Smartlinks, Image Mods, and Ranged Weapons, Help! Options

[Wonazer]

Let me start off by saying that my players have thoroughly confused the crap out of me. Help!

Smartlink does not work with a Scope. That makes sense to me.

But, how would you handle a Smartlink combined with cyber Image Magnification? I cannot find anything to say that it cannot work together.

I figure that if you zoom in, you will still see the smartlink dot of your weapons current target. I do have a problem with the idea that at long ranges holding your weapon steady will be of extreme importance because of your limited visual perspective.

So, unless you all have a better or canon solution that I have missed, I have decided that smartlink can only work out to the same range that a laser sight works (50m).

Is that a reasonable solution? Or am I way off?

[Seven Deadly SIN...]

It has always worked that way witht the GM I have. It's really hard to change targets effectively, but someone or something you zoom in on, get's a bullet (or two) where the crosshair is pointing.

[Wonazer]

How should I penalize them for the time taken to zoom out and back in on the next target? Make the zoom in action a simple action? If I do that then I will take away my 50m penalty.

Besides the fact that anything at longer ranges that I am shooting at I could probably take the time to aim first.

[Shockwave_IIc]

in my games i just don't let them combine, also if they want benefits of scope (or vision mag) then they have to declear an aim action, but that last one is a house rule.

[Seven Deadly SIN...]

http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/resources/faq.shtml#2

The Shadowrun FAQ actually answers the question for us.

The rules state that image magnifying scopes are not compatible with smartlinks, but what about cybernetic vision magnification or the equivalent adept improved sense?
While a character may be simultaneously equipped with a smartlink system and an imaging scope/vision mag cyberware/vision mag adept power, the modifiers from both may not be used at the same time. So a samurai could use vision magnification to reduce the target number when shooting a target at long range, and then switch to using a smartlink to reduce the target number against a target at short range--but he couldn't use both the smartlink and vision mag modifiers on the same target.

[Voran]

Better to just slap a Range Finder accessory onto your gun, combined with a smartlink 2, the bonuses are nearly as good as a laser sight + mag scope.

[Wonazer]

Making them take and aim action is a very good idea. But, if I do not allow them to use smartlink to aim with Vision Mag cyber, how can they even aim? Once they zoom, their visual perspective would either narrow too much to see the iron sights of the weapon, or the iron sights would be huge and useless for fine aiming...

And that FAQ makes no sense for the reasons I just stated. How can they aim with the Vision Mag cyber alone?

[TheScamp]

[Wonazer]

So, with your idea you can reduce the range modifiers, but you do not get the added -2 from Smartlink/-1 from Laser. Consider though, that a laser only works up to 50m which makes them only useful for smaller arms, in regards to reducing range mods. Also, I would still require an aim action as well.

It may work that same as the crosshairs in a scope, but I have to zoom in and out to aquire a target. If I get a muscle spasm while zoomed in and my smartlink dot moves outside of my vision arc, I would have to zoom out to reaquire my target.

What a goofy ass mess. No wonder I got all confused. LOL

[TheScamp]

[Shadow]

Read the section in combat on SG link and vision mag. SG links are nto compatible with any other vision enhancing equipment. In other words if you use a SG link you can not use a scope or cybered vision mag.

If you do a search on the forums there have been several topics concerning this.

[Eyeless Blond]

Hmm. Doesn't that make smartlinks kinda useless for snipers, over a decent level 3 scope then? Does that really make much sense?

[RedmondLarry]

Yes, for extreme-range work.

Aim-Aim-Aim works real well.

[Shadow]

I said nothing about it making sense. But the rules are pretty clear on this. If you are using a scope, or cyber ware to enhance your visual range, you cannot use a sg link.

Personally I would use a scope and rely on a skilled character. You can also go the sg+rf route and get a decent reduction.

It does make sense though, when you use a scope you are focusing your vision, how does the SG link tell between the stuff that's ten feet a way on your periphery, and the stuff you are seeing through the scope?

This post has been edited by Shadow: Mar 30 2004, 04:15 AM

[TheScamp]

[A Clockwork Lime]

[Shadow]

Nope. How does the chip know? As far as the chip is concerned you are looking at a piece of glass 2 inches in front of your face.

This is why IMHO that SG links and vision mags are incompatible. However, whatever the reason for it, they are.

[mfb]

if we're talking realism, the chip would know because you know--shouldn't be that hard to compare the image from each eye and triangulate a reasonably accurate distance. but, as far as SR goes, Shadow's right. Sega's Time Crisis series has surpassed the functionality of smartlink cyberware.

[A Clockwork Lime]

Non-cybernetic smartlinks aren't smart at all. They're just laser sights in your eyes. When talking about real smartlinks, you're talking about ones connected directly to your brain and come standard with the a limited-to-the-smartlink-only datajack/induction pad and simrig.

[mfb]

well, they're smart to a degree. after all, SL2s still give you the -2 on called shots. but, yes, in general, a non-cyber smartlink is a lot 'dumber' than an implanted one; hence the lower bonus.

[A Clockwork Lime]

M&M states that a Smartlink-2 system with any replacement parts (ie, goggles) only grants a -1 TN bonus to ranged combat, just like all other smartgoggles. Nothing else is gained, including the other benefits of Smartlink-2's.

[mfb]

whoops. have to check that out.

[mfb]

having looked it up, Clockwork, i'm gonna have to say you're mistaken, unless you can give me chapter and verse. i see nothing in M&M, CC, or SR3 that denies a smartgoggle user the extra benefits of an SL2. as a matter of fact, there are smartgoggles for the SL2 listed in CC, at 500Y more than SL1 goggles. if the benefits of using SL2 do not transfer to smartgoggle users, there would be no point in offering SL2-specific smartgoggles (since SL2 gun modifications are backwards-compatible with SL1 cyberware and smartgoggles).

[Wonazer]

[The White Dwarf]

Look you know what the rule is, and its crystal clear. If you try to explain away all the rules in SR youll go insane, dont even try. Just take it as is for game balance reasons.

You want to make that your house rule, fine. But it will mean no one buys Vision Mag 3, everyone buys Smartlink. If youre ok with that then go with it. Not so much for illogicalness but whos going to want to spend 4 actions (aim x3, shoot) when they could spend 1 action (shoot) to do the same thing. Think about it. I mean hell the (aim x3, shoot) combo will give you passable TNs without *any* sight enchancement.

As for the goggles: SL and SL-2 goggles exist. SL-2 ones provide the usual SL-2 benefits. But, in all cases, non-cybernetic smartlinks only get a base -1 TN to shooting. Least as I read it.