and really important matter.

P.S. a fireball against a Assault Cannon ammo box is so funny! :vegm:

[Konsaki]

Austere hit the fix right on the head.
Just make the shadowrunners have to go through a random security checkpoint that the Star set up for drunk drivers. Once the Star does a quick Cyberware Scan and Chem Sniffer test, they will have ? and ! sticking up over their heads as they radio in for backup that instant.

[cristomeyers]

Thanks guys. The only reason Lone Star hasn't come down on them like a pack of hammers was because they don't really have any sway in the neighborhood where it was being used. Of course, now that there's been reports of a team with full body armor (already nerfed) and a PAC running amok in the Humanis' "nice neighborhood", things could get really interesting.

I'm thinking a fireball to the ammo box or thereabouts is going to be the way to go, though I'll probably use a grenade or a lucky shot. The holder of the cannon and his compatriot need to be taught a lesson before the GMPC they keep tormenting sets them on fire with an ignite spell.

Guess that leads me to my next question (better than cluttering with another thread). How much is too much when warning runners in-game? Here's the thing, these two runners (out of a group of around 7) have been making some real bad decisions (like, shooting innocents) and noteriety points just won't do it.

Right now, the GMPC that I've been using to help steer the characters when it's needed these two have been tormenting. Out of game, I know it's in good fun and I'm not entirely sure he actually means his character is doing it. In game, he's aggravating a young woman, a spirit hunter mage, that has PTSD from being gang raped. And I have left clues as too her condition (she recoils when touched, freaked out when she woke up to their Ork shaman using a Heal spell for wounds to her chest, etc).

Her reaction would be to set the idiot on fire (only reason she didn't set the Ork on fire was she was wounded). But I don't feel right doing that for A) something they don't know and B)playing his character. Other players have agreed that these two need to be taught a little lesson and one is actually hoping I set the guy on fire.

[RunnerPaul]

[Konsaki]

Random LoneStar Sniper misses and doesnt headshot the wielder but destroys an integral part of the PAC, disabling it for all intensive purposes. Make the repair TN pretty high, so if any of them have the Armorer skill, they cant do an 'on the spot' fix.

[Ophis]

Have a Wombrick (or other large stupid para-animal) escape from the zoo and eat the cannon.

[lorechaser]

[Blog]

"So some new kids on the street got some fancy weapon? That would be great for our gang! lets hunt'm down boys!"

Its an illegal weapon that is hard to obtain, if the money/motive is right someone might come looking to 'borrow' it.

[Mistwalker]

Easy
Next time they torment her, have her cast fireball, but at the last second target it near them, rather than kill them.
Happen to have the fireball hit the PAC and it's ammo.
Have her tear a strip off of the two, but ready to either run or light them on fire.

Both problems handled with one action.

[Konsaki]

[mfb]

maybe he meant that the PAC would still be useful in low-pressure situations?

this is the sort of thing that, as a GM, you really want to plan ahead for. i know you weren't responsible for giving them the PAC in the first place. however, when you first took the GM reigns, it would've been wise to start thinking about how to get rid of (or nerf) the PAC and other high-powered items, if necessary.

the solution i'd go with, since it requires no preparation and little explanation, is to simply state that the ammunition for it is no longer commonly available. market conditions, or whatever. you don't even have to cut them off completely--just sharply limit how much they can acquire at one time.

of course, smart runners could find a use for even an empty PAC. some quick work can make it look loaded; that'd be worth a nice bonus to intimidation and certain negotiations.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[lorechaser]

[cetiah]

Three alternatives to nerfing:

1. Have someone on the street (maybe through an illegal matrix ad) want to buy the panther cannon. It doesn't cost all that much, and if you offer enough nuyen to install some new cybergear, bioware, or magical doohickey, it might just be worth it for the player. Make it clear that they won't be able to just get another one to replace it. Allow them to negotiate for a higher price, or for favors. Give them a new contact out of the deal.

2. Explain to the players that it might not be appropriate for your next run without starting World War X in Seattle. They might not agree, but might become more responsive if you offer them Karma for not using it or for getting rid of it. You don't need a LOT of Karma, just one or two points for everyone in the group to build up the social tension. "Guys, we need to lose the panther cannon. It's not working out. During this next run, try to find some opportunity to let it go out with style, like it deserves. You'll all get an extra Karma point or two to mourn the loss of your partner's amazingly heroic sacrifice."

3. Put the player in a situation where he'll need an extra Edge point, and offer to instantly refresh his edge in exchange for the effects of a critical glitch. Hint that he may lose the panther cannon for the deal, but at least he'll survive the terrible fate he just stumbled into. Have the character narrate what he's doing with the edge point and if it sounds cool or self-sacrificing, award him a Karma point for his character's amazing brush with death.

[hyzmarca]

Well, certain Seatle neighborhoods are war zones and PACs aren't out of place there at all.

I see no reason to nerf the weapon when it would be far simpler to adjust the ganger's tactics so that the weapon would be of limited usefulness against them. (Gangers do have tactics). The proper use of cover, concealment, and stealth could allow a ganger to close to melee range where the cannon would be more useful as a club, for example.

[Charon]

A few zones in Seattle are as good as war zones. In these locations, walking around with assault rifle, heavy armor and one heavy weapon (I prefer the Heavy Machine gun on a gyromount to the assault, cannon, it's more powerful and useful).

But then, the same goes for the opposition. Even a small gang can scrape the money for one big gun between them all (Or just have acquired it by ambushing the previous gang of runner running around in their turf with big guns).

And beside, considering you are professional runners, I would expect the target to be tougher than a bunch of bums. Otherwise, why bother hiring you instead of less skilled and cheaper operators? So whoever your target are in this urban warzone, they should be able to exploit the same condition the runner are and use heavy ordinance and booby traps that can blow you into space.

I feel it's just fun once in a while to find an excuse to cut loose with the big weapons. It's a change of pace.

Obviously, 80-90% of runs take place in situations where it's impossible to bring in heavy weapons so I say just have fun with them when you can.

[Thane36425]

There is another option as well. Instead of Lone Star, have another team of runners learn of this team and its PAC and try to take it from them. Have that team be at least as good as your team and strike from ambush. Its underhanded, but you could have them raid one of the runner's homes and take them hostage to trade for the PAC. For that matter, one or more of the gangs might have hired the runners to get rid of the team that had been plaguing them and the gun is part of the payment.

What SR4 is missing is the legality chart of the previous versions. Merely getting caught with a PAC would probably bring down a fantastic fine and a couple of decades in prison. I don't have one of the books with such a chart in it to hand though.

[WhiskeyMac]

To NERF the PAC I would probably just have someone who is bigger and better want it and come try and get it. Having a group of "miscreants" running around armed like soldiers blasting away at things with a highly illegal weapon would bring down LS SWAT and Metroplex Guards on the scene very, very fast. There's no real reason, other than a merc campaign or a Barrens campaign, that these PCs should be wandering around with a PAC without being accousted on some instance. Think about that bank robbery in LA awhile ago with the guys dressed in heavy armor and blasting people with assault rifles. That is the reason that we now have cops walking around with SMGs, ARs and heavy bulletproof vests. Let the characters know that they don't live in a vaccuum and can do what ever they want because they have a big stick. Have somebody show up with 2 big sticks and teach them a lesson. They're making a bad name for shadowrunners everywhere and somebody is going to take offense.

On the griefing the GMPC, have her fuck them up. Fireball their ass back to oblivion. Let them know before hand and/or through the game that she has some mental problems. If they keep griefing her about it FUCK THEM UP. Unless they agree to stop messing with her then have her light them up.

[Charon]

[Kasheu]

one answer to solve all your PAC problems...... ball lightning

or just simply say what my GM has told the group im with..."whatever you use I can use too" sure its fun shooting a PAC but being shot at by one....not so fun lol

[The Jopp]

Have a noob mage put up a weak barrier right in front of the barrel.

Delayed action would allow the mage to cast it at the moment of firing. The shell would stop and detonate at the barrier and there would be a backwash.

[djinni]