Pet peeve/Favorite thing Options

[sunnyside]

I'm curious about pet peeves. As it gives a laundry list of what to watch out for in SR4. Favorite things is more for fun and keeping the thread from going so negative it generates a background count.

Pet Peeve: Movement Power. One little thing, so much annoyance,

Favorit thing: Matrix went wireless.

[Wasabi]

Pet Peeve: Adepts specialized in combat being routinely trumped by Street Sams. The Adept can do more, go faster OR take more damage but never two of the three or all three.

Favorite Thing: The organization of the splat books so I always know which book to find a type of item in. [Weapons in Arsenal, Drugs in Augmentation, etc.]

[Stahlseele]

peeve: (imroved)Invisibility[if i am invisible, and i pick up a pen and put it into my pocket, will the pen be invisible too?
favourite: cyberlimbs in SR4 finally are worth a consideration!

[The Jopp]

Pet Peeve:

Invisibility
Illusion spells should fool the mind, not the eye. Regardless of visual mods or technological whatnots if the spell convinces you that im not there then im NOT there. Same goes for cameras regarding improved invisibility.

Basically - Invisibility is too simple to foil.

Physical Combat Spells
Why are the spells that are A:Noticable B:Obvious C:Easier To Resist - So bloody heavy on drain?

Let see...

I throw my low-drain invisible death beam at someone and he rolls 1-6D6 resistance and i roll around 12D6...
Or i can get headache from casting a beam of fire that sets the poor sap alight AND he gets to dodge AND resist...

Guess which i'd choose?

[HappyDaze]

Favorite Thing: The wireless Matrix concepts and the possibilities they offer.

Pet Peeve: The wireless Matrix mechanics and the possiblities they fail to deliver on.

[The Jopp]

Pet Peeve:

Wireless matrix - Quick hacking rules for combat (Like a combined simple roll for spoofing something without X amounts of tests to find persona etc etc)

[NightmareX]

Pet Peeve - Technomancers are magic.

Favorite Thing - The Matrix is easily playable now, and the magic system is nice and coherent for the first time since Awakenings.

[Chrysalis]

Pet Peeve: full on sex change operation with cloned fertile eggs is not possible

Favorite thing: Wireless matrix is not only there, but playable.

[Nigel]

Pet Peeve: Physical/Martial adepts being so terrible compared to cybered-up street sams.

Favorite Thing: Social combat. It's wonderful!

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

Pet Peeve: focusing on the rules and complaining instead of suspending belief and enjoying RPing.

Favorite: The world and setting. For the first time I found a game where magic is explained and has a reason for being there along with my sci-fi.

[paws2sky]

Favorite Thing: BBB Magic section. Layout is great. Yay for streamlined/unified magic rules! Except for a few minor things, which don't really merit mention, I have no issues with this part of the rules.

Pet Peeve: So many...

• Lack of examples in the BBB and other core books. One of the great things about prior editions was the copious number of examples.
• Layout of the BBB Matrix section. I don't mind the RAW, but the layout drives me completely batshit crazy because everything is spread out over the entire chapter. Prior editions of SR weren't any better, really, but damn.
• Sprites. TMs are too dependent on them, IMO. I'd love to make a TM that specializes in CFs, but I feel like it'd be about as useful as a Street Samurai who specialized in, say, hold-out pistols over all other weapons. Good now and again, but mostly kind of dumb.
• Adept Improved Attribute power. This one merits mention. Its just too damn expensive. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)
• Traditions in Street Magic are kind of blah.
• No Augmented Mage or Burned-Out Mage equivalent archetype character. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

And despite all those pet peeves, I still like this edition.

[GreyBrother]

Favourite Things

• Technomancers are really nice done and Unwired just expands them logically
• Magic A is not Magic A but the Rules are the same
• I actually can follow the sequences of combat
• Many "can" but less "must"

Pet Peeves

• Technomancers depend on Sprites, are either underpowered or overpowered and generally lack some of the flair Otaku had
• Traditions too similar ruleswise, wished for some kind of "workshop"
• 5 years?!
• Presenting AIs and Technomancers to the Public, oh the missing opportunities...
• German Translation

[FlashbackJon]

Pet Peeve: Technomancers are copypasta Mages.

Favorite Thing: Matrix 2.0 or "Holy crap, you mean we can transmit information through the AIR?!"

[Wesley Street]

Pet Peeve: The Matrix chapter - It's poorly laid out, lacks examples and gets really confusing without a knowledgeable translator.

Favorite Thing: Streamlined rules, easier combat resolution and... jeepers, the hacker can actually run along with the rest the team instead of sitting in his mom's basement, eating Cheetos, and whining on the Matrix about how the new Neil the Ork Barbarian series doesn't fit his vision of how the show should be.

[Ryu]

Pet Peeve: The matrix chapter. I´m really curious about the origin of its structure.

Favourite Thing: The variety of playable power levels, even within one group. What do you want to be today?

[Kurious]

Favorite thing:

The well formed world: complete with logical fantasy injection to an otherwise sci-fi genre, a good interpretation of 'the world to come' (also, a nice tie-in with the world long past) and the general and uniform mechanics under a 'point buy' skill based system.

Pet peeve:

I haven't been playing long enough to notice a lot of nuances in the game and system; but it does annoy me that something as simple as 'braking' was neglected in the book.

[sunnyside]

A couple people complained about the adepts now not having the same combat capabilities as a sammy.

But think about it and decide if that's really a problem. Personally I like that the two have different playstyles now. Sammy can bring the straight up combat prowres, but the adept can d all sorts of special stuff Sammies simply cannot do.

[SpasticTeapot]

A couple people complained about the adepts now not having the same combat capabilities as a sammy.

But think about it and decide if that's really a problem. Personally I like that the two have different playstyles now. Sammy can bring the straight up combat prowres, but the adept can d all sorts of special stuff Sammies simply cannot do.

There aren't that many things that adepts can really do in the way of combat - period. Sure, they can have an unarmed combat skill of 10 and lethal damage with fists...but a sammy can do the same thing with strength and spurs without giving up as much versatility.

The only real advantage is that an adept is discreet. Even relatively low-profile cyber - say, muscle augmentation - can be seen in unusual body structure or movement patterns. An adept just looks like anyone else...until he doesn't.

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

and that's exactly why my ninja adept is going to kick ass.

[Muspellsheimr]

The only real advantage is that an adept is discreet. Even relatively low-profile cyber - say, muscle augmentation - can be seen in unusual body structure or movement patterns. An adept just looks like anyone else...until he doesn't.

Actually, being an Adept is not as discrete as bio/genetic augmentation. While the perceiver will not necessarily know what the Adept's capabilities are, it is significantly easier to identify them as an Adept (requiring an Assessing test) that to identify a bio-augmented individual (requiring a medicine test taking minimum of 30 minutes, see p.125, Augmentation).

[Platinum Dragon]

Hmm...

Pet peeve: Adepts are either for kicking people in the face or talking at them. A more diverse range of Adept powers (Gun Kata!) would be well recieved.

[Ol' Scratch]

Peeves: Really hate the new dice mechanic. The old one had its flaws, but at least it was fun and versatile (especially from a GM/design point of view). You had at least three different ways to adjust the difficulty of an action. The impact it has on the new rules are wide-spread and, now that I think about it, are the core for most of my other peeves, too.

Favorites: The new cyberlimb rules are greatly appreciated even if others don't care for them (I always preferred to use them for utilitarian purposes rather than OMFG I KILL JOO uses). Really dig cyberware suites, too, and wish they were more widespread in the rules. I also appreciate the idea behind allowing more things to be customized and personalized even if just in fluff (armor being a good example).

[MJBurrage]

Pet peeve: Adepts are either for kicking people in the face or talking at them. A more diverse range of Adept powers (Gun Kata!) would be well recieved.

Who needs guns when my Thrown Weapons adept can throw a paper clip 60 meters for 6P damage, a rock 72 meters for 8P damage, a ball 120 meters for 7P damage, and an aerodynamic grenade 180 meters.

That along with 3 IPs, Killing Hands, and Facial Sculpt.

[masterofm]

You can punch doing elemental sonic damage, which ignores armor. Sammies can't really do that. Anyways....

Peeves: Loosey goosey rules. I would really like a tighter rule set and better examples of what can and cannot be done with certain spells/mods/whatever. At least two or three times a session we generally get into a rules debate because of the fact that things are not clearly defined enough. It is annoying to look into pretty much all of the books for guidance on a specific problem only to find out that there is nothing that can help our situation.

The matrix - I still think it is made of icky

Favorites: I love the setting and the history. I like that using dice is generally a straightforward skill + stat + mods.

[Platinum Dragon]

Who needs guns when my Thrown Weapons adept can throw a paper clip 60 meters for 6P damage, a rock 72 meters for 8P damage, a ball 120 meters for 7P damage, and an aerodynamic grenade 180 meters.

That along with 3 IPs, Killing Hands, and Facial Sculpt.

Because maybe I'd like my gunslinger adept to have cool things like throw anything or elemental strike or facial sculpt? Or let my hacker adept have something more interesting to take than 'Improved Ability: Hacking.'

I'd just like to see more diverse breeds of adept than 'melee Adept,' 'throwing Adept' and 'face Adept.'

[Ol' Scratch]

To be fair, you can't get a better gunslinger than an adept either. Improved Ability is better than anything you can get through implants for just about any archetypical build.

To also be fair, they've always been a specialist archetype in the game. They did one thing and did that thing "very, very well", whereas their mundane counterparts were more generalized in nature, capable of doing a lot of things only "very well" in comparison. In some cases it's downright disgusting how much better an adept can be; Faces being a prime example. In others the difference is margial, such as with gunslingers.

I think that's where the main issue is with them, though. Sure, a wider range of powers would be nice but the specialist vs. generalist aspect would still be there, leaving people unsatisfied. If they were more versatile, even at the cost of being less "very, very good," more people would be satisfied with their adept characters. Then again, that would sort of ruin the nuances between them and mundane archetypes, too. People inherently want their characters to be well-rounded even if they don't realize it themselves, and that's just one thing an adept has never been particularly good at being. At least not without ridiculous amounts of Karma thrown at them.

[sunnyside]

Because maybe I'd like my gunslinger adept to have cool things like throw anything or elemental strike or facial sculpt? Or let my hacker adept have something more interesting to take than 'Improved Ability: Hacking.'

I'd just like to see more diverse breeds of adept than 'melee Adept,' 'throwing Adept' and 'face Adept.'

Well as you listed there is also the hacking adept (who will be spending those other power points on something fun).

But there are other builds. The movement power adept is semi popular. And I myself rather like the portable super sensor adept. Between extra senses and astral sight the sheer number of dice an adept can pour on the tests to notice things mean you'll be getting a whole lot of information.

There is also the popular "can't touch me" adept with a full combat sense.


Anyway my point was that an adept can take on these different roles. So I don't mind that if all you want to do is shot people with guns a sammy is probably better.

Actually I think the overpriced combat skills help promote adept diversity. If they made the skills cheap people would just take a lot of them and adepts would be overpowered. Being pricey makes the adept look closer at their unique cool skills.

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

You're forgetting about all the cool gymnastics and athletic adept powers too. Great Leap, Wall Run, Traceless Walk, Free fall and Gliding. Not to mention the nimble fingers and melanin control and facial sculpt stuff for infiltration, disguise and thievery. If you want more gun fu, there's also the ability to quick draw any weapon.

[paws2sky]

Discussion of tricking out your Adepts is probably best left to another thread... Just sayin'.

-paws

EDIT: Adept kewlness thread here.

[Platinum Dragon]

I'm not denying Adept's awesomeness, I just want Gun Kata. =P

Anyway, back on topic...

Favourite thing (so far): blending of magic and tech in the same setting without it seeming too gimmicky.

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

Magic an Tech together seems to be a favorite among fans...

Just a note.

Gear heads and spellslingers unite!

[wind_in_the_ston...]

Favorite: What drew me to Shadowrun in the first place - point-build system, no levels or classes, and an incredibly rich game world.

Peeve: monofilament chainsaw. Seriously, WTF?

[Platinum Dragon]

Inspiration strikes! I must now use Aresenal to construct a rocket-propelled monofilament chainsaw!