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FrostyNSO
post Aug 21 2004, 12:22 AM
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I have two questions actually:

1) How in the world is somebody going to fire a minigun without racking up a huge recoil modifier (fixed fire rate added to heavy weapon recoil)?

2) If a 1kg weight affixed to the underside of a weapon provides -1 recoil, would it be unreasonable to apply this -1 recoil to rifles with an underbarrel grenade launcher?
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Cain
post Aug 21 2004, 12:25 AM
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1. Fire it from a vehicle, and only use it for supressive fire.

2. It's unbalancing, game wise. Also, how can it help when you fire a grenade?
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toturi
post Aug 21 2004, 12:26 AM
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My first reaction to your title question is get Neo to destroy Smith and you will inevitably get MORE! :D

1) Use Suppressive Fire Rules.

2) The underbarrel grenade launcher prevents the installation of the underbarrel weight. For a Canon reference, look at the Ares Alpha as an example.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Aug 21 2004, 12:27 AM
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1) suppresive fire or in its proper form as a vehicle weapon (with the high powered recoil reduction you can buy for vehicle mounts)
2) not if you can convince the GM that it isn't (ya munchkin)

[edit]A lot of agreement here
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BitBasher
post Aug 21 2004, 12:33 AM
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1) Suppressive fire or mount it on a vewhicle or advanced gyro mount.

2) I allow that but not all GM's will. Then again I also allow a point of recoil comp for a fixed stock so I must be wacko insane!
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FrostyNSO
post Aug 21 2004, 12:36 AM
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The gyro mount doesn't quite do the trick, you still face about a +6 modifier or something. Suppressive fire is tempting though.

With the underbarrel weight, what I am saying is that if a 1kg weight can reduce recoil, couldn't a 3kg grenade launcher? and I'm not talking about compensating the launcher, just the rifle it's attached to.
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Ol' Scratch
post Aug 21 2004, 12:48 AM
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Mount it on a vehicle, get maximum recoil compensation (whatever method is most efficient for the mount), and use tracer or incendiary rounds mixed in with your normal ammunition.
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Kagetenshi
post Aug 21 2004, 01:01 AM
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If you really want to use it with a character, get a big troll and make sure you always have something else to fire the uncompensated rounds at.

~J
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toturi
post Aug 21 2004, 01:24 AM
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QUOTE (FrostyNSO)
The gyro mount doesn't quite do the trick, you still face about a +6 modifier or something. Suppressive fire is tempting though.

With the underbarrel weight, what I am saying is that if a 1kg weight can reduce recoil, couldn't a 3kg grenade launcher? and I'm not talking about compensating the launcher, just the rifle it's attached to.

A properly aligned and placed 1kg underbarrel weight will compensate but not a grenade launcher. I used the M16/M203 combo before, and IMO, it was bulky and didn't help with the recoil.
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FrostyNSO
post Aug 21 2004, 02:02 AM
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I too have used the M16/M203 combo (actually M4/M203), but I have also used a number of rifles with foregrips and found that they have little to no effect either. But can you seriously tell me that an M16 generates that much recoil to begin with? (even autofire in short bursts is fairly controllable)

I assume underbarrel grenade launchers have become more 'streamlined' in the 60 some-odd years they've been developing them from now.
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Cold-Dragon
post Aug 21 2004, 03:16 AM
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well, I'm not sure if there's a trick around it, but you can use the take aim option to lower the score a bit before you take the shot. At best you could do a full volly of 10 rounds or whatever, but you'll have aimed for several turns then.

otherwise, firing at every drekkin' thing you can see is the last resort option. (it's also why you run when someone does that with a VAC. Because if they roll lucky, you're probably screwed).
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Ol' Scratch
post Aug 21 2004, 03:26 AM
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Once again: Tracer or Incendiary Rounds. This is the sort of thing they were made for. Every third round lowers the target number (and thus counters excess recoil) of the shot.
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JaronK
post Aug 21 2004, 03:27 AM
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Well, two cyber arms with internal gyro mounts, plus a deluxe gyro mount added in, on a strength 6-11 troll provides something like 15 points of recoil compensation before adding anything from the weapon. That might do the trick.

JaronK
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xizor
post Aug 21 2004, 04:15 AM
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do cyber arm wrist gyros stack? i didnt think they did...
hmm
just a little rules clarification
if you are using a vehical mounted mmg would a cyber arm wrist gyro help with the recoil?
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Raptor1033
post Aug 21 2004, 04:40 AM
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i know the mini-gun description says you can't do barrel mods on the weapons... but is there any actual reason why other than balance? i can't imagine why you couldn't put barrel mods on the weapon, specifically gas vent IVs, if you applied the same mod to all the barrels. sure it'd be expensive but with the vents it would be well worth it. i'm just saying, pay for the price of the gas vent 4 however many times it takes to cover all the barrels but you don't get to stack all the bonuses, just a flat -4 to recoil for each bullet.
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JaronK
post Aug 21 2004, 07:04 AM
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I would assume that the motor is precision made to move the current weight of the barrels... adding a bulky gas vent system to each barrel would screw up the weighting and balance, and might not even be able to fit.

I don't really see why multiple gyromounts wouldn't stack though.

JaronK
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de4dmeta1
post Aug 21 2004, 07:33 AM
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QUOTE (JaronK)
I would assume that the motor is precision made to move the current weight of the barrels... adding a bulky gas vent system to each barrel would screw up the weighting and balance, and might not even be able to fit.

Add to that the Gas Vent systems supposedly vent barrel gasses at specific points and angles to counter recoil. Not very effective when the barrel has no fixed location in relation to the rest of the gun, yes? I could see a gas vent system on a minigun actually increasing recoil unless it was custom-designed and perfectly installed (which IMO should be out of reach for Joe Runner)
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Modesitt
post Aug 21 2004, 08:06 AM
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If you're talking about the Vindicator minigun, it's usually inferior to the Ares HV MP-LMG. The R3 ones are worth using on a vehicle though.

Anyways, recoil. Note this passage from R3.
QUOTE ("Page 140 Rigger 3")
When firing turret-mounted weapons, reduce recoil by half before applying recoil compensation from any accessories.

Turrets cancel the double-recoil modifier for heavy weapons.


So if you fired an Ares HV MP-LMG on full auto and pumped out 18 rounds, you'd need 9 points of RC from somewhere to make all of the recoil go away. If you didn't have 9 points, you'd only suffer +1 TN per uncompenated recoil, not +2.

A Small or larger turret or a fixed hard point would be sufficient for counteracting all of the recoil on a minigun. You'd need to buy 7 or 8 points of Gunnery Recoil Adjusters depending on which way your GM opted to round the 15 points of recoil.
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Necro Tech
post Aug 21 2004, 08:20 AM
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Any one ever fired the actual weapon its based on? The M114 or something like that. Raygun would know. How are those damn things actually comped? The only time I've ever seen one was when I heard you could possess one under some weird grandfather clause and this was Arizona where you can carry pistols on your hip. I got to see it (not getting fired) but all it had was a large tripod mounted on a truck bed. They actually showed a minigun in use on the show Monster Garage and it just didn't seem that hard to control. Just out of pure curiosity I'd like to know just how hard it should be to control.

In game, put it on a Vehicle with gyro stabilizers or the like and get tracer rounds. Then you can have zero recoil and use it for pin point anihilation of pedestrians.
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Thistledown
post Aug 21 2004, 02:00 PM
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Getting 9 or 10 points when using weapon design rules can be done, so add that all in to help you.
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FrostyNSO
post Aug 21 2004, 07:15 PM
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I was thinking man portable, not mounted. Like Blain in Predator.

The General Electric mini-gun isn't "compensated", but it is very heavy. This reduces the felt recoil by a ton.
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Ol' Scratch
post Aug 21 2004, 07:22 PM
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Considering he only hit anything when using suppressive fire, that's pretty much your answer right there.
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BitBasher
post Aug 21 2004, 10:41 PM
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Yeah, ol painless did a whole lot of forest clearing and that's about it.

and...
QUOTE
Add to that the Gas Vent systems supposedly vent barrel gasses at specific points and angles to counter recoil. Not very effective when the barrel has no fixed location in relation to the rest of the gun, yes?
No. When each barrel fires it DOES have a fixed position in relation to the rest of the gun. Only one barrel fires at a time, and it's always in the exact same position when it does.
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FrostyNSO
post Aug 21 2004, 11:20 PM
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No way, ol' painless did a great deal of killing when they assaulted that rebel camp. Not all of it was suppressive either, there were a few "point and shoot" kills.
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Ol' Scratch
post Aug 21 2004, 11:22 PM
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If by "point and shoot kills" you mean "suppressive fire in a one-meter area," sure. I don't remember any examples of accurate shooting from him. He relied on emptying lead in an occupied area and hoping he'd hit something.
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