Help to settle a little argument, Members of my group can't settle it sooo... Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Switch to: Standard Linear+

[phillosopherp]

All right so me and my group of players got into an argument of how Tir Tairngire is supposed to be pronounced. Of course I realize that no one on here can say it for us or anything but I am hoping that I can get some folks that know how to do the whole dictionary type thing for pronouncing the name. I can't handle it anymore when I say it one way and one side of the table starts in and when I say it the other way that the other side goes nuts. Please someone help to definitively settle this for us. Thanks!

[Badmoodguy88]

Probably not at all definitive but I found this.
http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-307444.html

[Conspiracy X]

Tír Tairngire: shir sha-irn-gi-rā

Straight from the 6th World Almanac.

Hope that helps.

[Red_Cap]

Tír Tairngire: shir sha-irn-gi-rā

Straight from the 6th World Almanac.

Hope that helps.

It helped me, for sure. I've been calling it Teer Taern-guy-er this whole time.

[Ed_209a]

Tír Tairngire: shir sha-irn-gi-rā

Straight from the 6th World Almanac.

Hope that helps.

Both of the Tirs are Gaelic names, right? I've long thought that Gaelic transliteration is a practical joke on the rest of the English-speaking world.

[nezumi]

I've always said it "Teer Ta-*mumble mumble mumble*".

[BlueMax]

Tear Tangerine.

Ain't never going to pronounce dandelion eater land jr any other way.

BlueMax

[tete]

Tír Tairngire: shir sha-irn-gi-rā

Straight from the 6th World Almanac.

Really? I find that really odd seeing how everyone I've known always says Tear... Is there an older book that says Shir to? I'm going to laugh if I had missed this for years!

Tear Tangerine.

This is the way I have been saying it forever (not that I'm correct)

[Yerameyahu]

Actually, that's a *great* point: there's no reason the rest of the world would pronounce it 'correctly' (as a Tir native). English, for example, has an illustrious history of mispronouncing country names (and everything else). So… the most authentic pronunciation is 'teer tan-gear', or 'teer tare-n gyre', or however your brain wants! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[phillosopherp]

It helped me, for sure. I've been calling it Teer Taern-guy-er this whole time.

Just for the record this is how I have always pronounced it myself and probably always will, but at least I can now tell both my asshat players that they were both wrong!!

[Acme]

... Oh my lord, it never stops for Oregon, does it, even in the future. Even when we change the name people still get the pronunciation wrong. (Granted, I still pronounce the T's in TT so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

[TommyTwoToes]

Tear Tangerine.

Between this and Egg Na Nog, you have them beat.

[Kruger]

I always pronounced it Teer Tairn-guyer, but that's because it never really factored into any of our games and was just bad fluff from 1e.

[BlueMax]

... Oh my lord, it never stops for Oregon, does it, even in the future. Even when we change the name people still get the pronunciation wrong. (Granted, I still pronounce the T's in TT so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

Oh where, Oh where has Ori gone?

BlueMax

[Acme]

Wait, you consider TT bad fluff?

[Cabral]

I think there was a website with Gaelic pronunciation .wav files for Shadowrun, but I don't recall the site or if it is even still around.

So, resorting to Google: Beginner's Guide to Irish Gaelic

From that guide it would be:
Tir : chir (roll the "r")
Tairngire : chairangire (roll the "r", "a" inserted between "r" and "n" per "double constant" section of above guide; make wild guesses at syllables ...)

[tete]

I always knew elves were leprechauns... The Shamrocks are back in the Barrens!

[X-Kalibur]

I always knew elves were leprechauns... The Tamroks are back in the Barrens!

FTFY =)

[MJBurrage]

Aside from the Sixth World Almanac, I could not find another Shadowrun source that gives a pronunciation.

Both Tír na nÓg and Tir Tairngire are real world terms, and all the related sources I have seen support the "T" sounding like "t" not "sh".

So absent another source, I would ignore the 6WA pronunciations.

[Cabral]

Aside from the Sixth World Almanac, I could not find another Shadowrun source that gives a pronunciation.

Both Tír na nÓg and Tir Tairngire are real world terms, and all the related sources I have seen support the "T" sounding like "t" not "sh".

So absent another source, I would ignore the 6WA pronunciations.

The link you posted refer to Celtic sources, which, if I am not mistaken, is related to, but different than, Gaelic. As the Sixth World Almanac is similar to Gaelic pronunciation I cobbled together above, I would guess the pronunciation could have been put together by someone with a greater grasp of Gaelic than the beginner's guide represents.

So, absent a more definitive reference for Gaelic, I wouldn't be so quick to discount the authors.

Edit: Wiki article explaining the branches of the Celtic Languages, focusing on the Gaelic branch.

[tete]

"If" Shadowrun Elven (Spethireal) is Irish Gaelic it would be Ch, not Sh. The author is either making up his own thing based on Irish Gaelic (likely, cus you know they are elves not irish) or was confused. My source is a buddy who speaks Irish Gaelic but I'll let you look it up yourself as the internet seams to agree with him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Also since Irish Gaelic and Spethireal are both language options in older editions I would say they are not the same thing. Heck they are not even in the same language family! So there fore it shouldn't be anything like Irish Gaelic.

[Aaron]

To make that 't' sound, put your tongue in the position it would be to make an English 't' sound (maybe a tiny bit further back if you want to be all accurate) and blow air around your tongue rather than down the middle. This will sound a lot like an English 'ch' sound.

Yes, IAAL (linguist, in this case).

And yes, I'm cunning, thanks. Stop that.

[X-Kalibur]

To make that 't' sound, put your tongue in the position it would be to make an English 't' sound (maybe a tiny bit further back if you want to be all accurate) and blow air around your tongue rather than down the middle. This will sound a lot like an English 'ch' sound.

Yes, IAAL (linguist, in this case).

And yes, I'm cunning, thanks. Stop that.

Does that mean I can't make a joke about felatious arguments?

[tete]

Does that mean I can't make a joke about felatious arguments?

Yes

[Yerameyahu]

Woot, linguists represent! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm quantitative socio, which may inform my 'however people decide to pronounce it is correct' stance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Daylen]

I always thought it was Tir Tairngiskia.

[Abstruse]

My pronunciation for years (using English words): Tier Tay-urn-guy-err

Pronunciation according to Sixth World Almanac: Shear shane-guy-ray

And the only people that would use the former pronunciation if the latter is correct are anti-elf (or at least anti-Tir) elements attempting to be derisive. Media in the 6th world is far more audio-visual than text based (in fact, in 3rd ed, you were considered to have read/write skill of 1/2 of whatever your spoken skill in the language was due to this). So odds are, the more common derisive way to pronounce the countries' names would probably end up being a crappy pun based on the word "shear".

[Saint Sithney]

What? Rather than some sort of Oregon Trail of Tirs joke?

[Mäx]

Also since Irish Gaelic and Spethireal are both language options in older editions I would say they are not the same thing.

Definedly not the same language as 6WA list for Tir na Nog both Irish Gaelic and Irish Sperethiel as the nations primary languages after english.
Also apparently Irish Sperethiel is different from Sperethiel that is listted as Tir Tairngires official langue.

[Voran]

teeer tan guy-ar.

Also, not to be confused with Tyr Tan GUYVER!

[Yerameyahu]

I wouldn't immediately say it's anti-Elf to 'mispronounce' Tir Tairngire. It *could* be, if it were intentional, and in the right context, and using the correct tone of voice/facial expression/etc.

[Doc Chase]

I wouldn't immediately say it's anti-Elf to 'mispronounce' Tir Tairngire. It *could* be, if it were intentional, and in the right context, and using the correct tone of voice/facial expression/etc.

I dunno, pronouncing it "Dandy Land" or "Keebstown" might get the point across no matter what you tone was. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

No, those are legitimate dialectal variants in certain cultural centers. CAS, for example. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It's all they know, they learn it as children.

[tete]

Definedly not the same language as 6WA list for Tir na Nog both Irish Gaelic and Irish Sperethiel as the nations primary languages after english.
Also apparently Irish Sperethiel is different from Sperethiel that is listted as Tir Tairngires official langue.

So does that mean even the elves argue about how to say it? Irish Sperethiel vs Sperethiel?

[Nows7]

"The Oregon Elf place" and "The Irish Elf place"

Or

"Tir Oregon" and "Tir Ireland"

[crash2029]

... Oh my lord, it never stops for Oregon, does it, even in the future. Even when we change the name people still get the pronunciation wrong. (Granted, I still pronounce the T's in TT so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

Tell me about it. I was born in Portland and now I live in Eastern Washington. I cannot count the times I have heard Ore-ee-gone or Warshington. And since I live in Eastern Washington I get to hear Spo-cane alot. Then again it took me awhile to figure out how to pronounce Puyallup.

As for the Tir business I always pronounce it Tear Tare-n-gear. I have a friend who cannot pronounce Sperethiel. It always comes out S-fur-reth-ree-al. My Dad taught me to pronounce Sidhe and foci.

[tete]

Tell me about it. I was born in Portland and now I live in Eastern Washington. I cannot count the times I have heard Ore-ee-gone or Warshington. And since I live in Eastern Washington I get to hear Spo-cane alot. Then again it took me awhile to figure out how to pronounce Puyallup.

As for the Tir business I always pronounce it Tear Tare-n-gear. I have a friend who cannot pronounce Sperethiel. It always comes out S-fur-reth-ree-al. My Dad taught me to pronounce Sidhe and foci.

My personal favorite in Seattle is fremont is pronounced by the locals as FREEmont. I think the French are laughing at us.

[Daylen]

My pronunciation for years (using English words): Tier Tay-urn-guy-err

Pronunciation according to Sixth World Almanac: Shear shane-guy-ray

And the only people that would use the former pronunciation if the latter is correct are anti-elf (or at least anti-Tir) elements attempting to be derisive. Media in the 6th world is far more audio-visual than text based (in fact, in 3rd ed, you were considered to have read/write skill of 1/2 of whatever your spoken skill in the language was due to this). So odds are, the more common derisive way to pronounce the countries' names would probably end up being a crappy pun based on the word "shear".

so do you pronounce Chicago as Shicago? and if you do are you anti American Indian? or Anti something else to do with the city? When a word from one language is pronounced by speakers of another things get weird.

[Kraegor]

This is just like how the word Sidhe is pronounced "She". Makes no sense. At all.

[tete]

so do you pronounce Chicago as Shicago? and if you do are you anti American Indian? or Anti something else to do with the city? When a word from one language is pronounced by speakers of another things get weird.

Thats Ticago to you bub (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Jhaiisiin]

This is just like how the word Sidhe is pronounced "She". Makes no sense. At all.

That's gaelic for you. Multiple instances of 3-4 letter combinations that are flat out silent in pronunciation.

[Abstruse]

My personal favorite in Seattle is fremont is pronounced by the locals as FREEmont. I think the French are laughing at us.

Oh, that's universal. I live in Austin, TX, which has a large Hispanic population. We have two streets here named Guadalupe and Manchaca. They are inexplicably pronounced "Goo-wad-a-loop" and "Man-shack". This is obviously not the correct way to pronounce either, but that's how everyone says them, even the bus announcements. And even the bus announcements in Spanish. *shrug*

[Darkeus]

My Dad taught me to pronounce Sidhe and foci.

My God. I have been playing Shadowrun for damn near 18 years or so and I have been saying foci wrong for all of them...

Man I feel dumb! At least I have been saying Aztlan right! I have realized I really did not know how to pronounce some of this stuff AT ALL!

[Daylen]

Thats Ticago to you bub (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'd rather Titstogo...

[Abstruse]

My God. I have been playing Shadowrun for damn near 18 years or so and I have been saying foci wrong for all of them...

Man I feel dumb! At least I have been saying Aztlan right! I have realized I really did not know how to pronounce some of this stuff AT ALL!

Foci is just "focus" with an "eye" sound at the end instead of "us", right? I mean it's just the normal Latin pluralization...unless I've been saying it wrong too.

And I learned sidhe was pronounced "she" from The Dresden Files audio books. Still have MASSIVE problems with a lot of the Aztlantian words. I just stumble through them until my roommate pipes up for me. "Az-lan" is how I always say it, but do NOT ask me about the capital city...never gotten that one.

[Darkeus]

Foci is just "focus" with an "eye" sound at the end instead of "us", right? I mean it's just the normal Latin pluralization...unless I've been saying it wrong too.

And I learned sidhe was pronounced "she" from The Dresden Files audio books. Still have MASSIVE problems with a lot of the Aztlantian words. I just stumble through them until my roommate pipes up for me. "Az-lan" is how I always say it, but do NOT ask me about the capital city...never gotten that one.

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary, no.

It is pronounced fo-si

Dictionary entry

[Inpu]

Foci is just "focus" with an "eye" sound at the end instead of "us", right? I mean it's just the normal Latin pluralization...unless I've been saying it wrong too.

And I learned sidhe was pronounced "she" from The Dresden Files audio books. Still have MASSIVE problems with a lot of the Aztlantian words. I just stumble through them until my roommate pipes up for me. "Az-lan" is how I always say it, but do NOT ask me about the capital city...never gotten that one.

Try this: Tea no schtit lawn. The sch part is where most people have trouble, I find. Tea as in the drink and lawn as in... well, your front lawn.

[Acme]

Tech-no-chit-lin! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) That's what I've always just snarkily called it. Sure, I can say Tea-nosh-tit-lan, but I like the sound of Technochitlin. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

The word 'foci' may be pronounced [fo-kai] or [fo-sai], or [fo-kee] or [fo-see], if you prefer. None of the options are incorrect. The first two are, perhaps, more common than the latter two.

[Abstruse]

The word 'foci' may be pronounced [fo-kai] or [fo-sai], or [fo-kee] or [fo-see], if you prefer. None of the options are incorrect. The first two are, perhaps, more common than the latter two.

See, I always assumed it was the fo-kai option. I'd have to look up the etymology to be sure, but I assumed "focus" was of a Latin root, thus making the plural "foci". Since the only thing that changes between the two in pronunciation is the final syllable, I assumed the "us" would just be changed to "eye". Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Seriously, my roommate is already giving me shit constantly because I pronounce "salmon" as "sal-mon" as opposed to "sam-on". That's how my mother pronounced it and (stolen blatantly from Eddie Izzard) there's a fucking L in it!

[Yerameyahu]

Sure, but etymology (especially in another language) has almost nothing to do with 'correct' pronunciation in English.

For 'salmon', either option is correct, too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The 'L-less' version is much more popular, because the word had no L in Middle English. The L (the letter, not the sound) was reinserted when Latin-knowing scholars decided that they should 'correct' the spelling. This happened to a great many words, in fact, and has led to many words with 'silent letters' (debt, for example), and to some modern pronunciations that are historically 'incorrect' (because people are pronouncing silent letters reinserted from the 'original' Latin).

[Mäx]

And I learned sidhe was pronounced "she" from The Dresden Files audio books.

Those are whole lot fun to listen to, Masters is an awesome reader.
But it was pretty big suprise for me yesterday when i read the Dresden files tropes.com page and went "oh so thats how its written" many of the names especially where a "little" different from how i had envisioned them spaced on pronouncement (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[WhiskeyMac]

I was born in Oregon but moved to Arizona when I was young. Everyone down here would pronounce it Oreeegon or Oragone. Annoys the hell out of me. Also, Astoria being pronounced ASStoria or any pronunciation of Willamette.

How is Puyallup pronounced? PU yall up or Pee yall up? I've heard it both ways.

[Acme]

And that's why U of O puts out bumper stickers with Orygun on them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Anywho, Puyallup is generally pronounced with the u silent. I've heard a few variations, but it's generally "P' yall up" just quickly so the three syllables blend into eachother. Some people put a bit more emphasis on the Puh sound, trying to get the u in there, but from what I've heard you're supposed to have as little u as possible, making it a quick gutteral stop between the P and Y instead of an actual vowel.

[crash2029]

My God. I have been playing Shadowrun for damn near 18 years or so and I have been saying foci wrong for all of them...

Man I feel dumb! At least I have been saying Aztlan right! I have realized I really did not know how to pronounce some of this stuff AT ALL!

I enjoy pronouncing words in Nahuatl. My favorite ones are two Aztec gods named Xipe Totec and Chalchiuhtlicue. Though Huitzilopochtli is a close runner up.

My Dad also taught me how to pronounce Missouri, Louisana, New Orleans, and San Antonio. He moved around alot.

[Yerameyahu]

I like Tezcatlipoca!

[Inpu]

I like Tezcatlipoca!

As do I. Blood thirsty little so and so.

[Voran]

I'd rather Titstogo...

Titsogtfogo?

[killfr3nzy]

I'd rather Titstogo...

Titsogtfogo?

Tits-to-go?

[last_of_the_grea...]

Ya know, seriously, just nuke the place already! Stupid goddamn phonics!

[Daylen]

Tits-to-go?

I thought obviously so...

[tete]

Ya know, seriously, just nuke the place already! Stupid goddamn phonics!

Its the only way to be safe (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

[Daylen]

Its the only way to be safe (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

only if you do it from orbit to be sure...

[Tyro]

I'm from the Seattle area, and I've always pronounced it pyou-all-up (all like Al from Home Improvement), as do my wife and family and just about everyone else I know.

[crash2029]

I still remember the first time I had to spell Coeur d' Alene.

[Yerameyahu]

Whoa, I'm just *this minute* reading a paper about Coeur d'Alene Salish phonetics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Trippy coincidence.
Or maybe just the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon. :/

[Angelone]

Wow, just noticed how little I pay attention to how things are spelled and how my group doesn't seem to want to correct me.

Tear TEH Rain
Pully up
Snowish

Tell me I'm getting Red mond and ever it right at least.

[tete]

Red mond is correct

Pully up is pronounce pew al up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NIo-4PPlGg
Snowish is pronounced Snow home ish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHubMiDLpEU

youtube is your friend

[Tyro]

RED-mund
EVER-it
snow-HOME-ish
snow-KWAHL-uh-mee
ISS-uh-kwah
pyou-AL-up (like Al from Home Improvement)
BELL-view
KIRK-lund
AWE-burn

Anything else?

[X-Kalibur]

Herb =P