Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Help to settle a little argument
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2
phillosopherp
All right so me and my group of players got into an argument of how Tir Tairngire is supposed to be pronounced. Of course I realize that no one on here can say it for us or anything but I am hoping that I can get some folks that know how to do the whole dictionary type thing for pronouncing the name. I can't handle it anymore when I say it one way and one side of the table starts in and when I say it the other way that the other side goes nuts. Please someone help to definitively settle this for us. Thanks!
Badmoodguy88
Probably not at all definitive but I found this.
http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-307444.html
Conspiracy X
Tr Tairngire: shir sha-irn-gi-rā

Straight from the 6th World Almanac.

Hope that helps.
Red_Cap
QUOTE (Conspiracy X @ Aug 17 2010, 03:22 AM) *
Tr Tairngire: shir sha-irn-gi-rā

Straight from the 6th World Almanac.

Hope that helps.


It helped me, for sure. I've been calling it Teer Taern-guy-er this whole time.
Ed_209a
QUOTE (Conspiracy X @ Aug 17 2010, 04:22 AM) *
Tr Tairngire: shir sha-irn-gi-rā

Straight from the 6th World Almanac.

Hope that helps.


Both of the Tirs are Gaelic names, right? I've long thought that Gaelic transliteration is a practical joke on the rest of the English-speaking world.

nezumi
I've always said it "Teer Ta-*mumble mumble mumble*".
BlueMax
Tear Tangerine.

Ain't never going to pronounce dandelion eater land jr any other way.

BlueMax
tete
QUOTE (Conspiracy X @ Aug 17 2010, 10:22 AM) *
Tr Tairngire: shir sha-irn-gi-rā

Straight from the 6th World Almanac.


Really? I find that really odd seeing how everyone I've known always says Tear... Is there an older book that says Shir to? I'm going to laugh if I had missed this for years!

QUOTE (BlueMax @ Aug 17 2010, 04:31 PM) *
Tear Tangerine.


This is the way I have been saying it forever (not that I'm correct)
Yerameyahu
Actually, that's a *great* point: there's no reason the rest of the world would pronounce it 'correctly' (as a Tir native). English, for example, has an illustrious history of mispronouncing country names (and everything else). So the most authentic pronunciation is 'teer tan-gear', or 'teer tare-n gyre', or however your brain wants! smile.gif
phillosopherp
QUOTE (Red_Cap @ Aug 17 2010, 05:40 AM) *
It helped me, for sure. I've been calling it Teer Taern-guy-er this whole time.



Just for the record this is how I have always pronounced it myself and probably always will, but at least I can now tell both my asshat players that they were both wrong!!
Acme
... Oh my lord, it never stops for Oregon, does it, even in the future. Even when we change the name people still get the pronunciation wrong. (Granted, I still pronounce the T's in TT so nyahnyah.gif)
TommyTwoToes
QUOTE (BlueMax @ Aug 17 2010, 11:31 AM) *
Tear Tangerine.


Between this and Egg Na Nog, you have them beat.
Kruger
I always pronounced it Teer Tairn-guyer, but that's because it never really factored into any of our games and was just bad fluff from 1e.
BlueMax
QUOTE (Acme @ Aug 17 2010, 10:51 AM) *
... Oh my lord, it never stops for Oregon, does it, even in the future. Even when we change the name people still get the pronunciation wrong. (Granted, I still pronounce the T's in TT so nyahnyah.gif)

Oh where, Oh where has Ori gone?

BlueMax
Acme
Wait, you consider TT bad fluff?
Cabral
I think there was a website with Gaelic pronunciation .wav files for Shadowrun, but I don't recall the site or if it is even still around.

So, resorting to Google: Beginner's Guide to Irish Gaelic

From that guide it would be:
Tir : chir (roll the "r")
Tairngire : chairangire (roll the "r", "a" inserted between "r" and "n" per "double constant" section of above guide; make wild guesses at syllables ...)
tete
I always knew elves were leprechauns... The Shamrocks are back in the Barrens!
X-Kalibur
QUOTE (tete @ Aug 17 2010, 01:50 PM) *
I always knew elves were leprechauns... The Tamroks are back in the Barrens!


FTFY =)
MJBurrage
Aside from the Sixth World Almanac, I could not find another Shadowrun source that gives a pronunciation.

Both Tr na ng and Tir Tairngire are real world terms, and all the related sources I have seen support the "T" sounding like "t" not "sh".

So absent another source, I would ignore the 6WA pronunciations.
Cabral
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Aug 17 2010, 03:53 PM) *
Aside from the Sixth World Almanac, I could not find another Shadowrun source that gives a pronunciation.

Both Tr na ng and Tir Tairngire are real world terms, and all the related sources I have seen support the "T" sounding like "t" not "sh".

So absent another source, I would ignore the 6WA pronunciations.

The link you posted refer to Celtic sources, which, if I am not mistaken, is related to, but different than, Gaelic. As the Sixth World Almanac is similar to Gaelic pronunciation I cobbled together above, I would guess the pronunciation could have been put together by someone with a greater grasp of Gaelic than the beginner's guide represents.

So, absent a more definitive reference for Gaelic, I wouldn't be so quick to discount the authors.

Edit: Wiki article explaining the branches of the Celtic Languages, focusing on the Gaelic branch.
tete
"If" Shadowrun Elven (Spethireal) is Irish Gaelic it would be Ch, not Sh. The author is either making up his own thing based on Irish Gaelic (likely, cus you know they are elves not irish) or was confused. My source is a buddy who speaks Irish Gaelic but I'll let you look it up yourself as the internet seams to agree with him smile.gif Also since Irish Gaelic and Spethireal are both language options in older editions I would say they are not the same thing. Heck they are not even in the same language family! So there fore it shouldn't be anything like Irish Gaelic.
Aaron
To make that 't' sound, put your tongue in the position it would be to make an English 't' sound (maybe a tiny bit further back if you want to be all accurate) and blow air around your tongue rather than down the middle. This will sound a lot like an English 'ch' sound.

Yes, IAAL (linguist, in this case).

And yes, I'm cunning, thanks. Stop that.


X-Kalibur
QUOTE (Aaron @ Aug 17 2010, 01:40 PM) *
To make that 't' sound, put your tongue in the position it would be to make an English 't' sound (maybe a tiny bit further back if you want to be all accurate) and blow air around your tongue rather than down the middle. This will sound a lot like an English 'ch' sound.

Yes, IAAL (linguist, in this case).

And yes, I'm cunning, thanks. Stop that.


Does that mean I can't make a joke about felatious arguments?
tete
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Aug 17 2010, 10:47 PM) *
Does that mean I can't make a joke about felatious arguments?


Yes
Yerameyahu
Woot, linguists represent! smile.gif I'm quantitative socio, which may inform my 'however people decide to pronounce it is correct' stance. biggrin.gif
Daylen
I always thought it was Tir Tairngiskia.
Abstruse
My pronunciation for years (using English words): Tier Tay-urn-guy-err

Pronunciation according to Sixth World Almanac: Shear shane-guy-ray

And the only people that would use the former pronunciation if the latter is correct are anti-elf (or at least anti-Tir) elements attempting to be derisive. Media in the 6th world is far more audio-visual than text based (in fact, in 3rd ed, you were considered to have read/write skill of 1/2 of whatever your spoken skill in the language was due to this). So odds are, the more common derisive way to pronounce the countries' names would probably end up being a crappy pun based on the word "shear".
Saint Sithney
What? Rather than some sort of Oregon Trail of Tirs joke?
Mx
QUOTE (tete @ Aug 17 2010, 11:40 PM) *
Also since Irish Gaelic and Spethireal are both language options in older editions I would say they are not the same thing.

Definedly not the same language as 6WA list for Tir na Nog both Irish Gaelic and Irish Sperethiel as the nations primary languages after english.
Also apparently Irish Sperethiel is different from Sperethiel that is listted as Tir Tairngires official langue.
Voran
teeer tan guy-ar.

Also, not to be confused with Tyr Tan GUYVER!
Yerameyahu
I wouldn't immediately say it's anti-Elf to 'mispronounce' Tir Tairngire. It *could* be, if it were intentional, and in the right context, and using the correct tone of voice/facial expression/etc.
Doc Chase
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 18 2010, 03:06 PM) *
I wouldn't immediately say it's anti-Elf to 'mispronounce' Tir Tairngire. It *could* be, if it were intentional, and in the right context, and using the correct tone of voice/facial expression/etc.


I dunno, pronouncing it "Dandy Land" or "Keebstown" might get the point across no matter what you tone was. biggrin.gif
Yerameyahu
No, those are legitimate dialectal variants in certain cultural centers. CAS, for example. wink.gif It's all they know, they learn it as children.
tete
QUOTE (Mx @ Aug 18 2010, 09:00 AM) *
Definedly not the same language as 6WA list for Tir na Nog both Irish Gaelic and Irish Sperethiel as the nations primary languages after english.
Also apparently Irish Sperethiel is different from Sperethiel that is listted as Tir Tairngires official langue.


So does that mean even the elves argue about how to say it? Irish Sperethiel vs Sperethiel?
Nows7
"The Oregon Elf place" and "The Irish Elf place"

Or

"Tir Oregon" and "Tir Ireland"
crash2029
QUOTE (Acme @ Aug 17 2010, 02:51 PM) *
... Oh my lord, it never stops for Oregon, does it, even in the future. Even when we change the name people still get the pronunciation wrong. (Granted, I still pronounce the T's in TT so nyahnyah.gif)

Tell me about it. I was born in Portland and now I live in Eastern Washington. I cannot count the times I have heard Ore-ee-gone or Warshington. And since I live in Eastern Washington I get to hear Spo-cane alot. Then again it took me awhile to figure out how to pronounce Puyallup.

As for the Tir business I always pronounce it Tear Tare-n-gear. I have a friend who cannot pronounce Sperethiel. It always comes out S-fur-reth-ree-al. My Dad taught me to pronounce Sidhe and foci.
tete
QUOTE (crash2029 @ Aug 18 2010, 09:06 PM) *
Tell me about it. I was born in Portland and now I live in Eastern Washington. I cannot count the times I have heard Ore-ee-gone or Warshington. And since I live in Eastern Washington I get to hear Spo-cane alot. Then again it took me awhile to figure out how to pronounce Puyallup.

As for the Tir business I always pronounce it Tear Tare-n-gear. I have a friend who cannot pronounce Sperethiel. It always comes out S-fur-reth-ree-al. My Dad taught me to pronounce Sidhe and foci.


My personal favorite in Seattle is fremont is pronounced by the locals as FREEmont. I think the French are laughing at us.
Daylen
QUOTE (Abstruse @ Aug 18 2010, 03:39 AM) *
My pronunciation for years (using English words): Tier Tay-urn-guy-err

Pronunciation according to Sixth World Almanac: Shear shane-guy-ray

And the only people that would use the former pronunciation if the latter is correct are anti-elf (or at least anti-Tir) elements attempting to be derisive. Media in the 6th world is far more audio-visual than text based (in fact, in 3rd ed, you were considered to have read/write skill of 1/2 of whatever your spoken skill in the language was due to this). So odds are, the more common derisive way to pronounce the countries' names would probably end up being a crappy pun based on the word "shear".


so do you pronounce Chicago as Shicago? and if you do are you anti American Indian? or Anti something else to do with the city? When a word from one language is pronounced by speakers of another things get weird.
Kraegor
This is just like how the word Sidhe is pronounced "She". Makes no sense. At all.
tete
QUOTE (Daylen @ Aug 18 2010, 10:29 PM) *
so do you pronounce Chicago as Shicago? and if you do are you anti American Indian? or Anti something else to do with the city? When a word from one language is pronounced by speakers of another things get weird.


Thats Ticago to you bub wink.gif
Jhaiisiin
QUOTE (Kraegor @ Aug 18 2010, 05:12 PM) *
This is just like how the word Sidhe is pronounced "She". Makes no sense. At all.


That's gaelic for you. Multiple instances of 3-4 letter combinations that are flat out silent in pronunciation.
Abstruse
QUOTE (tete @ Aug 18 2010, 04:20 PM) *
My personal favorite in Seattle is fremont is pronounced by the locals as FREEmont. I think the French are laughing at us.

Oh, that's universal. I live in Austin, TX, which has a large Hispanic population. We have two streets here named Guadalupe and Manchaca. They are inexplicably pronounced "Goo-wad-a-loop" and "Man-shack". This is obviously not the correct way to pronounce either, but that's how everyone says them, even the bus announcements. And even the bus announcements in Spanish. *shrug*

Darkeus
QUOTE (crash2029 @ Aug 18 2010, 05:06 PM) *
My Dad taught me to pronounce Sidhe and foci.


My God. I have been playing Shadowrun for damn near 18 years or so and I have been saying foci wrong for all of them...

Man I feel dumb! At least I have been saying Aztlan right! I have realized I really did not know how to pronounce some of this stuff AT ALL!
Daylen
QUOTE (tete @ Aug 18 2010, 11:21 PM) *
Thats Ticago to you bub wink.gif

I'd rather Titstogo...
Abstruse
QUOTE (Darkeus @ Aug 18 2010, 07:32 PM) *
My God. I have been playing Shadowrun for damn near 18 years or so and I have been saying foci wrong for all of them...

Man I feel dumb! At least I have been saying Aztlan right! I have realized I really did not know how to pronounce some of this stuff AT ALL!

Foci is just "focus" with an "eye" sound at the end instead of "us", right? I mean it's just the normal Latin pluralization...unless I've been saying it wrong too.

And I learned sidhe was pronounced "she" from The Dresden Files audio books. Still have MASSIVE problems with a lot of the Aztlantian words. I just stumble through them until my roommate pipes up for me. "Az-lan" is how I always say it, but do NOT ask me about the capital city...never gotten that one.
Darkeus
QUOTE (Abstruse @ Aug 18 2010, 09:23 PM) *
Foci is just "focus" with an "eye" sound at the end instead of "us", right? I mean it's just the normal Latin pluralization...unless I've been saying it wrong too.

And I learned sidhe was pronounced "she" from The Dresden Files audio books. Still have MASSIVE problems with a lot of the Aztlantian words. I just stumble through them until my roommate pipes up for me. "Az-lan" is how I always say it, but do NOT ask me about the capital city...never gotten that one.



According to Merriam-Webster dictionary, no.

It is pronounced fo-si

Dictionary entry

Inpu
QUOTE (Abstruse @ Aug 19 2010, 03:23 AM) *
Foci is just "focus" with an "eye" sound at the end instead of "us", right? I mean it's just the normal Latin pluralization...unless I've been saying it wrong too.

And I learned sidhe was pronounced "she" from The Dresden Files audio books. Still have MASSIVE problems with a lot of the Aztlantian words. I just stumble through them until my roommate pipes up for me. "Az-lan" is how I always say it, but do NOT ask me about the capital city...never gotten that one.


Try this: Tea no schtit lawn. The sch part is where most people have trouble, I find. Tea as in the drink and lawn as in... well, your front lawn.
Acme
Tech-no-chit-lin! biggrin.gif That's what I've always just snarkily called it. Sure, I can say Tea-nosh-tit-lan, but I like the sound of Technochitlin. nyahnyah.gif
Yerameyahu
The word 'foci' may be pronounced [fo-kai] or [fo-sai], or [fo-kee] or [fo-see], if you prefer. None of the options are incorrect. The first two are, perhaps, more common than the latter two.
Abstruse
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 18 2010, 10:23 PM) *
The word 'foci' may be pronounced [fo-kai] or [fo-sai], or [fo-kee] or [fo-see], if you prefer. None of the options are incorrect. The first two are, perhaps, more common than the latter two.

See, I always assumed it was the fo-kai option. I'd have to look up the etymology to be sure, but I assumed "focus" was of a Latin root, thus making the plural "foci". Since the only thing that changes between the two in pronunciation is the final syllable, I assumed the "us" would just be changed to "eye". Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Seriously, my roommate is already giving me shit constantly because I pronounce "salmon" as "sal-mon" as opposed to "sam-on". That's how my mother pronounced it and (stolen blatantly from Eddie Izzard) there's a fucking L in it!
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012