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> Tricking out your Adept
paws2sky
post Sep 10 2008, 12:41 PM
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Okay, since the pet peeve/favorites thread was going OT into "kewl stuff fer ma Adept," I started this thread to (hopefully) help keep things on track.

So, maybe without going into fully statted builds, describe what your adept can do (and how), different archetypical adepts and the powers they have, etc.

I'll start.

Gunslinger Adept
Similar concepts: Gunbunny Adept, Sniper Adept
Your typical two-gun slinging mofo, often with a Hong Kong Action Movie or Cowboy theme.
Core Adept Powers:
  • Improved Ability (Pistols) - No brainer. Step 1: Max out your dice pool using Imp Ability, high Agility, skill specialization, and smartlink (for when you want to take single shots). Step 2: Pwn. Optional: Swap out pistols for Automatics for a Gunbunny Adept or Longarms for a Sniper Adept.
  • Improved Reflexes - No brainer. You fight, you need to move fast. Also, it helps refresh your Dodge pool regularly.
  • Combat Sense - Buff your Defense and Surprise pools. Always a winner.
  • Multi-Tasking - Keeping an eye on things is very, very good. No good getting ambushed.

EDIT:
Optional: Thinking about it, the Gunslinger Adept could really benefit from some Martial Arts, if your group is using those optional rules.
  • Krav Maga: Ready Weapon as a free action? That = win.
  • Firefight: any of those abilities are good.
  • Ninjuitsu: the Surprise and defense bonuses are worth considering.

Also, melee hardened firearms are a must.

-paws
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Skip
post Sep 10 2008, 01:35 PM
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I like nimble fingers for adepts in general. Quick draw is nice for the gunbunny adept. Great leap combined with [I forget the name, that falling power thingie] to get up and down from good sniper positions.

On a related point, how much and what type of 'ware do you add? You can get quite a lot for one point of essence. Eyes, ears, smell, taste, and a datajack (linguistics) can all be done in 'ware for less than the power point cost.

I'm reading augmentation right now and it makes me think. My third edition gunbunnies always had linked guns, the bonus was worth the essence loss.
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paws2sky
post Sep 10 2008, 02:37 PM
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Personally? I'm partial to using carried gear over implants for most items: Trodes, sim module, smartlink contacts, and so on.

If I'm feeling number crunchy, I'll consider Cybereyes (rating 3, with smartlink, flare comp, low-light, vision mag, plus 4 empty slots to expand on later) and Muscle Toner (2). That's only .6 Ess, leaving plenty of room for other stuff.

Reakt geneware is great for Gunslingers. Attention Co-processor is freakin' amazing. I think there's a good argument to be made for using Synaptic Boosters over Improved Reflexes, if you're not looking to expand past a rating 1 initiative boost.

-paws
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ElFenrir
post Sep 10 2008, 02:42 PM
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I'll give you an example of a good ol' fashioned Kung Fu Fighting Adept. What I would do, anyway.

After I set it up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Quick Question-does it have to be ''pure'' adept? I think, maybe to keep the ''spirit of the thread''', maybe it could-though Geasa/Street Magic and all that could stuff should be allowed.

Wait...Im judging, probably not by this. Im not sure if Im going to go pure with my fellow or not. Or I might do something pretty out there. We'll see.
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paws2sky
post Sep 10 2008, 02:45 PM
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Well, like I said, it doesn't need to be a full write-up, just the key points.

If you feel the need to augment the character, okay, but I think that says something about the state of the Adept rules.

-paws
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Angier
post Sep 10 2008, 02:50 PM
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Spirit's Way Adept
Similar Concepts: Mystic Adept in general, Perception Adepts, Ghost Hunter
An Adept focused on perception Powers and Assensing, typicly very powerfull in conjunction with mystic adepts spells or a gunslinger concept
Core Adept Powers:
  • Astral Perception
  • Motion Sense
  • Magic Sense
  • Enhanced Perception
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ElFenrir
post Sep 10 2008, 03:05 PM
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I'm going to try this natural.

Ill say an Elf, get the 6 Agility, 4 Body, 5 Strength. Try to get Intuition and Reaction at 4 each(this leaves 30 points under standard chargen. You could leave Charisma 3, pick up Will 3 and Logic 2. Not terrible.) I'd be using Karma, though, since our table is pretty much switching to RC Karmagen.

3 levels of Martial Arts. +2 DV, anything else of choice. I'll say Lv. 2 Muay Thai, and Lv. 1 Tae Kwan Do for Knockdown. Take 6 Manuevers(we'll say Kick Attack, Riposte, Finishing Blow, Set Up, Watchful Guard, and Herding.)

Unarmed Combat(MA): 6(+2)[8+2 modified]


Powers:

Improved Unarmed 2(1)
Imp. Reflex(Geas): 1(1.5)
Mystic Armor Lv. 1(.5)
Killing Hands(.5)
Critical Strike Level 3(.75)
Elemental Strike(Choice, for armor reduction .5)
Attribute Boost(Agl), Lv. 1(.25)
Attribute Boost(Str), Lv. 1(.25)
Improved Gymnastics Lv. 2(.5)
Missile Parry Lv. 1(.25)

So our fellow rolls 16 Unarmed dice(17 with Kick Attack, if he picks it up), and with Hardliners added, hits for a cool 9P Damage unmodified, and halves(or negates, if Sonic), armor. If some points are spent on Edge, then he could burn a point for an extra turn above and beyond his 2 passes. Improved Gymnastics helps his Dodge out, and a 4 Body allows for good armor(with a level of mystic armor.)

OR, you could drop Missile Parry, and one level of Imp. Gymnastics, to take a level of Combat Sense(.5), or an extra level of Mystic Armor. I might do the Combat Sense, myself. Or, once again, ditch them for more Critical Strike levels. Hell, +3 Critical Strike=12P damage. Yeah, i've done it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) )
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sunnyside
post Sep 10 2008, 04:15 PM
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Hacker Adept:

More of an add on package to some other kind of adept. Getting an extra 2-3 dice on Hacking, electronic warefare, or cybercombat only helps in the Matrix but don't cost much either. Enhanced Perception works on both sides of the comlink.

Powers
Improved hacking
Improved electronic warefare(optional)
Improved cybercombat (optional)
Enhanced Perception
After that just have some fun
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Starmage21
post Sep 10 2008, 04:36 PM
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vampires make really sick gunbunny adepts.
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HappyDaze
post Sep 10 2008, 06:33 PM
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QUOTE
vampires make really sick gunbunny adepts.

Not when you consider what you had to give up in spending the 100 BP/200 Karma it took to be a vampire.
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sunnyside
post Sep 10 2008, 08:13 PM
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Pointman

This is the core of a build that's designed to notice and be able to respond to trouble rapidly. I would then couple it with infiltration, being a face, or a general combatant. The bottom line being that they can survive the attempted ambush that would have taken somone else out.

Combat sense (as much as you can get)
Enhanced perception (You have to see that sniper. Glasses and earbuds are used to add the range of vision and sound enhancements)
improved dodge or gymanstics
maybe mystic armor.
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Ears
post Sep 10 2008, 08:49 PM
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"Tryin' to sling a hex at me, spellworm?"

Mystic adept with max counterspelling, spell resistance, combat sense, bod, wil, rea and dodge
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Starmage21
post Sep 11 2008, 12:45 AM
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QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Sep 10 2008, 01:33 PM) *
Not when you consider what you had to give up in spending the 100 BP/200 Karma it took to be a vampire.


But when those 100 points are totally worth it in the case of the gunbunny adept? You can soft-max agility at 7 and reaction at 7 before you bother with adept powers. Not to mention the free init pass.
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Rasumichin
post Sep 11 2008, 01:18 AM
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QUOTE (Starmage21 @ Sep 11 2008, 12:45 AM) *
But when those 100 points are totally worth it in the case of the gunbunny adept? You can soft-max agility at 7 and reaction at 7 before you bother with adept powers. Not to mention the free init pass.


The free init pass doesn't stack, though.
Vampires may be worth the 100 points (if you didn't want to go all dumpstatty, the attribute bonusses will earn you 80BP), but if you get carried away by the possibilities all these increased attribute ratings offer, this easily results in a crippled build when you only have 400BP.
I'd be careful with that option.
Don't blow all your points while you're trying to be better than human and it can work.

Magic will be lower at the start of game, though.

And for the Regeneration and AGI, you're probably better off with a seal shapeshifter anyway if you want to take the "i'm wacky and can regenerate" route.
It's 30 points cheaper, too.
Or even free under karmagen, in contrast to the bloodsucker.

If you can get your GM to allow Shift (Elf) or something like that, it gets even better.
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Sir_Psycho
post Sep 11 2008, 03:59 PM
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I've been toying with the idea of the Face mystic adept.

Start with an elf with a charisma of 8. Pick something Charisma based for drain, like a custom tradition, or the Norse path. The Dragon is a great mentor spirit.

To balance the +2 to Negotiation Dragon gives, get yourself two levels of improved ability (Con). Buying the soft-maxed influence group at 4, you're throwing 14 dice at Con and Negotiation, with 16 if you get First Impression. 12 dice for drain tests, too.

Leave yourself with 3-4 magic for spellcasting. You won't have too many points left for a wide range of spells, but get Increase Reaction to help with your dodge tests, and use bound spirits for concealment, guard and other combat protection. Get some manipulation spells like Influence, Mind Probe, Control Thoughts as well. If you want to splurge then some spells like Physical Mask and Sterilize also come in handy. A few levels in the stealth group also help you become the ultimate silver-tongued chameleon.

The character starts as a very solid Face, and then has a few avenues for expansion. To become a better magician, spend Karma on initiation, Masking metamagic, more spells and adept powers. If you get another magic point, then consider sacrificing it to get some Tailored Pheremones and you become a pornomancer who can cast spells and summon spirits.

For extra points, I'd personally take incompetency in Automatics, Longarms and Pistols. Throw in a party drug addiction like eX or Novacoke and you've got yourself a pretty nice general character.

The main problem I come across is that I want Astral Perception to be a better magician, but it costs a whole power point by RAW. I let the player have it for free, as it's his first game and he's the only magician on the team. Otherwise it's a little handicapped, and you'd be down to 3 magic points to get it.

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Mäx
post Sep 11 2008, 04:06 PM
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QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Sep 11 2008, 06:59 PM) *
I've been toying with the idea of the Face mystic adept.

Start with an elf with a charisma of 8. Pick something Charisma based for drain, like a custom tradition, or the Norse path. The Dragon is a great mentor spirit.

To balance the +2 to Negotiation Dragon gives, get yourself two levels of improved ability (Con). Buying the soft-maxed influence group at 4, you're throwing 14 dice at Con and Negotiation, with 16 if you get First Impression. 12 dice for drain tests, too.

Leave yourself with 3-4 magic for spellcasting. You won't have too many points left for a wide range of spells, but get Increase Reaction to help with your dodge tests, and use bound spirits for concealment, guard and other combat protection. Get some manipulation spells like Influence, Mind Probe, Control Thoughts as well. If you want to splurge then some spells like Physical Mask and Sterilize also come in handy. A few levels in the stealth group also help you become the ultimate silver-tongued chameleon.

The character starts as a very solid Face, and then has a few avenues for expansion. To become a better magician, spend Karma on initiation, Masking metamagic, more spells and adept powers. If you get another magic point, then consider sacrificing it to get some Tailored Pheremones and you become a pornomancer who can cast spells and summon spirits.

For extra points, I'd personally take incompetency in Automatics, Longarms and Pistols. Throw in a party drug addiction like eX or Novacoke and you've got yourself a pretty nice general character.

The main problem I come across is that I want Astral Perception to be a better magician, but it costs a whole power point by RAW. I let the player have it for free, as it's his first game and he's the only magician on the team. Otherwise it's a little handicapped, and you'd be down to 3 magic points to get it.


Personally i would make that character a Dryad, for glamour. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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Starmage21
post Sep 11 2008, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Sep 10 2008, 08:18 PM) *
The free init pass doesn't stack, though.
Vampires may be worth the 100 points (if you didn't want to go all dumpstatty, the attribute bonusses will earn you 80BP), but if you get carried away by the possibilities all these increased attribute ratings offer, this easily results in a crippled build when you only have 400BP.
I'd be careful with that option.
Don't blow all your points while you're trying to be better than human and it can work.

Magic will be lower at the start of game, though.

And for the Regeneration and AGI, you're probably better off with a seal shapeshifter anyway if you want to take the "i'm wacky and can regenerate" route.
It's 30 points cheaper, too.
Or even free under karmagen, in contrast to the bloodsucker.

If you can get your GM to allow Shift (Elf) or something like that, it gets even better.


Its why it works for the gun bunny, and not much else. Even if you opt to replace the free init pass with improved initiative that comes from being an adept (an additional 5 points plus magic increases), then you can get sick on the initiative, toss around 15-17 dice with an assault rifle or other weapon, and still have BPs left over for essential gear and contacts, and skills.

here's what I mean. Extra space comes from cut-n-paste from word doesnt like columns.
[ Spoiler ]
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Kurious
post Sep 11 2008, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Sep 11 2008, 02:18 AM) *
The free init pass doesn't stack, though.
Vampires may be worth the 100 points (if you didn't want to go all dumpstatty, the attribute bonusses will earn you 80BP), but if you get carried away by the possibilities all these increased attribute ratings offer, this easily results in a crippled build when you only have 400BP.


Question/comment:

(I am not 100% certain the context of the above quote, so forgive me if I am misconstruing here).

I am under the impression that 'bonus stats' vampires and other HMHVV infected give you are not "bonuses" per se... they merely augment the caps.


QUOTE
Consult the infected attribute modifier table and adjust the character's attribute minimums and maximums; if any of the character's attributes fall outside these new minimums and maximums, increase of decrease them to conform (rating points reduced are simply lost).


Seeing how many BP you would need to meet the 'soft caps' (mentioned prior), you would have to really look at your character in the long term, instead of the immediate. Though, to be fair, adepts by nature are that way.
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Rasumichin
post Sep 11 2008, 10:04 PM
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QUOTE (Kurious @ Sep 11 2008, 04:50 PM) *
Question/comment:

(I am not 100% certain the context of the above quote, so forgive me if I am misconstruing here).

I am under the impression that 'bonus stats' vampires and other HMHVV infected give you are not "bonuses" per se... they merely augment the caps.


Augmenting the minimums and maximums is...well, what i meant.
Adjusting the minimum upwards means you don't start at 1, adjusting the maximum upwards means you don't have to end at 6.

Where did you get the idea that you have to buy your stats up to the minimum?

I cannot think of any passage in the rules where attribute minimum does not equal attribute starting value.

the last part of the quoted paragraph simply means that if you have a character who is infected in play has at least the new minimum and at best the new maximum.

E.G., if you play a dwarf with CHA 6 and and WIL 2 who is infected with HMHVVI during play and becomes a goblin, he'll have CHA 4 and WIL 4 afterwards.


@ Starmage 21 :
That's an...interesting skill selection.
Who needs Dodge or any melee skill when he's got Reaction 7 and can regenerate? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
"Yeah, i get hit sometimes...but i heal 3 boxes per turn on average, so who cares?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)
Just be careful not to get into any fights in sunlight.
Or with spirits.
Or, god forbid, melee adepts.

But...a combat character with combat paralysis?

Good luck with that, as well as anything that does not involve shooting, infiltrating and preceiving.
Oh, i forgot, Edge 2...so, no good luck for you, either.
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Ol' Scratch
post Sep 11 2008, 10:14 PM
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QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Sep 11 2008, 04:04 PM) *
Augmenting the minimums and maximums is...well, what i meant.
Adjusting the minimum upwards means you don't start at 1, adjusting the maximum upwards means you don't have to end at 6.

Where did you get the idea that you have to buy your stats up to the minimum?

I'd wager it has to do with the Infected Attribute Modifier Table on page 79 of Runner's Companion. They make it look like you get the old-school +X bonus to your attributes and doesn't, just by looking at the table, suggest that it's meant to be an adjustment to your starting metatype's natural attribute scores.

So, for instance, a Human Vampire looks like their Agility would be 1+2/6+2(9+2) rather than 3/9(13). Even though that's not the case.
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TKDNinjaInBlack
post Sep 12 2008, 02:12 AM
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I found a pretty neat combo that I am using with my new mystic adept unarmed virtuoso.

Take Unarmed up to the max and expand it with aptitude.
Do the same with agility (and attribute boost to keep it natural, muscle toner to lose a bit of magic)
Spec in Martial Arts.
Make use of Martial arts maneuvers of Set up, finishing move, full offense, and kick attack.

Take Improved Ability (unarmed) to max out dice pool to attack
Take Improved reflexes (however many levels you can depending on the following rule)
Leave at least one adept point for nerve strike. It doesn't do any damage, so you don't need high strength as this martial artist. With your god pool to attack, any net hits you get reduce either their reaction or agility. This isn't resisted by any kind of pool, so their armor doesn't affect this. If you do well enough with set up, your net hits on set up add themselves to your next attack. Do a finishing move to take your next action as an interrupt and immediately declare you going on full offense. That gives a plus 2 dice and then use a kick for your attack for another plus one. Your pool should be so massive that no matter what opponent you might drop their reaction pool to almost nothing (or their agility for that matter) and leave them either unable to defend against whatever lazy attack you throw next or prevent them from having a massive agility pool to attack you effectively next action. It's a pretty sweet deal.

Couple this with high infiltration to not be seen before you do this and you could end up with a pretty fly bare handed ninja.
I chose to go with mystic adept with one magic point in actual magic to provide spell defense for myself with some pretty good counterspelling.
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ElFenrir
post Sep 12 2008, 08:57 AM
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I like your concept as well. I went the pure damage/armor cutting route, just powering through them. Nerve Strike IS awesome, as you show. It's true your concept has more wiggle room due to not needing a particularly high Strength to work it.

The one thing I did was add Riposte to the mix. With a modified 8 skill, plus 4 reaction, plus whatever you put in Gymnastics Dodge...even without full defense they are defending with a base 12 dice; more than likely resulting in a counterattack...which can be followed with a finishing blow. On full defense, they are defending with that, and whatever their Gymnastics pool is.

Actually, I was tinkering with my other adept...my changeling elf I had mentioned in the one thread. No ware, increased Strength to 7 with adept powers(playing with the houserule of the power costing .5/level.) Due to his legs he gets another +2 damage to his kicks, and +2 Gymnastics tests. Has Imp. Gymnastics +2. 5+2 martial arts(he's not totally twinked to the sky, but 6 agility means he's still awesome), so 5 base dice, plus 4 athletics dice, 4 Reaction dice, +2 Gymnastics for legs, +2 Gymnastics for Imp Gymnastics is 17 dice to full defend.

With Kick Attack, Riposte, Set Up, and Finishing Blow all together...it works well. I think he can technically counterattack with a Set Up, getting a boatload more dice(he throws 14 with kick attack normally), and finish them off with a base damage 11P(or S, of course) Kick...rolling 14 dice plus whatever he rolled on the Set Up. He needs to use up all his attacks to do this(with the borrowing attacks rule) but chances are nothing will make it through that assault.

Counterstrike could always make it into this mix somewhere. I'm pretty sure somewhere around these forums is the Ultimate Counterattacking build, utilizing blades, however, for the super-Riposte-parry-counterattack machine.
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TKDNinjaInBlack
post Sep 13 2008, 11:06 PM
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I just wanted to run this by the top of our list one more time because I was hoping a DEV would make sure I didn't screw up any wording in the rules in my above post. I am going to play this character tonight and would like to make some last minute changes if this isn't a viable strategy (namely crit strike swapped out for nerve strike). Here are the parts I am unsure of...

In the nerve strike passage, it says:

"The adept declares he is using the power and makes
a normal unarmed melee attack. Instead of inflicting damage,
each net hit reduces his opponent’s Agility or Reaction
(attacker’s choice) by 1."

Just to double check, there is no damage resistance test because there is no damage dealt, right?
On top of that, does the defender roll his attribute against the attacker's net hits to determine how many points are lost, because it makes no mention of this in the book.
Truthfully, I like it just as worded (which IIRC says the net hits just subtract from the attribute) because that makes it a kick ass power worth taking ten times over for martial arts adepts.
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Mickle5125
post Sep 13 2008, 11:24 PM
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Many Faces Adept
An adept focused around being different people.
Core Adept Powers:

* Kinesics
* Facial Sculpt
* Melanin Control
* Voice Control
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