To build a Green Beret..., No, not the silly hat... Options

[TheOneRonin]

The "Game Level" thread has gotten me thinking about dice pools and skill levels, and how the rest of the dumpshock community thinks about what a trained expert looks like on paper.

Having said that, I'd like to conduct a bit of an experiment. I'd like to see what you all think, in terms of stats, a 2070s Army Green Beret (Special Forces) character would look like. This is not a challenge to build the most lethal ass-kicker, or the toughest street samurai. This is call to show what skills/abilities/implants/gear you think such a character would have. There is no right or wrong build, just your opinion based on your games, the power level you play at, and how you think that particular character would look if he/she showed up in one of your games.

Something else that would be neat, but not 100% required, is a short blurb stating your motivation behind the skills/attributes/ware you picked. It would really help me get some insight into your methods.



I'd like the characters to be built as close to RAW as possible, with the following considerations:

-Character is primarily a shooter with an Army Infantry background.

-Character should be capable of meaningfully engaging in all of the following operations: Direct Action, Unconventional Warfare, Recruit/Train/Equip indigenous guerrilla forces, Insertion by Land/Air/Sea, Long Range Recon, and Intelligence Gathering.

-No build point limit. Spend as many points as you think would make sense for this type of character.

-Money is a non-issue. Spend as much nuyen as you think the Government would spend.

-Availability rating is unlimited.

-Skill Groups capped at 6. Individual Skills capped at 6 (or 7 with Aptitude).

-No specializing within skill groups. Since there is no BP cap, there isn't any reason to rank up a group and then break it so you can add specializations.



I think that covers everything. And I will be asking questions...not to be hostile, but to find out more about what made you build your character the way you do. Also, I'm open to any questions/clarifications you may have/need.

[Karaden]

Sounds like fun, now I just have to figure out just how advanced I think a green beret is... Maybe I should go through and create a whole list of character: Starting private, trained private, tested/proven private, special forces inductee, special forces member, green beret... something like that. I'm not really familar with the military structure (and know you don't jump from private to special forces so easily, but private is a more encompassing term) but how does that general progression look?

[kzt]

Well, that means no obvious chrome. Typical cost of the the training today is many hundreds of thousands to over a million IIRC, so several million isn't out of line. Typical requirements are that people be smart, physically quite strong, extremely determined and tough. Assuming you are dealing with someone who has been around a while so has had multi-disciplinary training... Hmm.

[TheOneRonin]

[Karaden]

Ok, I'm going to keep what I have, because I don't like remembering all those ranks. Untrained will be the guy walking into the recruitment office, trained will be after a few months at boot camp, tested will be first taste of real combat (aftering going to whatever school) then a bit of a jump to someone who is being considered for special forces, then a while later when they are in and have performed as special forces, then the final build when they have been promoted from special forces to green beret (or are they the same thing?)

Here is Joe Private *salute*

[ Spoiler ]

Bod: 3
Agi: 3
Rea: 3
Str: 3
Cha: 3
Int: 3
Log: 3
Wil: 3
Ini: 6
Edg: 4
Ess: 5.9

Guts
Combat Paralysis
SINner

Firearms group 1
Athletics group 1
Perception 1
Computer 1
Data Search 1
Pilot Ground Craft 1
Dodge 1

Military History 3
Military Procedure 1
Military Weaponry 1
Weapon Design 1
Militar Laws 1
Urban Brawl 4
Football 4
Club Music 2
UCAS Politics 1

Equipment of note:
Datajack

So basicly someone who has been looking at getting into the military for a bit, has a touch of practice shooting weapons at a range and is in decent shape. Guts because he was brave enough to sign up for the military.

And for refrence this is 200 BP + equipment

Working on his next steps right now.

*edit*

[Tarantula]

Well, going off the top of my head what I think a green beret requires for attributes and skills heres what I came up with:

[ Spoiler ]

Attributes:
Bod: 5
Agi: 6
Rea: 6
Str: 5
^High phys stats due to the extreme demand put on the body by the training
Cha:4
Log: 4
Int: 5
Wil: 5
^High mental stats due to the nessesary determination (will), will of self (cha), as well as mental ability (int/log) to qualify.
Skills:
Close Combat Group: 5 (Blades, Clubs, Unarmed)
Firearms Group: 5 (Automatics, Longarms, Pistols)
Athletics Group: 4 (Climbing, Gymnastics, Running, Swimming)
Outdoors Group: 3 (Navigation, Survival, Tracking)
^All the groups primarily come from the basic training IMO.
Leadership: 6
^You don't get to this kind of level without being able to lead someone effectively if required.
Infiltration: 6
^They sure aren't loud as hell.
Dodge: 5
^Effectiveness in combat.
Perception: 5
^More aware.
Pilot Ground: 4
Pilot Water: 4
^Need to be able to get around if needed.
First Aid: 4
^Patch up your buddies.
Diving: 3
Parachuting: 3
^For deploying
Instruction: 3
^Your "Recruit/Train/Equip indigenous guerrilla forces" requirement
Armorer: 3
^Able to fashion makeshift equipment when needed
Demolitons: 3
^Basic profieciency w/them


As far as gear and stuff goes, they'd get whatever they need. In SR terms, they'd likely have wired 2-3, as well as a host of things like damage compensators, sleep regulators, and whatnot. Don't really feel like picking through EQ atm, but theres my stats anyway.

[TheOneRonin]

[TheOneRonin]

[Karaden]

*salute* Welcome Joe Trained Private!

[ Spoiler ]

Bod: 4
Agi: 3
Rea: 3
Str: 4
Cha: 3
Int: 3
Log: 3
Wil: 4
Ini: 6
Edg: 4
Ess: 5.9

Guts
Combat Paralysis
SINner

Firearms group 2
Athletics group 2
Perception 1
Computer 1
Data Search 1
Pilot Ground Craft 1
Dodge 2
Armorer 1
Etiquette(Military) 1(3)
Unarmed Combat 1

Military History 3
Military Procedure 2
Military Weaponry 2
Weapon Design 1
Military Laws 1
Urban Brawl 4
Football 4
Club Music 2
UCAS Politics 1

Equipment of note:
Datajack
Cybereyes 1 (Smartlink, Vision Magnification 1, image link, eye recording unit)
Ares Alpha
Armored Jacket

Now he has been through some basic training, tuffened him up, learned some basics. Next he'll move on to a specialist school and join an actual unit.

Cost: 268 BP + Equipment

*edit* Alright, maybe I'll drop the specialisty canadaite down to someone who has been around a while (That e-4 or whatever maybe).

P.S. Is dermal sheathing obvious? Seems like sometimes it says it is sometimes it says it isn't. (Course if your wearing clothing it definetly isn't obvious.)

[Tarantula]

Plates definately pretty much always are. Sheaths are less than plates, but different than basic normal skin.

And only if your clothing covers it. Rating 3 dermal sheathing is the whole body.

If you want subtle armor, go with orthoskin.

[Whipstitch]

As a general rule of thumb I wouldn't go with anything more drastic than the LoneStar SWAT suite seen in Augmentation, which consists of plastic bone lacing, Wired Reflexes 1 (which should be fine provided you turn it off as necessary) and some simple retinal mods which retails for 16k-32k nuyen depending on the grade.

And no offense Tarantula, but examples like yours are an interpretation I've never really agreed with. I've always figured that special forces guys would instead have 4's in most attributes along with the Guts, Toughness and high pain tolerance 1 qualities and a good Edge pool. It helps to be toned, gifted and otherwise blessed with natural talent, but 6s? These guys likely have very high skills and take great care of themselves, but they're not Rambo or Superman nor do they claim to be. Likewise I think skills in the 4+ range in just about all relevant skills is overkill. I've always figured that they'd have 4s and 5s in skills like Firearms, Perception, Athletics, Survival and Leadership but would otherwise have good, solid foundations like 1s, 2s and 3s with appropriate specializations in many, many other skills along with higher ratings in a few select specialties like the vehicle operation, instruction and repair skills. Special Forces guys are valuable for the breadth of their skills and accomplish things through grit, discipline and teamwork tests rather than being superhuman. For things like Leadership and instruction tests you don't always need a double digit dicepool to get the job done.

[TheOneRonin]

[Stahlseele]

yeah, with not limited ressources i'd rather go for biotech armor . . orthoskin which is more upgradeable and can heal itself at least partly if neccessary. . also MUCH harder to spot

[Karaden]

*salute* Joe Proven Private returning from the field.

[ Spoiler ]

Bod: 4(5)
Agi: 4
Rea: 4
Str: 4
Cha: 3
Int: 4
Log: 4
Wil: 4
Ini: 6
Edg: 4

Guts
SINner

Firearms group 3
Athletics group 3
Perception 2
Computer 1
Data Search 1
Pilot Ground Craft 2
Dodge(ranged) 2(4)
Armorer 2
Etiquette(Military) 2(4)
Unarmed Combat 2
Parachuting 2
Leadership 1
First Aid(Combat Wounds) 1(3)

Military History 3
Military Procedure 2
Military Weaponry 3
Weapon Design 2
Military Laws 3
Urban Brawl 4
Football 4
Club Music 2
UCAS Politics 2

Equipment of note:
Datajack
Cybereyes 2 (Low-light vision, Thermographic Vision, Smartlink, Vision Magnification 1, image link, eye recording unit)
Plastic Bone Lacing
Dermal Plating 1
Ares Alpha
Full Body Armor

[Wounded Ronin]

I'd had the impression that green berets were cultural specialists and that's part of the reason that JFK was obsessed with them and kept one of their hats on his desk.

[knasser]

Interesting idea. I'm not familiar with Green Beret's so went for something I think would represent British SAS. I don't know if that has given my take on it a slightly more squad-based approach. Some of the posts here are positing more of an "infiltrator" I think, which isn't what I've gone for.

[ Spoiler ]

35 years old, human, special forces soldier.

Body 4 (5)
Agility 3 (4)
Reaction 4 (5)
Strength 3 (4)
Intuition 4
Charisma 3
Logic 3
Willpower 2

Edge 3
Init
Ess 0.3


Skills:
Firearms Group 4
Unarmed Combat 3
Blades 2
Gymnastics 2
Infiltration 3
Diving 2 (if suitable for role)
Parachuting 2 (if suitable for role)
Dodge 2 (+2 from MbW)
Pilot (Groundcraft) 1
Swimming 1
Climbing 1
Running (Endurance) 3
Etiquette 2
Instruction 1
Intimidation 1
Leadership 2
Negotiation 1
Disguise (Camouflage spec) 1
Language 2
Navigation 2
Perception 4 (+3 auditory, +2 visual)
Shadowing (team spec) 2
Armourer (firearms spec) 1
Computer 1
Demolitions 1 (higher if suitable for role)
First Aid 3
Survival 3

Knowledge (Tactics) 4

Cyberware (All Alpha Grade): Implanted Commlink (Fairlight Caliban, Custom O/S - Firewall 4, System 4), Datajack, Orientation System, Cybereyes III (w/ Flare Comp, Image Link, Low Light, Smart Link, Thermographic, Vision Magnification and Vision Enhancement 2), Cyberears (w/ Audio Enhancement 3, Damper), Biomonitor, Blood Circuit Control, Dermal Plating 3, Move By Wire II,

Bioware (All Alpha Grade): Suprathyroid Gland, Sleep Regulator,Damage Compensator 6

Notes:

As you can see, he's acquired an impressive range of skills in his career. You could easily add some hacking type skills to this character to make a more technically adept character, though this one can carry out some basics. If adding hacking, electronic warfare, etc, I'd probably drop the Firearms group to 3 or 2.

I've fitted an implanted commlink not because it offers great advantage to the user, but because it is useful to command. It can't easily be taken out by the soldier themself and there's no reason they'd necessarily have admin rights to it. You might think the commlink used would be better, but it's pretty good (especially for range). I envisage IC with orders to erase data if compromised.

It was a close call between Wired Reflexes and Move By Wire, but I went with Move By Wire because otherwise I would have had to get Skillwires separately. I think Skillwires are essential for this role. Would otherwise use Wired Reflexes, however.

Willpower might seem a little low. It's a judgement call. This is someone who is conditioned to obey orders regardless of own feelings. I've always figured that has a fairly lowering effect on Willpower.

I consider this character about as good as you're going to get in any fair-sized group. Anyone better than this is going to be appearing in ones or twos at most, unless they're developed NPCs or a swarm of Mantids ;) .

[Ed_209a]

[Wounded Ronin]

[Backgammon]

I think Green Berets are going to hav Willpower in the 4 to 6 range. There are few as determined as they are, and that actually is a big part of the difference between soldier dude and specfor dude.

They should probably have a decent instruction skill, since they spend most of their operational time training locals to fight.

As has been said, they should be cyber-light. Cyberware requires maintenance and may break down - you don't want that to happen in the middle of a swampy forest in the middle of nowhere.

Depending on the unit type, though, cyber will take a different focus. Close Quarter specialists (like Delta Force) may go for typical Sammy cyberware - reaction enhancements and the likes, but behind enemy lines types would go with cyber like sleep regulators, synthacardium, etc, stuff to help them survive harsh environments, long walks and long deployment time rather that stuff to help them kill shit, as they will either kill silently with the element of surprise or, well, die regardless of cyber.

[Ed_209a]

An important thing to note about these stats is that skill at this level is very perishable. It takes a lot of expensive training to get to these levels, and a lot to stay there.

If the soldier were separated from that training, and wasn't doing it for real in the field, his skill levels could easily drop a point or two, depending on how high, and how active the skill is.

[Magus]

Also remember a SpecOp Alpha team consists of 5 men.
1 Commander LT or better
1 Weapon Specialist
1 Commo Specialist
1 Engineer
1 Medic

All of the guys will be specialized in their field of expertise very rightly a rating 6
and cross trained in the other disciplines. The commander eh whatever officers do. :P

[Ed_209a]

[Riley37]

[Stahlseele]

[Magus]