 Eye covers., How obvious are they? |
 May 1 2007, 12:37 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 2-January 04 From: California Protectorate Member No.: 5,949  |
Eye covers, as described on page 332 of the SR4 book, are fairly simple. They cover your eyes, giving +2 points of armor on them. Not a bad choice, to be sure.
That said, how obvious are they? Can they be retractable? Can they go under the eyelids, or do they cover the entire ocular cavity, like a pair of glasses? This has come up because I have a player who wants to have dead black eye covers that cover the whole eye, and are not removable. (This was inspired by Neuromancer.) I don't think it's an immediate problem, but it seems to me that, in the long run, they would become a pretty easy way to identify him. Somehow, I can't imagine runners wanting something that obvious on themselves that they can't remove. Am I just overdoing it? |
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May 1 2007, 12:44 AM
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#2
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Although I could be mistaken, my understanding is that at the very least they can't be removed easily and are very much noticable...
*Edit* Also if he just wants to have some funky looking Cybereyes, well that comes with the package and if I remember correctly you can even download new images to display... |
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May 1 2007, 01:25 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789 |
I always thought they were kind of like contacts in that they just covered the eye under the eyelid. Never really goes into what it covers or how it looks. I guess you could make them removable for double the price.
Another question: Can protective covers get vision modifications implanted in them? |
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May 1 2007, 01:29 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
No their just transparent armor covers for cybereyes. |
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May 1 2007, 01:55 AM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
My gm basically treats the base protective covers model as a common and inexpensive cosmod (which, frankly, is really about all they ever amount to, when it comes down to it), and therefore getting a more upscale mirrored pair of retractables is no more complicated a task than going out and bying any other simple to moderate cosmod. After all, if you can get animated nano-tats, than I don't see why you can't have a glorified pair of shades slide outta your face and over your eyeballs.
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May 1 2007, 02:42 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 351 Joined: 17-February 06 From: San Francisco Member No.: 8,275 |
Yeah, you can get cosmetic surgery to make you look like Satan, there's no reason that can't be combined with the protective eye covers.
Edit: It says in their description that they're available in one-way reflective, so that mod would be free. |
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May 1 2007, 03:11 AM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
I've always pictured them somewhat like frog eyelids.
And my group plays it where you can get vision mods installed in them, makes sense if you can get mods in contacts. |
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May 1 2007, 03:30 AM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
I worry about free stuff. I consider them non-removeable, and if you allow vision mods then I don't see the reason to ever have replacement eyes when you can just put these puppies on. I've always thought of them as something that was common enough in any shade you can think of as a style issue to make it a non/identifiable feature, and possibly even something disguiseable. |
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May 1 2007, 04:07 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 2-January 04 From: California Protectorate Member No.: 5,949 |
I dunno, I feel that ANY runner with something that obvious and non-removable is just plain asking for trouble. Runners aren't many, and I think having non-retractable eye covers is like having non-retractable rand razors, or non-retractable anything else: something that gangers have because it's cheaper. I think a shadowrunner can afford to make his gear less an obvious and non-removable part of his face. Cybereyes can be modified to look normal, but these shades stick out no matter how you slice it, unless you have them as retracting. |
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May 1 2007, 04:13 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789 |
They are 100 :nuyen: and have no availability which means they are as common as goggles, shades and rating 1 cybereyes. Not everyone has them but someone with them won't be looked at with "OMG WTF is that guy wearing" eyes. If a shadowrunner wore them, it would actually help them blend in better because they are so common place.
The BBB doesn't once state what or how the protective covers look. For all we know they just cover from the optical ridge to the top of the cheek bone. Or they are just glorified contacts that provide armor. We don't know. Maybe we should get one of the developers in here to enlighten us. |
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May 1 2007, 04:14 AM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
Can't they be clear?
And even if they aren't, I'm pretty sure seeing a dood with funny looking eyes in the shadowrun world is no real big deal. |
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May 1 2007, 04:24 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 30-December 06 Member No.: 10,493 |
They're the things Molly has over her eyes. They look like surgically implanted glasses, preferably mirror-finished. |
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May 1 2007, 04:24 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789 |
The fact that they can be transparent makes me think they are covers over the eyes and not optical ridge covers. If they were optical ridge covers then I could understand someone feeling weird when they see a guy with bubble eyes. Of course, with the downloadable skin feature for cybereyes, you can have someone with biohazard eyes that morph into flaming, laughing skulls when someone looks at them. So, weird eyes probably isnt that much of a problem in Shadowrun.
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May 1 2007, 04:31 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 2-January 04 From: California Protectorate Member No.: 5,949 |
See, some things are are common place might still be a bad idea for a runner to have, in my opinion. Like those unretractable spurs. Sure, they're hardly uncommon, especially among the lower types. That doesn't mean it doesn't mark you, however. I agree that no one would be freaked out by what he was wearing, but people might start identifying him by that particular piece of equipment. Again, if people start talking about that runner with the 'spurs, you narrow things down quite a bit. However, at this point, I'm not even sure they're NOT removable. After all, they don't cost essence.... And while a "dood with funny eyes" isn't a big deal in the shadow world, it IS distinctive. Hell, there's a flaw for that. I'm just worried he's basically getting the flaw without getting BP. |
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May 1 2007, 05:08 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Spurs are highly illegal, the protective covers have no restrictions. The comparison is meaningless. RAW: Protective covers can protect both cyber and normal eyes. They are available in transparent or one-way reflective versions. The fact they can be used on normal eyes tells me these are simply an armored contact lenses. The one way reflective doesn't work unless it fits like a contact lenses. Little bubbles just doesn't work. For those with cybereyes or with eye poking young children. Paying 100 for some eye protection sounds like a sweet deal. Like optional safety features on your car. If you could get rather cheap one-way reflective contact lenses would you?. |
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May 1 2007, 05:11 AM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
It may be distinctive, but it would be like telling the police that you were assaulted by a guy in leather chaps at a gay pride parade (or a rodeo, same effect). You just narrowed it down to only half a million people.
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May 1 2007, 05:21 AM
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#17
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
Keep in mind that the distinctive style flaw is long dead, actually. You're the GM, how much you want to penalize for a common mod is up to you (after all, I could easily see it ruining a disguise test, and I don't know how common cosmods are in your game in general), I just hope you're mindful of keeping such penalties it consistent. Remember that in SR4 the -lack- of any sort of body modification can actually be pretty distinctive in the right context. And in a world filled with eye recorders (standard in any cybereye! :vegm:), drones and security cameras, most people that really want to come gunning for you will most likely have at least a mugshot anyway, and can just zap that picture over to anyone with a PAN and an image link (i.e., pretty much everyone). If they don't have a picture of you, then well, you probably didn't screw up badly enough to have many problems anyway.
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May 1 2007, 06:44 AM
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#18
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Cosmetic eyes are common in 2070. Lots of teenagers have them. Some even display their makers logo. (I imagine plain white eyes with the CK logo on them). Distinctive eyes might help narrow things down a bit when asking around about people, but broadly speaking it's not a Shadowrunner's biggest worry. And I wouldn't charge extra for anything but the most outrageous cosmetic modifications. |
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May 1 2007, 03:18 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 2-January 04 From: California Protectorate Member No.: 5,949 |
I wasn't comparing the legality of the two. I was comparing how both are grafted onto you, and can't be removed or retracted. It's not something unique, but it IS distinguishing.
That's probably my biggest worry. In terms of how distinctive it is, it's probably only about as distinctive as having a scar over your right eye or the equivalent. However, unlike such scars, the covers can't be removed or changed. They're a constant part of your face. When you consider that this is supposed to be a stealthy, sneaky character, it worries me that he's going to have a hard time disguising himself. In any case, I figure that as long as he realizes it's something that might interfere with his ability to disguise himself, it's his choice to have it. EDIT-Cosmetic eyes are not the same thing. Their purpose is much less combat oriented, for one. Secondly, they can be changed to look like anything the user wants, including normal eyes. |
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May 1 2007, 03:28 PM
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#20
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
But the covers can be removed and replaced. Your eyes can be removed and replaced. Your skull can be removed and replaced. All you need is a good surgeon or a knife, a mirrior, and very little squeamishness.
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May 1 2007, 03:29 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 2-January 04 From: California Protectorate Member No.: 5,949 |
Well, if they can be removed with little effort, than I'm worrying for nothing. :-D
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May 1 2007, 03:31 PM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
These covers were not designed for combat. They are built in saftey glasses for the power tool crowd. Hell, if it meant I never needed to put on stupid safty goggles that fog up everytime I pull out my Dremmel I would consider going in for them. They are probably even ANSI certified or the SR Universe equivalent for eye protection.
I don't think of them as a Jordi LaForge type of external apparatus, as much as I think of them as a sheath that covers the entire visible surface of the eye, corona and all. They could be clear and not simply visible, or they could be not clear. As to the issue of disguise If you're concerned about not being able to disguise not having them you should be equally concerned about not being able to disguise having them in a world where they might be very common. |
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May 1 2007, 03:35 PM
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#23
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
Cosmetic eyes are not all that different though, really. For one thing neither cost any essence, and in fact, while it is most likely something just missed in the revisions, the protective covers are listed in the tables twice, once under eyeware and once under a category it had to itself: Cosmetics. As for being combat oriented, they're nice to have, I suppose, but they're effectively useless for the vast majority of activities. They only apply the armor to the eye area, which implies that you'd have to make a called shot of some sort to aim for the eyes, which is unlikely to be allowed to happen in any scenario other than bypassing armor actions, which are freakishly rare as it is.
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May 1 2007, 04:17 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 2-January 04 From: California Protectorate Member No.: 5,949 |
So then, should I say they DON'T give any armor to the eye area? There's a difference between work goggles and something that can potentially stop a bullet. These eye covers can certainly act as goggles, but the fact that it gives ballistic armor, not just impact, suggests to me that these WERE designed with combat in mind.
I only ever saw the eyeware entry. If it's cosmetic, then I'll guess that it CAN be removed without too much difficulty. Which means that he's not bonded to them until death or surgeon do us part, and that was my only real concern. |
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May 1 2007, 04:38 PM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
They give armor to the eye area. But 2 will never stop a bullet. There is not one gun in SR4 that will be reduced to stun with merely 2 armor. So it's as strong as a leather jacket at stopping bullets, or about what I'd say a pair of ANSI certified safty gogles provide. |
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