[RL] Journalist opinion on Yaks Options

[PBTHHHHT]

interesting article by a foreign reporter in Japan. So Japan doesn't have the RICO act, doof. too bad.

Makes me feel like I should have taken that international law class. ah well.

[JBlades]

Wow, awesome article. Thanks for the link! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Certainly puts a different spin on a Neo-Tokyo game...

[Wounded Ronin]

Well, the problem with the Yaks getting all pissy over a journalist and going to the US to kill his family is that unlike in Japan, people in the US are more likely to be armed and to be willing and able to blast your head off if you come calling in the middle of the night. I don't think there's any jury in the US that would favor a dead Japanese mafia man over an American homeowner if it ever went to court, even in places such as New York State where juries are on the whole less likely to view self-defense shootings favorably.

Hell, man. Fill out your paperwork with the ATF and get a FN Minimi, AKA M249. 1,000 rounds per minute at close range = pwnt.

[Adarael]

Seconded. The Yakuza are really good at yelling at you. They're really good at beating you up. And when push comes to shove, they're pretty okay at cutting on you with something sharp, though. But dollars to donuts any Yakuza man who think's he's hard would be grossly, casually outdone by basic gangs from the US. Because Yakuza guys who are from Japan haven't seen people get killed in front of them with casual abandon.

They're vicious, but they're not casual killers. American criminals generally are.

I just don't think they'd be too keen to go up against someone armed. Yakuza employees who grew up outside of Japan, that's different.

[Cthulhudreams]

Why would you bother with an armed confrontation in his house or a casual killing? Wouldn't you just ambush him outside his home as he leaves for work with a silenced SMG? Even if you had a concealed weapon, you're not going to get to draw it.

[kzt]

Because tattooed suit-wearing, SMG armed Japaneses guys who don't speak English parked outside a house tend to attract attention in most neighborhoods?

[WeaverMount]

Why would you bother with an armed confrontation in his house or a casual killing? Wouldn't you just ambush him outside his home as he leaves for work with a silenced SMG? Even if you had a concealed weapon, you're not going to get to draw it.

Yup. I can entertain the idea that being armed can help stop a burglar. They are messing around with your stuff make some noise, you wake up, get your gun, find them with there hands full of lootz and plug them. But even modestly trained killer would just shoot you before you know what's what. Maybe in your bed, maybe between your door and car, ad nauseum. I really just see Americans being armed as extra incentive to make sure you hit them out of the blue and put them down. IED regularly kill well trained well equipped soldiers who know people are trying to kill them. Pretty sure it would work on a journalists family. Plus we know the Johnson doesn't care about collateral damage (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) .

[WeaverMount]

>Because tattooed suit-wearing, SMG armed
Easily covered

>Japaneses guys
Totally depends but most wont get more than a second looks. I'm generalizing from what I know of TX, and OK sticks

>who don't speak English
How would they know

>parked outside a house
Totally depends what it's like around the house. I bet though they have some place in there dog trot where they pass parked cars

[Cthulhudreams]

Lots of people from japan speak english. I'd presume that would be a key criteria when selecting someone to go assassinate someone in the US. Other options include just shooting out his window and lobbing a frag grenade into his bedroom at 3am, which would kill you instantly before you got to draw your CCW.

The other thing to do is just wait around outside the metropolitan newspaper where he works and wait to see when he gets into work. Then you can tell roughly when he leaves home. Then you just rock up a bit before that, with your gun in the glovebox. Less time on the scene to be 'suspicious' Might take you a couple of goes to get right, but hey, life goes on.

Or yeah, an IED in his garage would work.

Or sniper the guy from a rooftop or a near by parked van. That worked for quite a while for the washington dudes.

Lots of ways to kill someone where a concealed weapon is going to do precisely SFA to your survival chances.

[Samba]

Lots of people from japan speak english. I'd presume that would be a key criteria when selecting someone to go assassinate someone in the US. Other options include just shooting out his window and lobbing a frag grenade into his bedroom at 3am, which would kill you instantly before you got to draw your CCW.

The other thing to do is just wait around outside the metropolitan newspaper where he works and wait to see when he gets into work. Then you can tell roughly when he leaves home. Then you just rock up a bit before that, with your gun in the glovebox. Less time on the scene to be 'suspicious' Might take you a couple of goes to get right, but hey, life goes on.

Or yeah, an IED in his garage would work.

Or sniper the guy from a rooftop or a near by parked van. That worked for quite a while for the washington dudes.

Lots of ways to kill someone where a concealed weapon is going to do precisely SFA to your survival chances.

And lets be fair, there is a big difference between Mrs suburban housewife picking up a gun and killing someone, and some street gang member doing it.

There is also a world of difference between your average American gun-happy ganger and a professional yakuza hitman.

[Wounded Ronin]

Dude, we're talking about a Japanese yakuza man who probably thinks he's hard but isn't due to Japan being a very safe and relatively non-violent place to live, not freaking Agent 47. You're seriously telling me that a Japanese national buying large amounts of explosives for an IED or trying to get his hands on frag grenades isn't going to raise some eyebrows? Timmy McVeigh was different because he was a white guy and basically would have had the benefit of social camoflauge.

Same thing with hiding somewhere and blasting the target when he walks by. Maybe you'll kill him, or maybe not, since in the US it's also possible for civilians to wear body armor. Either way, again as a Japanese national, it's going to be a lot harder to exfiltrate, especially when according to the article the FBI is already on the lookout for yakuza assassins around the family.

This is not even speaking of possible environmental obstacles. In Japan you've got a primarily urban environment. However, someone in the US might possibly live out in the Mojave desert, or in Appalacia, or something like that. I think a soft city person is going to have trouble hacking it out there and being adequately prepared for the environment, let alone getting in and out smoothly in more rural areas where being a Japanese national would be downright bizarre to the locals.

Last night, when I was falling asleep, I had a little fantasy of a yakuza guy in a suit thinking he's all tough being confronted in a ranch the middle of the Mojave by a homeowner wearing NIJ level 3 body armor with a helmet and face shield and wielding an ATF-approved machine gun. The homeowner blasts out the yakuza man's knees with sustained automatic fire, cauterizes the stumps with a branding iron, and throws him out naked in the desert at high noon to die painfully and slowly.

[Cain]

Dude, we're talking about a Japanese yakuza man who probably thinks he's hard but isn't due to Japan being a very safe and relatively non-violent place to live, not freaking Agent 47. You're seriously telling me that a Japanese national buying large amounts of explosives for an IED or trying to get his hands on frag grenades isn't going to raise some eyebrows? Timmy McVeigh was different because he was a white guy and basically would have had the benefit of social camoflauge.

Don't underestimate the Yakuza, or Japanese hard men. They beat people up for a living. They might not be any better with guns than your average ganger, due to lack of practice opportunities, but they can and do trash martial arts students on a regular basis. At any event, the Mafia isn't going around shooting people on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean they've gone soft.

Second, you don't need large amounts of explosives to create an IED. A glass jug, snake bite kit, and gasoline; or a cigarette and a bag of potato chips will do the trick just as readily. Besides which, McVeigh boughs tons of fertilizer for Oklahoma City, not high explosives. That fertilizer is now restricted in excessive quantities, but you don't need nearly as much to blow up a house as McVeigh needed to take out a large office building.

This is not even speaking of possible environmental obstacles. In Japan you've got a primarily urban environment. However, someone in the US might possibly live out in the Mojave desert, or in Appalacia, or something like that. I think a soft city person is going to have trouble hacking it out there and being adequately prepared for the environment, let alone getting in and out smoothly in more rural areas where being a Japanese national would be downright bizarre to the locals.

Ever seen Romeo Must Die? You'd be surprised at how far a red t-shirt, baseball cap, and funny accent get you when you're carrying a sack of Asian food.

[Wounded Ronin]

Don't underestimate the Yakuza, or Japanese hard men. They beat people up for a living. They might not be any better with guns than your average ganger, due to lack of practice opportunities, but they can and do trash martial arts students on a regular basis. At any event, the Mafia isn't going around shooting people on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean they've gone soft.

Second, you don't need large amounts of explosives to create an IED. A glass jug, snake bite kit, and gasoline; or a cigarette and a bag of potato chips will do the trick just as readily. Besides which, McVeigh boughs tons of fertilizer for Oklahoma City, not high explosives. That fertilizer is now restricted in excessive quantities, but you don't need nearly as much to blow up a house as McVeigh needed to take out a large office building.


Ever seen Romeo Must Die? You'd be surprised at how far a red t-shirt, baseball cap, and funny accent get you when you're carrying a sack of Asian food.

Well, this is the thing. If any one person really dearly and truly wants to kill a specific other person, in most cases person number 1 can eventually succeed if he keeps trying.

I do not, however, believe that it would make any sense to be *more* scared of an out-of-element yakuza guy than, say, the local street gang. The yakuza guy would really have to swim upstream as it were since he's out of element and has more barrier to overcome. The local street gang would in effect be more dangerous and more likely to succeed and more likely to have individual members "get away with it" once they decided to kill a specific local.

[nezumi]

Do the Yakuza employ ninjas? That could really tip the balance in their favor. The ninja wouldn't need a passport either, he'd just hang onto the bottom of the jetliner for the whole trip and meditate or something, assuming he can't fly himself.

[Cain]

I do not, however, believe that it would make any sense to be *more* scared of an out-of-element yakuza guy than, say, the local street gang. The yakuza guy would really have to swim upstream as it were since he's out of element and has more barrier to overcome. The local street gang would in effect be more dangerous and more likely to succeed and more likely to have individual members "get away with it" once they decided to kill a specific local.

There's thousands of Japanese exchange students here right now; I'll bet that there's more than a few who are affiliated with the Yakuza. Some of those exchange students have assimilated into American culture so well, you'd hardly be able to tell the difference. I've personally met over a dozen Japanese nationals who had almost no discernable accent to my ear; and I study accents as a hobby as well as speaking limited Japanese!

It should also be mentioned that English is, IIRC, a required subject for every Japanese student. Just about every Japanese person under 60 speaks limited English, and quite a few older people do as well.

In other words, don't bet on them being "out of their element". Not to mention that like black people, whites tend to think all asians look alike. They're just as likely to "get away with it". Rather or not you should be "more scared" of one rather than the other is a personal thing; but don't think the Japanese hard men are going to have trouble simply because they're Japanese.

[CircuitBoyBlue]

Well, this is the thing. If any one person really dearly and truly wants to kill a specific other person, in most cases person number 1 can eventually succeed if he keeps trying.

I do not, however, believe that it would make any sense to be *more* scared of an out-of-element yakuza guy than, say, the local street gang. The yakuza guy would really have to swim upstream as it were since he's out of element and has more barrier to overcome. The local street gang would in effect be more dangerous and more likely to succeed and more likely to have individual members "get away with it" once they decided to kill a specific local.

My plan: not piss off street gangs or the yakuza

[PBTHHHHT]

A yakuza operatives needs eliminate someone in the US ... ok, he either a) contacts his US associates, ones who've been in the States for years cultivating contacts and relations with the US underworld, who arranges things such as hiring a hitman, or b) comes over himself with cash and hires a hitman from a list of hitmen the yaks have used over the years or recommended from their american associates. Problems with blending? Done. Equipment issues? The hitman better have the rep to back up for the money they paid for the assignment. Knowledge of the area? If they hire local talent, then that person should know enough at the very least.

[Wounded Ronin]

There's thousands of Japanese exchange students here right now; I'll bet that there's more than a few who are affiliated with the Yakuza. Some of those exchange students have assimilated into American culture so well, you'd hardly be able to tell the difference. I've personally met over a dozen Japanese nationals who had almost no discernable accent to my ear; and I study accents as a hobby as well as speaking limited Japanese!

It should also be mentioned that English is, IIRC, a required subject for every Japanese student. Just about every Japanese person under 60 speaks limited English, and quite a few older people do as well.

In other words, don't bet on them being "out of their element". Not to mention that like black people, whites tend to think all asians look alike. They're just as likely to "get away with it". Rather or not you should be "more scared" of one rather than the other is a personal thing; but don't think the Japanese hard men are going to have trouble simply because they're Japanese.

Dude, my dad is Japanese. I was born in Japan. My prior post was not predicated on the assumption that the people being discussed couldn't speak English or anything silly like that.

[Wounded Ronin]

Do the Yakuza employ ninjas? That could really tip the balance in their favor. The ninja wouldn't need a passport either, he'd just hang onto the bottom of the jetliner for the whole trip and meditate or something, assuming he can't fly himself.

My understanding is that ninja are wont to cling to the top of the plane while gripping a katana by the blade in their teeth.

[ludomastro]

Ever seen Romeo Must Die? You'd be surprised at how far a red t-shirt, baseball cap, and funny accent get you when you're carrying a sack of Asian food.

As a former delivery driver for a national (US) pizza chain, I second this. I could go into the ghetto and the worse question I got was, "Would you like a hit or a tip?"

I think an Uzi would fit in a large pizza box too.

[WeaverMount]

Cain, the Yaks not speaking English bit was from ktz not Wounded Ronin.

About the equipment issue there was that Virginia tech thingy. Also I can't speak for the rest of the country, but I personally took a Vietnamese exchange student to a gun show in Austin. He was dumb founded by what people were willing to sell him on the spot.

Also about the Yaks not being "hard" enough to blow up some guys house?

I would like to go home, but Goto has a reputation for taking out his target and anyone else in the vicinity.

The journalist got though a whole article about Yaks, child porn, people trying to kill his family, and epidemic corruption without exaggeration or metaphor. I think we can take this at face value, and infer that Goto doesn't use fists and blades for his killing of people he wants to take out as an example.

[Cain]

A yakuza operatives needs eliminate someone in the US ... ok, he either a) contacts his US associates, ones who've been in the States for years cultivating contacts and relations with the US underworld, who arranges things such as hiring a hitman, or b) comes over himself with cash and hires a hitman from a list of hitmen the yaks have used over the years or recommended from their american associates. Problems with blending? Done. Equipment issues? The hitman better have the rep to back up for the money they paid for the assignment. Knowledge of the area? If they hire local talent, then that person should know enough at the very least.

And thus, Shadowrunners are born. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Dude, my dad is Japanese. I was born in Japan. My prior post was not predicated on the assumption that the people being discussed couldn't speak English or anything silly like that.

Sorry, I got your post and kzt's mixed up.

However, two points. Number one, how do you know that I'm not nisei as well? Number two, why did you say "out of element" multiple times, when you know full well how some Japanese people are near-totally assimilated into American culture? I don't think being "out of element" is going to be a big factor.

As a former delivery driver for a national (US) pizza chain, I second this. I could go into the ghetto and the worse question I got was, "Would you like a hit or a tip?"

I think an Uzi would fit in a large pizza box too.

Gah, last Friday I pulled this stunt to get into a secured building to see a friend. Almost made it, too. I should have tried a pizza box instead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[Adarael]

Just as a question, how easy do most of you think it is to gate a silenced submachine gun? Or a frag grenade?
And let me ask the corrolary to one answer to that question: why don't more gang bangers use silenced SMGs or grenades?

Yeah, I admit it, I'm leading the jury. Because getting that shit isn't as easy as it is in Shadowrun. Not impossible, but not like getting a handgun - it takes work. And what's more, when you use weapons like that? The FBI and ATF will be all over your ass. In a hurry.

God help you if you used a grenade. Congrats, you're now a terrorist, with all the glory that entails.

My point is, the Yakuza aren't gonna pull that kind of shit on some journalist's family. It's totally not worth it, because they have a ton to lose when the lawhammer drops. The guy wrote harsh words about them, and they don't pull that kind of response unless you've seriously cut into their profits.

[WeaverMount]

I totally agree with you about the grenade being a bit much. As for criminal Asians with silenced SMGs in the US? I know first hand that Triad grunts at Galileo High School in SF have them at least they did around 2002. I don't know enough about law enforcement and SMGs to speak with confidence, but my understanding is that many use very generic rounds that would be pretty hard to tell from an autoloading pistol.

[Adarael]

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm talking about. I find it very likely that those guys had full-auto pistols, because it's not all that complex to mod something for.

You're talking about after-marked modded pistols that are capable of full-auto, such as someone who's modded their glock or walther. There's no way that anyone will mistake an actual SMG for a pistol, because an SMG is built from the ground up to be a law enforcement or military weapon with selective fire. What's more, I find it unlikely these gangers had silenced weapons, additonally, because of the inherent difficulties in getting an extended, threaded barrel.