 Cyberware Availability, How do the grades of 'ware change it? |
 Jan 16 2007, 10:07 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 4-December 06 From: ein Loch in der Wand Member No.: 10,192  |
How do the various grades of cyberware affect the availibility of said 'ware? for example, if someone were to purchase an Alphaware Wired Reflexes 2, would it still have an availability of 12, or would it be higher?
Sorry if this has been asked before, i did a search and came up with nothing. |
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Jan 16 2007, 10:13 PM
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#2
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
See, the problem is you're looking in the wrong place. The answer is in Augmentation. (AFAIK there is no other official answer)
In the meantime, I'd say no change for Alphaware, +4 (or so, numbers coming out of my ass) for Betaware, and Deltaware is nigh impossible and you've got to know the right people. |
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Jan 16 2007, 10:14 PM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
Well, the price of the ware affects the timeframe per roll for avail, though it stops at 10,001.
You could always adjust it up by 3 per rank, with alpha being +3, Beta +6 and Delta +9. You just have to remember that your everyday street doc wont be able to install beta or delta since you have to go to a specialised clinic for those grade ware. Most players would have a hard time getting ANY Delta done without alot of favors pulled or a high difficulty mission with the gear and installation as a reward. |
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Jan 16 2007, 10:30 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 271 Joined: 18-April 06 Member No.: 8,481 |
You might also want to break the chains of 1990's SR3 thought, and imagine a world where, hey, high tech consumer goods are not ultra rare. They're sold in stores >.<
Seriously. Your $25,000 liquid nitrogen cooled quad processor mega computer is far far beyond the market standard. But do you have to sell your soul to a corporation to get one? No, you just have to have that much money to piss away, and patience if the people who make them have a backlog and it will take them a while to fill your order. But they're not going to refuse to sell it to you if you fail your nearly impossible etiquette roll... They have goods, you have money, you order goods and pay money, they provide goods. That's how it works today - by what mechanic is cyber supposed to work, assuming avail goes up with grade? Suddenly, the upper level of perfectly legal consumer goods is hard to find? I understand that maybe it would take forever if you have to custom order from a company that has more orders than it can quickly fill. But... hello? Don't these people have a website? Can't any idiot in 2070 navigate the trix and locate someone who sells top grade cyber enhancements? I would say yes. It's time to stop thinking within the limits of SR3, which is seriously behind the times in its envisioning of the future. Now that inflation has been controlled and cyber can be purchased by ordinary people, we can get rid of the accompanying idea that higher grades are rarer. There is virtually no analogue to that situation in consumer electronics - all I can think of are collector's items, one of a kind deals owned by celebrities. Other than that, they're freely available, if you can afford them. And as for deltaware being nigh impossible to obtain - I'm pretty sure they eliminated any reference to that in SR4, so we should probably assume that it's gone. Why even have rules for deltaware in the main book of PC's can't have it? If it's as impossible to get (or more) than a tank, or an aircraft carrier, neither of which have rules in the main book, why is it included? I believe that deltaware is included in the main book, with no lip service paid to it being next to impossible to obtain because that part of the theme was silly and has been obliterated along with many of the other backwards peculiarities of SR3. |
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Jan 16 2007, 10:32 PM
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#5
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Availability only applies to black market purchases. If you're willing to withstand the background checks and registering your product then you just walk into a store and buy it, same applies to cyberware. That's always been the case.
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Jan 16 2007, 10:37 PM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
ixzombie, you have to remember that alot of the 'good' ware has R and F tags. Note that your average runner doesnt want to mess with the R because it leaves a paper trail on their SIN, which is just another couple thousand but it's extra work to obtain a new one.
The F label is FORBIDDEN, which basicly means 'No way in hell'. You HAVE to get these through the black market. Note that only items bought through the black market uses the Availablilty, unless you have an evil GM. Legal stuff can just be assumed to be found at a legal store with no problem. Hell, Restricted stuff is just the same, you just need to submit for a license through legal channels. (Read : Time + Money for offical crap) Edit: Curse you Moon-Hawk for posting something shorter quicker. :P |
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Jan 17 2007, 01:04 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 271 Joined: 18-April 06 Member No.: 8,481 |
SR3 requires availability rolls for everything, legal or not. Only SI is forgiven for legal purchases. The only things that you can always get in SR3 are things with avail of "always." In SR3, even an optical memory chip (i.e. a DVD-R) requires a roll to find... At least, that's always how it was when I played. The rules are definitely a bit murky on that account, but that's at least one valid interpretation. Crazy, but valid...
Anyway, even ignoring my ranting about SR3, if the SR4 book doesn't make higher grades harder to find, why mess with it? It's not enough to multiply the price? I don't exactly sweat as a GM, wondering how I'll keep my game fun when my players rack up a few mil, upgrade to delta, cram in more ware, and become monsters, as if that will ever happen in the lifetime of any campaign... The cost is prohibitive enough that you don't need to add yet another barrier to upgrading ware. Part of an RPG is the fun of improving your characters' stats and gear, of playing them as they grow. I don't see the point of putting the brakes on that process just because you did in SR3. And houseruling cyber availability would mean that sammies might not be able to get what they need, but mages can still initiate just by forking over the karma. So now, to keep it fair, you need to houserule initiation so that it takes longer... But you overshot, and initiation isn't worthwhile anymore, so you need to houserule to make it more powerful. But whoa! Spirits are too powerful under this new system, so you need to nerf them. But hey! Now sammies kill them too easily, so you need to buff their immunity to normal weapons... etc :sleepy: This is the trap of house rules - you usually can't stop at just one, and they usually don't make the game a whole lot better. It's fine as it is, unless, after playing, you discover that there really is some barrier to having fun. It's important to make those changes only after proving to your group that they're necessary though, not on speculation, or god forbid based on SR3 tradition. |
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Jan 17 2007, 01:07 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 8-June 05 From: Montréal, République du Québec Member No.: 7,433 |
Sounds like you need a new GM. :D |
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Jan 17 2007, 04:20 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 1-December 06 Member No.: 10,116 |
Nah he just needs a GM that doesnt stick ot the letter of the law of the rulebook. Because yeah. Theres alot of really 'common' crap that you need to make avail rolls for in SR. Stuff thats so basic you sort of wonder about it. SR4 does away with alot of that. And keep in mind in SR3 Alphaware you could suposedly buy out of your average legit cybershop. (Course the much higher avail sort of countered the fluff on that) By SR4 I'm sure you could legally obtain a good deal of betaware at a 'high end' legal clinic. Deltaware.. Well I still see that as mostly the realm of the big AAAs own little playground. On the flipside however there WAS a comparitively large increase in the number of delta clinics by 2070. And arguably at least one or two of em is 'publicly available'. And by 'publicly available' of course. We mean only to the ultra rich jet setters of the world public. The rest of you are too poor to dare set foot within the sanctified walls of yonder Delta Clinic. Now out you bum and here's 10 :nuyen: for your trouble. Go get some soup. |
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Jan 17 2007, 05:57 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 8-June 05 From: Montréal, République du Québec Member No.: 7,433 |
Legally obtain. Legally. Think about it. |
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Jan 17 2007, 02:09 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Anyone ever gone for deltaware datajack's or internal air tanks. Just so you can say you've got deltaware instailed?
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Jan 17 2007, 02:29 PM
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#12
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
If you have access to a Deltaware Clinic (Back in '60, I think that there ere only five of 'em?), you'd better hock everything you can, take out loans, and beg, borrow, or steal to get as many upgrades as you can, because it's durn near impossible to get an appointment. If you get in and only get a Datajack, I think that they implant a cortex bomb as well, just for being a yutz. :) |
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Jan 17 2007, 02:35 PM
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#13
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
Why bother with the datajack at all? You can just go around telling people that your state-of-the-art cortex bomb is deltaware, baby.
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Jan 17 2007, 02:39 PM
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#14
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Yep. High-rated fake IDs are good for things like that. |
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Jan 17 2007, 03:28 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 8-June 05 From: Montréal, République du Québec Member No.: 7,433 |
Something the average runner won't be getting his paws on for a long while, if ever. |
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Jan 17 2007, 03:37 PM
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#16
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
A rank 4 SIN, which you can get at chargen, could get you 'legal' ware with no problems, from 'legal' clinics.
Restricted is getting a little iffy with that rank of SIN though, since you have to get a legit license though the city offices to legally install that ware. |
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Jan 17 2007, 03:40 PM
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#17
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Maybe in your games, but it's usually one (or more) of my characters' first purchases in-game. |
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Jan 17 2007, 03:42 PM
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#18
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Which is also available at chargen up to rating of 4. |
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Jan 17 2007, 03:47 PM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
I'm talking about getting a R rated ware totally legit, no fake anything accept for your SIN. You would have a legal official license for your ware on your Fake SIN, so no needing to spend that extra cash for the Fake License. This is taking into account that this is in game and not CharGen. At CharGen, unless your character took the 'SINner' quality, you would need Fake SIN and License for everything that was R rated, that is unless you dont care that the Star might arrest/fine your character for having illegal stuffs due to not having the proper licenses. |
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Jan 17 2007, 03:51 PM
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#20
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Why are you differentiating between the two? A fake permit (whether attached to a real or fake SIN) will be just as useful in getting the stuff implanted as a real license (as long as it holds up under scrutiny). |
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Jan 17 2007, 03:54 PM
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#21
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
For another option other than, "You HAVE to get a Fake License for that gear."
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Jan 17 2007, 09:50 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 271 Joined: 18-April 06 Member No.: 8,481 |
I think SR3 has been out too long (it's been over a decade, right?) People just can't get the "only five delta clinics" idea out of their heads... What's wrong with putting delta on a more realistic level? Like, say, PC is to supercomputer as standard ware is to deltaware? The only real difference is a large gulf in price. Though supercomputers are generally reserved for corporations with lots of cash who need them for industrial applications, they're not going to put a trojan on your supercomputer just because you're a regular person with enough money to buy one. You have money, they have goods, you exchange money for goods... What's the disconnect here? In SR3, deltaware was basically experimental technology. Stuff that can only be made by five secret clinics in the world is not "top end," it is beyond that. The theme in SR3 was such that if your GM ever let a character have deltaware, he was taking gross and uncalled for liberties with canon. Delaware was, like so much of the sourcebook material in SR3, something to help fill up pages of endless rules, not something you'd ever expect to see in a campaign. But in SR4, that's gone, it's dead. Deltaware is just the highest grade of available cyberware. If you have a burning need for unattainable ware, introduce some novahot experimental lambdaware or something into your game. Don't preserve outdated theme that ends up being more of a barrier to player advancement than a boost to gameplay. |
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Jan 17 2007, 10:17 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
In my games, grades (and cyberware in general) have less to do with the hardware and more to do with the surgery. Alpha, beta, and deltaware takes special hardware, sure, but the reason it is less invasive and more expensive is because of the skill of the surgeon and the equipment he uses to install it. As such, I don't increase the availability number for higher grades. The PCs have to know the right people. In other words they have to roleplay to get it, and probably take on a special mission.
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Jan 17 2007, 10:41 PM
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#24
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
ixombie, you have to remember that the availablities and 'quality' of beta and deltaware is dependant on the GM running the game. One persons bottle of water (Deltaware) could be another's holy grail (Deltaware). Examples of how easy or hard delta could be to get.
Just cause in your game it's just another grade doesnt mean in another game a Sam would sell his mother to get just one delta grade ware. |
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Jan 17 2007, 11:01 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando Member No.: 815 |
Is there or is there not any canonical reference to Alpha, Beta, or Delta grade cyber/bio ware being any harder to obtain than normal versions of the same? Especially for legal or merely restricted goods? I can't recall any offhand, just countless pages of SR2and 3 references. I don't think it's so hard to find anymore. Which kind of makes sense. Now how a runner scrounges up the millions of nuyen to purchase said deltaware is another tale of unbelievability. SR4 is constantly pulling this kind of shit with me though. I still think mages can ground through my foci too. Apparently this method was lost around 2057 though. :sleepy:
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