Wanted: Ghoul Hunters, Immunity to HMHVV, Own Gun, Some Travel Required Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Switch to: Standard Linear+

[Nifft]

If you were to recruit a team to take out ghoul nests, who would be in it?

Immunity to HMHVV:
- Pixies
- Naga
- Shapeshifters
- Dracoforms
- Free Spirit
- AI + drones

Some Protection from HMHVV:
- Rigger (assumes secure location)
- Mage + Astral Projection

Already Infected:
- PC ghouls?

- - -

I'm putting together an intro one-shot with the idea that it'll show some of the more unlikely stuff in the Runner's Companion. Has anyone run a game themed on ghoul-hunting, and care to share party composition & experiences?

Thanks, -- N

[Karoline]

If you were to recruit a team to take out ghoul nests, who would be in it?

Immunity to HMHVV:
- Shapeshifters
- Dracoforms
- Free Spirit
- AI + drones

Some Protection from HMHVV:
- Rigger (assumes secure location)
- Mage + Astral Projection

Already Infected:
- PC ghouls?

- - -

I'm putting together an intro one-shot with the idea that it'll show some of the more unlikely stuff in the Runner's Companion. Has anyone run a game themed on ghoul-hunting, and care to share party composition & experiences?

Thanks, -- N

I ran a game on the threads here that died out because I couldn't keep up with the work of running it, it was based on a zombie apocalypse scenario. You'd have to go dig through the 'welcome to the shadows' thread for it, last post was likely sometime in... November maybe of last year? Don't even remember what the game was called, but a search for 'zombie apocalypse' might bring it up.

Edit: Here they are.

[TBRMInsanity]

One of the best Vampire hunters in SR history was Martin DeVirus (a Vampire himself). Who knows their prey better then their own? If I was hunting infected though I would go the Mage and Rigger (with a crap load of droids) route myself. You don't want to mess around with HMHVV. I wouldn't even hold back on using FAT III if I could get my hands on it.

[Stahlseele]

complete cyber-replacement.
apply chem-seal to the body itself.

[Karoline]

Only problem with being a vampire hunting vampires is that it is hard to use some of their weaknesses against them. Can't stay out in the sun with them to make sure they dust (Not that they do in SR), or hold a wooden stake. Could still use wooden bullets I suppose.

The real problem with ghouls is that by the rules, the HMHVV is virtually impossible to resist, requiring 24 dice on average to fight off the power 8. It is also spread by simple contact not only with the ghoul itself, but with its blood, spit, or skin.

A sealed suit of armor would likely be the best line of defense for someone that isn't immune that deals with them in person. Military or something like that would be a good idea with a helmet that completely encloses the head. Then they'd have to actually bypass the armor (Deal P damage instead of S) to have any chance of infecting you.

Could throw in those nanites that give you a massive bonus against infections and such.

[Chainsaw Samurai]

HMHVV is ridiculously contagious. I've never agreed it should be simple contact with the ghoul, but more traditionally zombie styled: blood to wound contact, bodily fluid ingestion, or bite wounds. Under those circumstances, I'm alright with the absolutely asinine resistance tests with absolutely no outside help from magic or medicine.

Seriously, think about the current ability of that disease to be spread. Contact with the ghoul? Contact with spit, blood, skin? There is absolutely no way a disease that contagious with no cure or vaccine would be limited to a very small portion of the Seattle population. Especially since these things usually live in the sewers and other similarly dank areas where they have moderate access to the city's water supply. It wouldn't be long before, at a bare minimum, the entirety of the barrens was infected; then they go looking to higher class neighborhoods for food and continue spreading the disease. It is a little asinine as written.

The disease has ridiculous transmission methods and a penetration of neg six. Seriously?

[Stahlseele]

AH allready apologized for that.

[Martin_DeVries_I...]

Only problem with being a vampire hunting vampires is that it is hard to use some of their weaknesses against them. Can't stay out in the sun with them to make sure they dust (Not that they do in SR), or hold a wooden stake. Could still use wooden bullets I suppose....

Very true. My namesakes' best weapon in his fight against vampires was the special magical focus he had, which granted him additional Essence--very useful when fighting creatures that can drain E. Without that I doubt he'd be quite so feared.

Could throw in those nanites that give you a massive bonus against infections and such.

The nanites would be good as you can get them tailored to stop HMHVV. That may be the best bet for a character to avoid getting it.

[Stahlseele]

For technic mass production, go drones.
For magial mass production, go spirits.
For exotic technical, go full body replacement with chem-seal applied to the body directly.
For exotic natural go with any of the above mentioned ways.

[Traul]

Most sapient critters are immune too. A projecting mage or free spirit looks close to an I win button, unless the ghouls have planned serious astral defenses. It will probably be more fun for everyone if you forget those. If you want some spellslinging mojo, use a mystic adept instead.

[Magus]

But Ghouls don't even have the INFECTION power, so you would not really have to worry about that.

[Stahlseele]

They don't need that power.
They are carriers of HMHVV.
And that Disease has the contact vector.
After all, there is a quality of sterile carrier.
And that was one of the differences between NPCritter and PC ghouls under SR3, PC ghouls did not have infection, NPCritter ghouls did.

[Nifft]

Most sapient critters are immune too. A projecting mage or free spirit looks close to an I win button, unless the ghouls have planned serious astral defenses. It will probably be more fun for everyone if you forget those. If you want some spellslinging mojo, use a mystic adept instead.

Awesome, thanks: Pixie, Naga, and Centaur look good. Well, actually Centaur looks like it could be a bit unwieldy if the team had to sneak anywhere... hmm.

I see a lot of pixie builds around here, so those must be decent, right?

How is the Naga in play? Seems to have armor issues, if recent threads are any indication.

[Mordinvan]

Only problem with being a vampire hunting vampires is that it is hard to use some of their weaknesses against them. Can't stay out in the sun with them to make sure they dust (Not that they do in SR), or hold a wooden stake. Could still use wooden bullets I suppose.

The real problem with ghouls is that by the rules, the HMHVV is virtually impossible to resist, requiring 24 dice on average to fight off the power 8. It is also spread by simple contact not only with the ghoul itself, but with its blood, spit, or skin.

A sealed suit of armor would likely be the best line of defense for someone that isn't immune that deals with them in person. Military or something like that would be a good idea with a helmet that completely encloses the head. Then they'd have to actually bypass the armor (Deal P damage instead of S) to have any chance of infecting you.

Could throw in those nanites that give you a massive bonus against infections and such.

Since the virus takes a while to change you, ride a suborbital once infected, to kill the virus off by exposing it to space.

[Starmage21]

Dont forget the other infected. Vampires and such are immune to kreiger HMHVV

[Stahlseele]

Since the virus takes a while to change you, ride a suborbital once infected, to kill the virus off by exposing it to space.

you know . . i don't think anyone actually ever thought of that yet O.o

[The Jopp]

I would hire this man...

meet the preacher

[Karoline]

you know . . i don't think anyone actually ever thought of that yet O.o

Maybe they have, the problem is that a sub-orbital flight would be expensive, the other problem is it still might not kill the virus because the person carrying it might provide enough to sustain it even if they are in deep space.

[Johnny Hammersti...]

It isn't much fun, but an caster who can project is and is specialized in astral combat is all you'll ever need.

[Stahlseele]

Well, Space is a what?
A-10? -12? Mana-Ebb?
Dunno if Background-Count would be enough for the same effect . .
If that were the case, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Auschwitz and other such places would be the best places for stopping such things . .

[Karoline]

It isn't much fun, but an caster who can project is and is specialized in astral combat is all you'll ever need.

Astral combat?

Just stunbolt them from 100m, keep hitting till they get close, then fly strait up 100m and laugh hysterically as they run for cover. A duel natured creature's biggest fear is an astral entity with a ranged attack.

[Badmoodguy88]

As for HMHVV in the water supply. Take the scary virus of our day: HIV. It is easy to kill outside of a person, and it can not survive long outside of body fluids or excrement. Even then it is like 2-3 days tops unless you have a pool of blood thing going on. A lot of other viruses are a LOT more resilient to heat, cold, and age.

[Johnny Hammersti...]

Astral combat?

Just stunbolt them from 100m, keep hitting till they get close, then fly strait up 100m and laugh hysterically as they run for cover. A duel natured creature's biggest fear is an astral entity with a ranged attack.

Sure, this is assuming ghouls have little in the way of tactics or brains. I'd think most ghouls who have brains left would gather around awakened ghouls and have tactics to not get slaughtered by astral attackers (wards, spirits, casters)

[Karoline]

Sure, this is assuming ghouls have little in the way of tactics or brains. I'd think most ghouls who have brains left would gather around awakened ghouls and have tactics to not get slaughtered by astral attackers (wards, spirits, casters)

But how many ghouls are awakened? Does the 0.1% from metahumans hold true? In that case, it shouldn't be hard to take out a few hundred ghouls before even seeing a mage ghoul. Similarly, not alot of mages are going to want to work for ghouls to set up astral defenses for them.

And even against an awakened ghoul, the projecting mage will be at an advantage because she can simply drop into the earth or pass through a wall so that the ghoul can't target her, then pop out to blast and go right back into hiding.

Edit: Besides, the ghoul mage is going to be just as big a problem in meat as in astral, so may as well fight the mage where only the mage can really fight, and not the other ghouls.

[Stahlseele]

Technically, they are ALL awakened . .
Just about the same percentage as in the rest of the population of earth in 2060/2070 is also able to cast spells and summon spirits.

[Karoline]

Technically, they are ALL awakened . .
Just about the same percentage as in the rest of the population of earth in 2060/2070 is also able to cast spells and summon spirits.

Didn't think having a magic attribute was the same as being awakened. Could be wrong about that, fluff terminology isn't my strong suit.

[Stahlseele]

They are also all dual natured as to both the fluff and the rules if i remember correcty.
Every single ghoul can astrally perceive as well as any adept or mage, nay, even better, as they don't get the -2 dice / +2TN to actions while using their astral perception, because to them IT'S NATURAL.
And the fluff is, as so often, not wholly cohesive in what counts as awakened or not . . sometimes even a metahuman counts as being awakened, or a surgeling. or any kind of critter that came to by because of magic, even if they have no active or passive magic at all, not even a magic attribute as per the rules . . and sometimes, everything with a magic attribute of at least 1 is awakaned . . other times it's only awakened if it can actively or passively make use of some kind of magical effect like spell casting or summoning or shape change or regeneration or any kind of spirit/critter power . .

[Karoline]

They are also all dual natured as to both the fluff and the rules if i remember correcty.
Every single ghoul can astrally perceive as well as any adept or mage, nay, even better, as they don't get the -2 dice / +2TN to actions while using their astral perception, because to them IT'S NATURAL.

Yeah, they're duel natured, but still, I thought you required adept/ma/mage to be considered awakened. Like I said, could be totally wrong. Critters with a magic attribute that aren't spellcasters are called paranormal, while those that can cast spells or something similar are called awakened. Could be wrong about that though, been a while since I read RW.

[Stahlseele]

Awakened plants?

[Karoline]

Awakened plants?

Can totally cast spells (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

They just.... only effect other plants?

Okay, so yeah, guess it is either the magic attribute or being duel natured. So yeah, they're all awakened, but only a few can cast spells, which is my point. 999 out of 1000 you can stunbolt a couple times from a distance before you have to deal with one that can actually do anything to you.

[Doc Byte]

If you were to recruit a team to take out ghoul nests, who would be in it?

A squad of Jarheads. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Karoline]

A squad of Jarheads. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

I am so and so, of the clan Jarhead?

[Karoline]

If you were to recruit a team to take out ghoul nests, who would be in it?

Oh, and also, a team that doesn't want to be paid up front (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Udoshi]

I'm pretty sure a Free Spirit would own face at ghoul hunting.

Ghouls can't really do anything about their dual natured ness. A spirit, on the other hand, can zip around on the astral plane tossing LOS mana spells, causing Fear, Confusion (they are mana powers) against anything astrally percieving, while enjoying its extra astral passes and initiative.

Healing stun damage(such as drain) is a body+Willpower, 1 hour extended test. When a spirit's had enough, they just pop over to a beach, have a drink, and relax. Rush job that healing test, don't worry about glitches due to guard, heal some drain, then get back to popping ghoul heads.

Like an astral jet fighter, with an unlimited supply of missiles and a half hour restock time.

[Ascalaphus]

I think Awakened is just a fluff word, with no real meaningful rules meaning.

Ghouls' always-on dual-naturedness makes them easy targets indeed. A good reason for them to hide, hide, hide from say, Lone Star fire elemental summoners. It basically means that anyone who can summon spirits of non-negligible Force can provide decent long-term protection to a neighborhood.

[Udoshi]

That, and its kind of hard to hide from Search.

[Doc Byte]

I am so and so, of the clan Jarhead?

Yeh, something like 7 of 9.

"Yo, we've some Ghouls in the basement."
"What you're waitin' for? Go take 'em out!"
"Me? You're nuts? Send the full-borgs!"

[Yerameyahu]

I agree that projecting mages or astral spirits are all you need, unless they've cleverly 'lost' their Dual Nature. Poor ghouls.

[CanRay]

A squad of Jarheads. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

I think I made a comment earlier about not daring US Marines to do something. I'm sure the UCAS/CAS Marine Corps continue that particular tradition...

[Chainsaw Samurai]

I think I made a comment earlier about not daring US Marines to do something. I'm sure the UCAS/CAS Marine Corps continue that particular tradition...

Pretty sure he's referring to the other kind of "jarheads," cyborgs.

Although a Rigurai (Rigger piloting a modified Cyborg body and fulfilling a Street Sam's role with it) would work too. Hard part is getting around the astronomical availability rating. Of course that "hard part" seems a hell of a lot easier than raising an army of proper cyborg "jarheads."

[CanRay]

Or you could just get the Marines to do it for beer.

I hear they're like the Canadian Armed Forces like that. "They'll take any position and defeat any enemy if there's beer for them at the end." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Udoshi]

I agree that projecting mages or astral spirits are all you need, unless they've cleverly 'lost' their Dual Nature. Poor ghouls.

Is there any way to do this in game, besides burning out? Perhaps one of those funky spells that remove a sense?

[Karoline]

Is there any way to do this in game, besides burning out? Perhaps one of those funky spells that remove a sense?

Think burnout is the only way, not that it is exceptionally hard to do, they just have to get a single implant, though they might have trouble finding someone to work on them... maybe a ghoul street doc (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Even if they had their astral perception sense removed, they'd still be duel natured.

Edit: Of course, they're blind without astral perception, so they would be unlikely to be particularly thrilled about being burnt out.

[Yerameyahu]

I don't think so, no. Even if you removed the astral sense, they're still *there* on the astral, right?

[Karoline]

I don't think so, no. Even if you removed the astral sense, they're still *there* on the astral, right?

Yep.

[sabs]

so they can be gunned down like dogs from Astral, without being able to do a damn thing about it.

WHy does these guys even exist?
You could wipe out the entire Ghoul Population in a city with 2 spirits

[Udoshi]

Why not? The same technique, on an astrally percieving mage, would just shut off his astral sight, wouldn't it?

Dual natured people are just folks who astrally percieves -all- the time, and can't turn it off. (at least in this edition. It was probably different before)

[Yerameyahu]

That's what I'm saying, sabs. I guess the burnouts are maintaining the population.

Udoshi, I don't think that's that case. The two are equivalent, sometimes, but it makes more sense that Dual-Natured things are things the *exist* on both planes at once (have an astral form instead of a shadow). It just logically follows that things existing on the astral have astral perception. When metahumans sneak on with their Astral Perception, they become temporarily *like* Dual-Natured things. It always bothered me that they didn't make the distinction clearer.

[Mordinvan]

Maybe they have, the problem is that a sub-orbital flight would be expensive, the other problem is it still might not kill the virus because the person carrying it might provide enough to sustain it even if they are in deep space.

The virus will likely have a magic score of less then 6, getting it into a -6 background count WILL kill/cripple it. After that, standard anti-virals will work, since it has no supernatural component left to it.

[Chainsaw Samurai]

The virus will likely have a magic score of less then 6, getting it into a -6 background count WILL kill/cripple it. After that, standard anti-virals will work, since it has no supernatural component left to it.

By that method of thinking then the virus should be targetable from the astral plane, hypothetically through the carrier's body. I don't think that is the case.

I don't think it's meant to be cured, however I also don't think it's meant to be so ridiculously contagious. I especially don't like the "whelp... you're screwed" feeling of being infected, compounded by the fact that the Runner's Companion then expects you to spend your next 100 karma to turn into something you didn't want to have anything to do with in the first place.

Psh... some Companion. With friends like that...

[Mordinvan]

By that method of thinking then the virus should be targetable from the astral plane, hypothetically through the carrier's body. I don't think that is the case.

I don't think it's meant to be cured, however I also don't think it's meant to be so ridiculously contagious. I especially don't like the "whelp... you're screwed" feeling of being infected, compounded by the fact that the Runner's Companion then expects you to spend your next 100 karma to turn into something you didn't want to have anything to do with in the first place.

Psh... some Companion. With friends like that...

Ya, I'm not a fan of the infection during game play rules either. The bonuses for being a ghoul are pretty good, but the social draw backs of being an infected mutant cannibal are horrendous, and the idea that anyone would allow a power 8, contact vector zombie plague anywhere near a city, letalone granting it citizenship is beyond stupid.

[Chainsaw Samurai]

Agreed.

"oooh but Ghouls are people too!"

Exactly, and their community will fit in just fine right next to the leper colonies on whatever remote area.

EDIT: Seriously it isn't even just the Power 8 (as if that wasn't bad enough), what the hell is up with Penetration -6? Do Ghouls have acid blood or something?

[Zormal]

Karoline mentioned nanites. O-cells "reduce the Power of any viral or bacterial pathogens that infect the host by its rating", and come with a maximum rating of 9.

Hands down, the best way to shake off HMHVV after you get infected. Rating 8 O-cells cost 20 000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (2 500 x 8 ) and give you full immunity. Dirt cheap, when you consider the alternative.

The only downside is that it makes you immune to everything else out there. Oh well...

[Ascalaphus]

Well, we know the absurd infectiousness of ghouls is a writing "accident". Ghouls being dual-natured isn't really an accident, but maybe they accidentally forgot to give ghouls a means of defending themselves from astral attacks?

But extremely aggressive reproduction rates do balance out extreme vulnerability, in the way that vermin and diseases manage to avoid extinction...

[Johnny Hammersti...]

Sorry, I should have expressed that better. What I mean to say is this:

Its clear that ghouls with out spellcaster support (they're all awakened) are always going to be dead meat.

therefore, the ghouls worth hunting, worth sending shadowrunners after, probably are a step above the kind of ghouls that are running pell-mell as some apprentice shaman bombards them with stunbolts from the astral.

Wards, spirits, etc.

[darthmord]

Since the virus takes a while to change you, ride a suborbital once infected, to kill the virus off by exposing it to space.

Wouldn't a high power Mana Static also work?

[Stahlseele]

Good question . .
Technically, a Background Count is a positive but aspekted away from you mana environment.
You would need a Mana-Ebb to kill something magical i think . .

[CanRay]

"oooh but Ghouls are people too!"

They are people that EAT OTHER PEOPLE.

That tends to colour any support they'd get. Cannibalism is such a... Tricky thing.

[Grinder]

Ah, minor details as some would say. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[CanRay]

Ah, minor details as some would say. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Oh, I'm sure there are groups out there that will make it a major deal.

I mean, hell, there are folks out there that burn crosses just because there are short people in the world!

[sabs]

And not only do they eat other people, but if they go too long without eating, they lose control over their willpower and go on a killing rampage.

[Karoline]

Karoline mentioned nanites. O-cells "reduce the Power of any viral or bacterial pathogens that infect the host by its rating", and come with a maximum rating of 9.

Hands down, the best way to shake off HMHVV after you get infected. Rating 8 O-cells cost 20 000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (2 500 x 8 ) and give you full immunity. Dirt cheap, when you consider the alternative.

The only downside is that it makes you immune to everything else out there. Oh well...

Well, the actual downside is that each time they do this, their rating drops by one. So if you have rating 8 O-cells and get hit four times, the first time it will negate it completely, the second it will drop it to power 1 (very doable) then a power 2 (Getting a little tight) and finally only to power 3 (Which is starting to get very difficult for non-trolls). The O-cells will regenerate, but only at a rate of something like 1 rating/week with a nanohive. So yeah, maybe grab a second injection of the stuff for when your main O-cells start to die off, and make sure both are full rating 9. That's a fair chunk of change, but it you make a living off hunting ghouls or something, it is likely to pay off (And it helps that it works on other things too for when you aren't ghoul hunting)

[Mordinvan]

Wouldn't a high power Mana Static also work?

Not sure if mana static can kill anything other then spirits, if it can, then sure.

[Zormal]

Well, the actual downside is that each time they do this, their rating drops by one. ...

Ah! I totally forgot about dropping the rating. That makes it a lot more balanced.
Very good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Edit: Actually... could someone point me to the right page for this rule? Can't seem to locate it...

[Karoline]

Ah! I totally forgot about dropping the rating. That makes it a lot more balanced.
Very good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Edit: Actually... could someone point me to the right page for this rule? Can't seem to locate it...

Hmm, actually it is nantidotes that do that, I just figured the rule continued to hold true for O-cells as well. I think I put it as a house rule for my L4D game.

[Ascalaphus]

Well, to be fair, if a ghoul touches you four times, it's probably just torn you to shreds. Because that means you gave it time to take 4 Complex Actions for melee attacks! More than enough time to kill it with a proper cleanse-the-unholy gun.

[Karoline]

Well, to be fair, if a ghoul touches you four times, it's probably just torn you to shreds. Because that means you gave it time to take 4 Complex Actions for melee attacks! More than enough time to kill it with a proper cleanse-the-unholy gun.

Well, I'm thinking multiple ghoul encounters over the span of an extermination or something as opposed letting a ghoul gnaw on you for a minute or two to prove how tough you are.

[Ascalaphus]

Well, I'm thinking multiple ghoul encounters over the span of an extermination or something as opposed letting a ghoul gnaw on you for a minute or two to prove how tough you are.

True.. better carry some booster packs with nanites then I guess? Cost of doing business and all.

Hmm. Can you even put nanites into autoinjectors?

[Stahlseele]

Well, to be fair, if a ghoul touches you four times, it's probably just torn you to shreds. Because that means you gave it time to take 4 Complex Actions for melee attacks! More than enough time to kill it with a proper cleanse-the-unholy gun.

Technically, no . .
Your own close combat action hitting the ghoul also counts as touching . .
Hence: "WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD WILLINGLY ENTER CLOSE-COMBAT WITH A GHOUL?"

[Mordinvan]

True.. better carry some booster packs with nanites then I guess? Cost of doing business and all.

Hmm. Can you even put nanites into autoinjectors?

So long as they are typed for your body, and in an appropriate suspension, I see no reason why not. I mean you can do it to nanocutters right?

[Chainsaw Samurai]

I was going to make a comment continuing the conversation about melee combat with A ghoul.

Where the heck are you guys finding A ghoul? If it were as easy as A ghoul, I wouldn't have such a beef with the infection rules as they stand.

We're really talking about three ghouls flailing at you at once while you attempt in vain to make one melee attack to fend them off.

I hate ghouls, I hate dealing with them, I hate their silly overpowered diseases, I hate that that disease costs you 100 karma when it is thrust upon you without your consent. I don't even deal with ghouls! I have a ghoul 'chop shop' as a contact make bodies disappear, but I don't even expect any cash from harvested 'ware.

I drive up, slow down just enough to kick the body out the door and keep going. I throw a little note on the body that they can read when it comes to a tumbling, twisted halt.

Dear Freaks,

Here, have some food. You guys like food, right?

Consider it a favor to pay for "protection" from you and your kind.

XOXO,
Socrates.

P.S. Stay the *#*# away from me Ugo!

[sabs]

My attitude on hunting ghouls:

you blow the building up with c4
once the explosions stop, you pour gasoline all over the demolition site, and you set it on fire.
You wait for the fire to go out, and then you blow the place up with c4 again.

Then you get your mage friend to summon a few spirits and bind them to kill any ghouls they see.

[Yerameyahu]

You *shouldn't* expect cash from harvested 'ware.

[Mordinvan]

I'd also be more polite in my letter really.

[Chainsaw Samurai]

I'd also be more polite in my letter really.

What?

I gave them "hugs and kisses," I'm sure that is as polite as they've gotten in a long time. I'm like their best friend that never, ever, under any circumstances, wants to see them.

Right?

[Ascalaphus]

Technically, no . .
Your own close combat action hitting the ghoul also counts as touching . .
Hence: "WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD WILLINGLY ENTER CLOSE-COMBAT WITH A GHOUL?"

I was kinda fishing for that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Ghouls do trigger my "kill it with fire!" sentiments. Well, I appreciate the existence in the setting, but I'm having difficulty with the Ghoul Rights thing. I imagine even most hardened criminals think the world would be a nicer place without ghouls.

[Karoline]

I'd also be more polite in my letter really.

Why? It isn't like they can read (being blind and all).

[X-Kalibur]

I know that AH has apologized for his work on HMHVV in Runner's Companion, but was it one of the items he sent in errata for in the German version? If so, what was the fix or what was it supposed to be if it was finalized?

[Stahlseele]

dunno if he actually did send in Errata for his stuff to germany, but i guess the simple fix would be to make it injection vector . .
This means as long as the ghoul does no physical damage with a close combat attack, you simply do not get sick . .
Well, at least as long as you don't have open wounds around ghouls . . but then, if you do, you are in trouble anyway . .

[Ascalaphus]

And/or reduce the power? 8 is rather a lot..

[Stahlseele]

*shrugs*
maybe.
Under SR3, Ghoulism was easy to cure.
Easier than the common cold to be exact.

[Five Eyes]

What?

I gave them "hugs and kisses," I'm sure that is as polite as they've gotten in a long time. I'm like their best friend that never, ever, under any circumstances, wants to see them.

Ghoul HMHVV is so ridiculously contagious that I bet you're at risk of infection even with purely metaphorical hugs.

[Shrike30]

Chem-sealed, fireproofed, respirator-equipped chainmail with added ballistic plates and a Shriketek RaID-2 (mag-fed burst-capable shotgun with an underbarrel flamethrower nozzle) would be a good way to start out. Without going the exotic breed route (something immune to disease) or the O-cells route (which might conflict with the written description of there being no way to mitigate HMHVV's effects), keeping from making "contact" with something you're trying to kill is probably your best route. That, and bringing friends for if/when you get knocked down.

Other good approaches:

• Burn the building from outside.
• Drive an armored bulldozer into the building with your friends firing through the hole you've just made.
• Nerve gas.
• Drones.
• Close combat training and a tactical network.
• Snipers/yahoos with hunting rifles.

Interestingly, blowing up the building is a bad plan... throwing bits of infectious ghoul all over a three block radius is bad. Burning might have the same problem, but if your accelerants burn hot enough, it's less of an issue.

[The Jopp]

Hmm.

Feral Ghouls are Critters right?

Pimp out a ghoul with bioware and a stirrup interface and let your feral remote control ghoul hunt ghouls for you.

[Yerameyahu]

That's a very expensive drone!

[sabs]

I'd go with 2 Crimson Samurai, with Walker mods.
One with Heavy Machine gun, one with Flame Thrower.

Herd with suppression fire, kill with actual fire.
They come with 12 points of hardened armor. Against a Ghoul, that's some nice stuff.

[The Jopp]

That's a very expensive drone!

Well, I could always go with a Doberman with Monofiliament Chainsaw, target recognition program (Ghoul identification) and let them loose in a ghoul home.

Add theft protection with electric shocks

[Ryu]

What do you mean light doesn´t hurt SR ghouls? Bring a bunch of drones armed with ARES MP3 Lasers. Little to no blood will be shed.

[Stahlseele]

Wel, THAT kind of Light will hurt most everybody . .
But no, ghouls don't suffer from a light allery like most everything else with HMHVV . .

Also, what's to stop ghouls from simply tipping over the drone?

[Yerameyahu]

Getting shot, I assume.

[BishopMcQ]

Anyone who takes the Carrier 5 pt negative quality for HMHVV, can safely hunt ghouls. They spread the disease but as carriers are immune to it themselves.

[Rubic]

Anyone who takes the Carrier 5 pt negative quality for HMHVV, can safely hunt ghouls. They spread the disease but as carriers are immune to it themselves.

There are 3 strains of HMHVV. As per the write up of Carrier in RC, you only get immunity to ONE of those strains per Carrier quality, with the possibility that it will, at any time (depending on backstory or how much of a bas jerk your GM is) evolve into one of the others. Take it 3 times along with 15 BP to be sure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Additionally, Dual-Natured beings such as Ghouls and Dragons exist on both the physical world and Astral Plane at the same time, and are able to INTERACT with both. What this means is that your astrally projecting mage will NOT be immune to harm, just immune to infection. Any non-feral ghoul with any sense will bolt for a narrow corridor or room which would force your mage to be within potential striking distance. No, you are not risking infection. Yes, you are risking a muckle of angry ghouls who can see you. Yes, you'd better hope you can ditch to a metaplane or else you might just be held in place and curb stomped. Just, y'know, fyi

[Stahlseele]

Splash/Smoke-Grenades filled with FAB(something) . .
It will eat the ghouls alive, see how they like a taste of their own medicine . .

[CanRay]

Ghetto Drone Combat!

This Old Drone's Ferret RPD-V1 Perimeter Drone, remove the Searchlight, add on a Lawnmower at a 90° angle, probably add on an extra "Fuel" tank to handle the extra electricity needed as insurance. Bonus points if you do it with the power of duct tape!

BTW: I just got "Dead Rising 2" back from loaning it to a friend.

[Christian Lafay]

So say you do hunt down ghouls for a bounty... How the hell would you collect for each kill? Proof of death, as it were. It's not like bringing in Zip-Loc bag full of fake pointy ears for taking out elf-posers.

[CanRay]

So say you do hunt down ghouls for a bounty... How the hell would you collect for each kill? Proof of death, as it were. It's not like bringing in Zip-Loc bag full of fake pointy ears for taking out elf-posers.

Severed heads in a watertight burlap bag.

Nothing like traditional bounty hunting!

[Christian Lafay]

Severed heads in a watertight burlap bag.

Nothing like traditional bounty hunting!

Which gets rid of a lot of the KILL IT WITH FIRE attitude. Unless they have a distinct skull and you are recreating John Carpenter's Vampires. And even then walking through in extreme HazMat gear to collect heads? Gonna need a drone for that too.

[Lantzer]

Use a jar-head cyborg.

Totally immune to HMHVV.
Fast as heck in a fight.
And looks like nothing special on the astral.

Remember your average ghoul is blind on the physical. All he'll get on a jar-head is a boring astral shadow, in a world filled with boring stral shadows.

For a much cheaper version, a drone rigger with a few repeater drones could do something similiar. The cyborg's big benefit is that he's immune to jamming.

[CanRay]

Which gets rid of a lot of the KILL IT WITH FIRE attitude. Unless they have a distinct skull and you are recreating John Carpenter's Vampires. And even then walking through in extreme HazMat gear to collect heads? Gonna need a drone for that too.

Ever seen the art for them?

No mistaking them for anything else.

At least you don't have the skin the bloody thing like they demand in Quebec. (Pelts, baby!)

[HunterHerne]

There are 3 strains of HMHVV. As per the write up of Carrier in RC, you only get immunity to ONE of those strains per Carrier quality, with the possibility that it will, at any time (depending on backstory or how much of a bas jerk your GM is) evolve into one of the others. Take it 3 times along with 15 BP to be sure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I was under the impression that each of the three HMHVV strains had a different make-up for each species (a human can be carrier for a Harvester strain, but wouldn't be affected by it anyway). I was also under the impression that any of the species with the infection power can't be carriers, as you either have it and are a vampire, or you had it and are dead. (Infection only possibly occurs when your essence is reduced to 0)