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[Stormdrake]

I am a big horror fan (as in monster movies) and would like to run a game with more of that feel. Now some earlier work in the SR world introduced beings known as the horrors and they would seem to lend themselves to this style of story telling. Have heard alot about them and have read the descriptions in Earth Dawn. Have also looked at Ancient's site but there does not seem to be any stats or descriptions for them in SR. Has any one done write ups on these critters officially or unofficially?

[Herald of Verjig...]

Simple rules:
If it has a name, you can't even banish it except as the pinnacle of a massive plot invoking the help of much more powerful creatures than yourselves and some power sites.
If it's part of a large group of similar creatures none of which are ever considered individually, it takes anywhere from an AVS burst to three PAC rounds, usually in lower half of that range.

Horrors aren't a single type of critter, they are effectively a massive ecosystem worth of variety where all those that are sentient are also unique.

[Backgammon]

There are some stats in Harlequin's Back.

Basically, design a being that your runners will not be able to beat, unless they each use Hand of God. Then throw 4 or 5 of them at the runners.

[Herald of Verjig...]

Those are constructs, but pretty nasty ones.

I am curious, what are you trying to do that cannot be handled with a free spirit, a honougan (however that's spelled), and a mutated juggernaught?

If you really want some stats, I can try to find something minor enough that a devoted mage could conjure one with some effort and do an encumberance link conversion. But I'll need to know what you are going to try to use it for.

[akarenti]

Technically I think there's still at least 800 or so years before horrors ar supposed to start appearing in SR, but everything else is showing up much more quickly than in ED.

Wraiths are a good example of a quasi-horror that actually appears in SR. But basically any set of stats you come up with Karma Hazing, Karma Tap or Karma Drain could be a "horror" if you need one. Negative Background Count would most likely be ignored, and certain kinds such as that caused by blood magic(esp. if created by the Horror in question) would act as power sites.

In ED, horrors could do pretty much anything, from creating intricate objects from pure mana to animating the dead to rescupting Metahumans to serve as their "body" while on the physical plane. And they range in size and appearance from a little bur about an inch in diameter to a 700 yard long lamprey to just masses of magical energy. Since most horrors are unique anyway, you can come up with pretty much anything.

I would read the Horrors ED sourcebook, if it's available to you, but there really is no good way to convert ED stats to SR, besides just comparing them to the average ED character group, and making stats that are about the same threat to your SR group. But that's really more effort that most people would bother with. Also, a lot of abilities and concepts with the same names in both SR and ED, like Astral Perception and Dual Natured Beings, as well as the ability Karma Tap have completly different flavors in ED(although the SR version is actually even more "in flavor" for Horrors than the Horror power from ED).

[Method]

Goin' way back... hope my memory serves....

Doesn't the Darke NPC in the original Threats book have a few horror constructs he can whip up?

[Req]

Yes he does. Darke / Oscuro was the man for a little while. Guess he's dead or at lest disappeared, now. So sad.

[Tanka]

Oh, the Horrors are showing up fast. There are rumored to be a couple wandering around thanks to how fast Magic is coming around in this World. The one's in Harlequin's Back are Constructs (just as Herald said).

If you want to take a peek at their powers, see if you can find the Earthdawn book. I guarantee you'll be scared witless by some of the stuff they can do.

[Critias]

A certain carnivorous cow outbreak comes to mind.

[Tanka]

Those aren't horrors, those are just weird Critters.

[Shanshu Freeman]

[Tanka]

Bad, bad movie. Great graphics and effects, but very bad movie.

[Azrael]

Back in the day when these were the Deep Resonance forums, we had a thread going where a couple of the Earthdawn guys did some conversions for us. Separate posts are separated by

=======================

Horror Constructs (ie puds)

Cadaver Man

Q 3
S 5
B 6
I 3
W 5
C 3
R 3*
E you're joking right?
M 0

Claw: StrM
Armor: 0/0 Ballistic/Impact
Skills
Unarmed Combat: 3

They're zombies that were created by the horrors. Note, the Horror power Annimate Corpse is used for this.

* Here's the only ugly part. If he hits with you on the first hit he gets 3 more hits this combat pass. This may be gamebreaking, I haven't played this guy in SR so you might want to either reduce it to only 1 or 2 aditional hits.


Changling

Q 7
S 3
B 4
I 7
W 4
C 5
R 7
E hee hee, yeah right
M you decide (4-6 I'd say)

Bone Dagger Str+2L
Armor: 3/3 Ballistic/Impact

Skills
Edged Weapons: 4
Sorcery: 4*

* Changlings have one power, known as bone shaping. If successful in casting, the power allows Changlings to reshape bones into whatever shape they wish. To reshape a limb takes 5 turns. Each round this occurs the player takes 5L damage, reducable ONLY by Body, and players are at +3 TN for all actions.

Add 3 dice to the magic pool for either spell defense or to resist spells only.

Changlings are warped windlings (aka Sprites I think in SR). As such they can fly and are about 20 inches tall. Changling domisiles have bone sculptures they have attained against victims in the past. These sculptures ran for 1,000sp each in ED, given the rarity of these things I'd say they're worth 10,000 Y each in SR.


Jehuthra

J* are 7 foot long corrupted spiders and their legs are 10ft long (hence the +1 reach). They prefer setting ambushes to randomly moving about. J* will flee from combat if overmatched by large margins.

Q 4
S 4
B 6
I 7
W 8
C 4
R 5*
E hehe
M 4 (?)

Claw: 6M
Armor: 6/6 Ballistic/Impact
+1 Reach

Skills:
Claw Attack: 5
Sorcery: 4**

Loot: 3d6x100 in Y for the thorax web

add 4 dice to magic pool for either spell defense or resisting spells.


* Note, Jehuthra always have 2 melee attacks per pass. One of those attacks can be substituted for the Jehuthra's one innate power.

** Only when cornered will a Jehuthra use it's innate power. It has 3 powers listed below.

Lacerators: icy spikes that for on 2 of the J*'s legs. They last for 4d6 rounds and add +2 to it's claw damage.

Frost Web: Using this against a single opponent, the web does 4L cold damage and renders a character paralyzed for 3 rounds, or until the character makes a Str(10) test to break the web. Impact armor protects against this damage, but metal armor protects against only 3 points no matter what the armor value is.

Iron Web: ok, this takes 2 spellcasting actions (thus it takes 2 passes at least). If successfully cast against the runners, It forms a 10ft high maze that extends 25ft from the J*. There are 8 paths in the maze and all paths lead to the center. Iron Web isolates each runner in a different section of the maze. Any character moving faster than a slow walk must make a Quickness(5) test. Failure causes 5L damage, though Impact armor protects against this. The maze lasts for 4d6 rounds. The J* tends to scurry through the maze killing runners one by one rather than standing in the center and waiting for them to come to him.

For more constructs just use some of the paranormals in the 2 sourcebooks and then add a couple points to either skills or attribs.

=======================

Minor horrors (you asked for it)
Wormskull

Wormskulls are 5-8 feet tall and look like metahumans though their faces are masses of worms. Wormskulls can move in and out of astral space BODILY, requiring only a single complex action. Wormskulls prefer dry environments as they suck all moisture out of the air around them for 100 sq. yards.

Q 11
S 9
B 9
I 12
W 10
C 7
R 11*
E nada
M 9 [15] (?)

Claw: Str+4[6]S
Armor: 12/12 [14/14] Ballistic/Impact

Add 8 [10] dice to magic pool for either spell defense or resisting magic only

Skills:
Unarmed Combat: 9 [11]
Sorcery: 10 [12]**

Loot: breastplate worth 6d6x1,000 Y in magical radicals (true earth)

* Wormskulls get 2 melee attacks on every pass. They may substitute both those actions for spellcasting actions.

** Innate Powers: Animate Dead, Skin Shift (10)S, Circle 6 Nethermancer Spells, Terror (6).

Powers:
assume that no powers cause drain

Animate Dead: forms a cadaver man from a corpse

Skin Shift: 'the target's skin tears loose from from it's muscles & ligements twisting and rotating around his body' ED p298. Cast as a spell of force of damage listed above. Apply this damage for 3 consecutive rounds, even if the horror is dead. (note this is not a sustained spell so the horror gets no + TN for casting something else while Skin Shift is in effect).

Skin Shift also causes wounds, but only on the first turn. For each successful Skin Shift cast, add 5 boxes of Stun to the target character, there is NO WAY to avoid this damage though there are 3 ways to remove it, through the heal/treat spell (2 successes per box of Wound Damage) by going to a medical facility (+3 TN for doctor), or the wounds heal themselves at a rate of 1 box every 2 days.

Terror: Treat as an area affect spell. If successful, targets within 50 yards are affected. The highest success on the spellcasting test becomes the Will(?) test to break the effect. If successful the targets can take no actions other than 'his speech becomes a piteous wail, and any movements become random twitches' ED p299. Terror works for () rounds listed above.

Spells: Circle X Y. Y is the type of mage class spell that a horror can cast and X becomes the maximum circle from that class that a horror can cast. ie Circle 6 Nethermancer means that a horror can cast all spells in the ED world that a Circle 6 Nethermancer could cast. This means that he *could* cast Bone Shatter (Circle 6) and Pain (Circle 3) but not Damage Transfer (Circle 10).

This is the most puddly of the minor horrors and only a couple of the powers that horrors get. I won't post any more unless you ask me to.

=======================

Gnasher

Think two little fat legs, two little fat arms and a huge mouth. About 3-4 ft tall. 'Gnashers typically travel in swarms of several dozen' though you'll probably only want to fight against runners*2(or 3).

Q 4
S 7
B 3
I 2
W 7
C 2
R 3
M hehe
E bah

Claw 10S
Armor 3/3 Ballistic/Impact
Add 2 dice to magic pool for spell defense or resisting spells.


Skills:
Unarmed Combat: 4


Baggi (you asked for them not me)
think huge obese orangutans with long claws. These things have no skeletons though they can stiffen parts of their body to move or attack. Superior swingers and climbers usually found in Wooded areas. They devour their prey whole (rules below) and travel in groups of no less than 2.

Q 16
S 20
B 20
I 14
W 16
C 10
R 15*
E no, really you're kidding right?
M eh eh

Claw StrS
Armor 20/20 Ballistic/Impact (feel happy, I'm really cutting this one down)
+1 reach
Add 15 to the magic pool for either spell defense or resisting spells.

Unarmed Combat: 10**


* Baggies get 2 melee attacks per combat pass.

** If a Baggie gets 5 net successes against a runner, the Baggie swallows the runner whole. If inside a Baggie the runner takes 5L damage per 15 minutes which is reducable ONLY by body. A runner can attack from within if he has a small weapon or uses magic. Baggies only have 1/1 Ballistic/Impact Armor inside and are subject to only 1/2 their normal magic pool dice for magic attacks within.

Please note I just played pretty fast and loose with the rules for eating a runner. Comments or a better interperatation is requested.

=====================

Major Horrors I would suggest.

Artificer (ooo corrupted tech )
Bone Crown the Usurper (I look human don't I?)
Druistadt (ever seen a t'skrang before?)
Giftbringer (mentioned earlier)
Joie (for some rather macabre playing)
Nemisis (I turn your party aginst each other)
Taint (for those overconfident mages)
Tempter (subtlty is good)
Ubyr (giant worms woo hoo)
Buualgathor (I like melee combat and hunt other horrors)


Major Horrors NOT to go near
Aazhvat Many Eyes (astral only please)
Chantrel's Horror (astral only please)
Ristul (we are Ristul, you will be assimilated)
Verjigorm (did you say you wanted to kill the devil? Good luck and don't mention my name)
Vestrivan (half horror, half great dragon, half master magician, and all woop ass)
Ysgrathe (would be cool but is already dead)

[Azrael]

Back in the day when these were the Deep Resonance forums, we had a thread going where a couple of the Earthdawn guys did some conversions for us. Separate posts are separated by

=======================

Horror Constructs (ie puds)

Cadaver Man

Q 3
S 5
B 6
I 3
W 5
C 3
R 3*
E you're joking right?
M 0

Claw: StrM
Armor: 0/0 Ballistic/Impact
Skills
Unarmed Combat: 3

They're zombies that were created by the horrors. Note, the Horror power Annimate Corpse is used for this.

* Here's the only ugly part. If he hits with you on the first hit he gets 3 more hits this combat pass. This may be gamebreaking, I haven't played this guy in SR so you might want to either reduce it to only 1 or 2 aditional hits.


Changling

Q 7
S 3
B 4
I 7
W 4
C 5
R 7
E hee hee, yeah right
M you decide (4-6 I'd say)

Bone Dagger Str+2L
Armor: 3/3 Ballistic/Impact

Skills
Edged Weapons: 4
Sorcery: 4*

* Changlings have one power, known as bone shaping. If successful in casting, the power allows Changlings to reshape bones into whatever shape they wish. To reshape a limb takes 5 turns. Each round this occurs the player takes 5L damage, reducable ONLY by Body, and players are at +3 TN for all actions.

Add 3 dice to the magic pool for either spell defense or to resist spells only.

Changlings are warped windlings (aka Sprites I think in SR). As such they can fly and are about 20 inches tall. Changling domisiles have bone sculptures they have attained against victims in the past. These sculptures ran for 1,000sp each in ED, given the rarity of these things I'd say they're worth 10,000 Y each in SR.


Jehuthra

J* are 7 foot long corrupted spiders and their legs are 10ft long (hence the +1 reach). They prefer setting ambushes to randomly moving about. J* will flee from combat if overmatched by large margins.

Q 4
S 4
B 6
I 7
W 8
C 4
R 5*
E hehe
M 4 (?)

Claw: 6M
Armor: 6/6 Ballistic/Impact
+1 Reach

Skills:
Claw Attack: 5
Sorcery: 4**

Loot: 3d6x100 in Y for the thorax web

add 4 dice to magic pool for either spell defense or resisting spells.


* Note, Jehuthra always have 2 melee attacks per pass. One of those attacks can be substituted for the Jehuthra's one innate power.

** Only when cornered will a Jehuthra use it's innate power. It has 3 powers listed below.

Lacerators: icy spikes that for on 2 of the J*'s legs. They last for 4d6 rounds and add +2 to it's claw damage.

Frost Web: Using this against a single opponent, the web does 4L cold damage and renders a character paralyzed for 3 rounds, or until the character makes a Str(10) test to break the web. Impact armor protects against this damage, but metal armor protects against only 3 points no matter what the armor value is.

Iron Web: ok, this takes 2 spellcasting actions (thus it takes 2 passes at least). If successfully cast against the runners, It forms a 10ft high maze that extends 25ft from the J*. There are 8 paths in the maze and all paths lead to the center. Iron Web isolates each runner in a different section of the maze. Any character moving faster than a slow walk must make a Quickness(5) test. Failure causes 5L damage, though Impact armor protects against this. The maze lasts for 4d6 rounds. The J* tends to scurry through the maze killing runners one by one rather than standing in the center and waiting for them to come to him.

For more constructs just use some of the paranormals in the 2 sourcebooks and then add a couple points to either skills or attribs.

=======================

Minor horrors (you asked for it)
Wormskull

Wormskulls are 5-8 feet tall and look like metahumans though their faces are masses of worms. Wormskulls can move in and out of astral space BODILY, requiring only a single complex action. Wormskulls prefer dry environments as they suck all moisture out of the air around them for 100 sq. yards.

Q 11
S 9
B 9
I 12
W 10
C 7
R 11*
E nada
M 9 [15] (?)

Claw: Str+4[6]S
Armor: 12/12 [14/14] Ballistic/Impact

Add 8 [10] dice to magic pool for either spell defense or resisting magic only

Skills:
Unarmed Combat: 9 [11]
Sorcery: 10 [12]**

Loot: breastplate worth 6d6x1,000 Y in magical radicals (true earth)

* Wormskulls get 2 melee attacks on every pass. They may substitute both those actions for spellcasting actions.

** Innate Powers: Animate Dead, Skin Shift (10)S, Circle 6 Nethermancer Spells, Terror (6).

Powers:
assume that no powers cause drain

Animate Dead: forms a cadaver man from a corpse

Skin Shift: 'the target's skin tears loose from from it's muscles & ligements twisting and rotating around his body' ED p298. Cast as a spell of force of damage listed above. Apply this damage for 3 consecutive rounds, even if the horror is dead. (note this is not a sustained spell so the horror gets no + TN for casting something else while Skin Shift is in effect).

Skin Shift also causes wounds, but only on the first turn. For each successful Skin Shift cast, add 5 boxes of Stun to the target character, there is NO WAY to avoid this damage though there are 3 ways to remove it, through the heal/treat spell (2 successes per box of Wound Damage) by going to a medical facility (+3 TN for doctor), or the wounds heal themselves at a rate of 1 box every 2 days.

Terror: Treat as an area affect spell. If successful, targets within 50 yards are affected. The highest success on the spellcasting test becomes the Will(?) test to break the effect. If successful the targets can take no actions other than 'his speech becomes a piteous wail, and any movements become random twitches' ED p299. Terror works for () rounds listed above.

Spells: Circle X Y. Y is the type of mage class spell that a horror can cast and X becomes the maximum circle from that class that a horror can cast. ie Circle 6 Nethermancer means that a horror can cast all spells in the ED world that a Circle 6 Nethermancer could cast. This means that he *could* cast Bone Shatter (Circle 6) and Pain (Circle 3) but not Damage Transfer (Circle 10).

This is the most puddly of the minor horrors and only a couple of the powers that horrors get. I won't post any more unless you ask me to.

=======================

Gnasher

Think two little fat legs, two little fat arms and a huge mouth. About 3-4 ft tall. 'Gnashers typically travel in swarms of several dozen' though you'll probably only want to fight against runners*2(or 3).

Q 4
S 7
B 3
I 2
W 7
C 2
R 3
M hehe
E bah

Claw 10S
Armor 3/3 Ballistic/Impact
Add 2 dice to magic pool for spell defense or resisting spells.


Skills:
Unarmed Combat: 4


Baggi (you asked for them not me)
think huge obese orangutans with long claws. These things have no skeletons though they can stiffen parts of their body to move or attack. Superior swingers and climbers usually found in Wooded areas. They devour their prey whole (rules below) and travel in groups of no less than 2.

Q 16
S 20
B 20
I 14
W 16
C 10
R 15*
E no, really you're kidding right?
M eh eh

Claw StrS
Armor 20/20 Ballistic/Impact (feel happy, I'm really cutting this one down)
+1 reach
Add 15 to the magic pool for either spell defense or resisting spells.

Unarmed Combat: 10**


* Baggies get 2 melee attacks per combat pass.

** If a Baggie gets 5 net successes against a runner, the Baggie swallows the runner whole. If inside a Baggie the runner takes 5L damage per 15 minutes which is reducable ONLY by body. A runner can attack from within if he has a small weapon or uses magic. Baggies only have 1/1 Ballistic/Impact Armor inside and are subject to only 1/2 their normal magic pool dice for magic attacks within.

Please note I just played pretty fast and loose with the rules for eating a runner. Comments or a better interperatation is requested.

=====================

Major Horrors I would suggest.

Artificer (ooo corrupted tech )
Bone Crown the Usurper (I look human don't I?)
Druistadt (ever seen a t'skrang before?)
Giftbringer (mentioned earlier)
Joie (for some rather macabre playing)
Nemisis (I turn your party aginst each other)
Taint (for those overconfident mages)
Tempter (subtlty is good)
Ubyr (giant worms woo hoo)
Buualgathor (I like melee combat and hunt other horrors)


Major Horrors NOT to go near
Aazhvat Many Eyes (astral only please)
Chantrel's Horror (astral only please)
Ristul (we are Ristul, you will be assimilated)
Verjigorm (did you say you wanted to kill the devil? Good luck and don't mention my name)
Vestrivan (half horror, half great dragon, half master magician, and all woop ass)
Ysgrathe (would be cool but is already dead)

[Kagetenshi]

The Baggi are nasty. Seeing someone kicking and squirming in the belly of one of those…

~J

[kevyn668]

Chantrel's Horror....

Still makes me shiver and I'm a solid "pro-Humans."

[Kagetenshi]

Chantrel's Horror has beaten out Artificer and Tempter as my favourite Horror, all in all.

Which was the Horror that tattooed people's body parts? That would go well in Shadowrun, methinks.

~J

[Herald of Verjig...]

Nebis.

[Kagetenshi]

Incidentally, what made Ysrthgrathe die? Something in Worlds Without End, I assume?

~J

[Ancient History]

Aina got pissed and used blood magic on him right after Ysrthgrathe brought Harlequin down with a sneak attack. It's more likely he was banished than destroyed.

[iPad]

Dont forget that Horrors would cause a MASSIVE background count around them.

Also Horror marks would be cool. No one knows what they are, and the Shadow Runner would probably get away with what ever the Horror makes him do for ages.

[toturi]

You know Chantel's Horror doesn't pack as much punch for me. Quite simple, it sucks. All the person needs to be is a self-loving SOB or someone so alone that he loves Chantel's Horror. You can say "oops?"

[Kanada Ten]

[Herald of Verjig...]

In such a hypothecital, the framed nightmare will then find a new mortal. Possibly even passing the selfish bastard on to something that will enjoy the screams of pain.

[iPad]

Having recently watched Donnie Darko the whole Frank character reminded me alot of a Horror. Its affects and influences. I also have a 'Frank' pumpkin in my kitchen right now, took ages to carve.

[toturi]

[toturi]

EDIT: Double post

[iPad]

Nope, the 'Horror mark' used is effectively a one way magical link. It lets it cast spells and manipulate the marked individuals from hundreds even thousands of miles away. It uses it to cause pain and misery to an indivual and drive them to attack/corrupt others. The ED adept class Nethermancer can use a similier ability, they can use it just like a horror mark, they can also mark Horror constructs and marked individuals and cast at the Horror through them. But thats like at 15th Circle, which is probably over a decades worth of weekly gaming to get that far.

[Herald of Verjig...]

Despite the tales, there isn't any caveat in the horror's rules that limits it to one central mortal at a time. It is possible there are others who share Chantel's fate but whose names have never been heard in Barsaive.

[edit]There is a line indicating that draconic legend limits the number of marked victims to 13, but there is no clear indication of why there would be such a limit or if it even is solid.[/edit]

[iPad]

[Crusher Bob]

Actually, you can use a horror mark to magically track down the horror at least. It's a horror stalker ability...

[Kanada Ten]

[Ancient History]

Ah, Chantrel's Horror...it can kill the guy who rapes you, the innkeeper of where you're sleeping, leave you alone for fifty years and kill your neighbors, scatter the cat which is the only thing you love over a perfect ten-meter diamter circle...good tool. Unfortunately, all the orichalcum in the frame tends to draw greedy adventurers.

[Cranus]

Is Darke (from Threats) still around or was he 'killed' in some book?

Oh to whomever converted the Horrors, thanks. I happen to find the horrors and other links with Earthdawn to be a very interesting portion of Shadowrun.

[Demonseed Elite]

I believe Darke/Oscuro is spending his remaining days living on the Zurich Orbital, according to the mystery person on page 19 of Corporate Download.

[spotlite]

[Ancient History]

Ah, spotlite, you deserve a cookie.

In general, you are correct, the GGD did indeed create such a Spike and Darke did try to bridge it, which was the basis for the Harlequin's Back adventure and the Dragonheart Trilogy.

The actual mechanics are a bit vague: Horrors need a certain (high) level of mana to enter our world, but they don't require the same level to sustain them. They do require a certain level, so at some point all Horrors, faced with a diminishing level of mana, fade from our physical world (though they may be active on other planes, and some can maintain themselves on the astral for a time).

[Kagetenshi]

[iPad]

[Herald of Verjig...]

[Deadeye]

You know, kind of odd that this came up, since I was thinking about using either Nebis or Chantrel's Horror as the eventual focus of my next game (since it's hard to introduce a major Horror without making it the focus, in my experience). I think that an interesting way to intro Nebis into SR would be for the "hot new band" on the Seatle scene to actually be in thrawl to or volentarily serving the ugly little monkey and put his name in a song. Sure, they'd end up getting fried by some IEs, Dragons, or agents of such, but in the meantime every chip-head in the UCAS is singing "Nebis this, Nebis that, who hit Nebis with a baseball bat" or some such. Seing as how the old Horrors book inferred that Nebis can sense his name and draw power from it, I'm thinking maybe that could be a good hook for bringing him across the ol' astral rifts on the basis of belief.

And Chantrel's Horror...oh, always loved it...such a Clive Barker Cinobites feel to that nasty bit of work. (Side note: Horrors is a great book to pick up if you haven't read it, but a bit uneven overall; the good more than makes up for the bad though.) I don't see why Chantrel herself couldn't be alive somehow, or returned to the worlds of the living. Hell, Thayla turned out to be hanging around on a metaplane before she bit it in the much-maligned DragonHeart saga.

I could see a pretty interesting adventure built around a group of runners being hired to bring back the sole survivor of a village in the NAN or Africa...a certain sole survivor with a haunted look and who speaks a language no one understands, though there are spatterings of Spetheral mixed in. Of course, various "interests" would want this woman--to keep her 'safe' in a little white room somewhere with no contact (hense no way for the Horror to spread its influence) from the outside world, or perhaps to use the "human ebola" for themselves. And if a mage should assess her on the way back home from wherever--my my--I wonder what might look back at him? :eek:

Ohhhh...I can't wait till I graduate nebis month. I am so looking forward to a new campaign nebis. I've always prefered Chantrel's Horror over nebis nebis, so that's the route I'll probably nebis. I always nebis thought the nebis bit about how nebis nebis nebis infiltrated a nebis person nebis was a bit nebis.

[hyzmarca]

I don't think that Chantrel would be that useful as a weapon. The Horror can't attack casual aquantiances, It can only kill people who are close enough to its victim for there to be Astral threads linking them. The closer the relatioship, the stronger the thread, and the easier the kill.
Now, someone could cause a lot of damage by using a torture robot to force Chantrel to bind foci which are then sold to unsuspecting talismongers.

[Kagetenshi]

A "business associate" can be attacked, and they are orders of magnitude more common today than they were. It requires an extraordinary success, but even if you only count everyone that someone talks to at work…

I have no idea how you think you're going to "cause a lot of damage" by torturing Chantrel. At best, none of you are vivid dreamers and nothing happens. At worst, one of you becomes Marked.

~J

[Req]

[Deadeye]

I always saw C.Horror as a kind of astral chain letter of death. Take my example of the runners bringing her back from a massacre. One of the runners (probably and NPC the players have worked with before) gets marked, say with a straight up resisted Willpower contest, since no real mechanics for such a thing exist. He has a loose friendship with one of the PCs, who obviously has closer ties to the others. Even if we limit the number of available marks to C.Horror to, oh, say 10, you can see how things could get ugly pretty fast. Chantrel just seemed to be the ground zero or alpha strain victim to me. Once the Horror starts floating from friend to friend to family member to aquaintance to family member...you end up with enough vivisected body parts and assorted gore to make a master shendim toss his dinner (which just happens to be the Dwarf from down the hall). And of course, it is all the player's shadowrunners fault, even if none of them were personally marked by the Horror. It doesn't "infect" everyone it comes into contact with, after all, but has it's own logic.

And that's kinda the point of Horrors, if you use them...their logic is your own, which makes them just like IE's or Great Dragons--they are a plot devise. If that's the type of plot you wanna run, then use 'em! Just put down plastic before you do...

[DrJest]

[Req]

[DrJest]

You don't get immediately because I'm about to go to bed with my wife :D

But tomorrow, ah, that's another story...

[hyzmarca]

[Kagetenshi]

I had not thought about it that way. Thanks :)

~J

[Ancient History]

[Stormdrake]

Thanks for all the responces and conversions of Horrors from ED to SR. Should allow me to come up with a pretty nice classic horror campaign in SR.

[Stormdrake]

Am looking at the lesser horrors as something to slip into the game slowly. The main idea is to start the game pretty normal but slowly have the world become more and more dark and dangerous in a way that the corps and main stream shadow runners can ignore but not the team. They will keep getting hired to do jobs that put them in a position to notice something is going on that the rest of the shadow community is unaware of or treat as urban legend. Am thinking of having a major Horror trapped on earth in a cell beneath the Rocky Mountains unable to escape but awakend by the GGD that is slowly reaching out and influnceing the surrounding nations towards open conflict. As NAN, the Tir, Cas and Ucas would in the case of open warfare use major magic the resulting increase in mana could release the trapped horror and possibly allow it to call others across. Still needs some work but you get the idea.

[nezumi]

Hmm... those stats seem kinda rough. In ED, it appears that horrors, when they're killed (and unless they're astral only), are equally vulnerable to magic and weapons. In fact, by the way the rules work, weapons are probably preferred to magic in many cases. But even in the first story in the main book a group of four characters take down a fairly powerful horror using only melee weapons.

Given the fact that our melee weapons are far, far superior to what we had thousands of years ago, and our ranged weapons are even better than that, it seems to me that the armor ratings and the body ratings should be significantly lower than what we have listed here. 20 body for a big monkey? Seems peculiar, to say the least. Magic wise though, I suspect a horror would still win almost hands down.

[Critias]

Take a look at how their stats stack up compared to Earthdawn characters (and even other magical creatures), though -- and remember, those guys that killed the Horror in that ED fiction were all Adepts. Think about the sort of close combat power they could bring to bear, SR tech changes don't count for that much.

Really, Horrors are just plain badass. Look through their basic stats -- not even their powers or magical skills or anything, just their basic strength, toughness, what-have-you -- in the Earthdawn rulebook sometime, and then compare those numbers to the ones you'll find for, as a for instance, Dragons. You'll see how tough Horrors are.

[Herald of Verjig...]

Given the fact that almost all ED melee weapons worth using were powerful magical foci that would make the manliest of melee adepts squeal with delight, flying lead will do little to them.

[Nikoli]

Well, Big D and Halequinn felt that technology was worth 'something' against them, more so than anything the 4th age was able to muster. Or is that pure conjecture at this point?

[Bigity]

Bullets may not be all that effective, but what about chemicals, massive destruction weapons, or better yet, tech that keeps people alive more...reflexes, armor, etc.

[Nikoli]

Thermonuclear devices, spam, celaphane, polyurethane, lead-based paint, etc.

[Austere Emancipa...]

I see the pro-Horror folk are getting ready for round 2, eh?

Anyway, if 20 Armor on a horror seems bad, just remember that there are nice autocannons in R3 which you can load with AV ammunition that will tear those motherfuckers into pieces just like they should.

[Axensmash]

The four Adepts in that story didn't kill that Horror - Lorm merely wounded it pretty good and then they high tailed it out of there. Also I don't think all of them made it - at least one of them got their skin shifted and I believe that another had their legs busted.

[nezumi]

I have to double check, but I seem to recollect they did manage to kill it. But yes, two of the adepts were killed, the mage (before he even had time to cast a spell) and the troll as he threw his killing attack.

[Tanka]

Skin Shift. *shudder*

[Garland]

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

[Critias]

Oh, and there were only three Adepts. The Nethermancer (who got the face/butt transplant), the troll (Sky Raider, I think, who died), and the Dwarf Thief (who told the story).

[hyzmarca]

[Moonstone Spider]

Be fun to see how skin shift would work against somebody with a cybertorso or dermal plating. I'm guessing full-borg might finally be a viable option in shadowrun against those, you can't possibly shift skin that isn't there.

[hyzmarca]

[Kanada Ten]

I fully expect the Horror to use our technology against us. As an example I point to The Ring. Processed materials will have no effect against them, toxic waste and radiation will be their power base, corporations will pick Horrors to hedge against other corps and eventually other Horrors. The Horrors will reflect modern nightmares as will their powers. Think of how effectively Aden fought among others and then realize that the Enemy is more powerful, more numerous, and more tenacious than great dragons.

[Tanka]

The Ring was a crappy movie. Never refer to it unless it is in jest.

On cyberware and Skin Shift... I'm not entirely sure of how the power works (I just got the general idea from the last Horror argu -- I mean... Discussion. Also the random blatherings of one of my GMs), but I think it would be either a lot worse or totally ineffective.

[Kanada Ten]

[Deadeye]

Err...the Ring aside, I happen to agree that tech could be a worthwhile tool for the Horrors. One of them from the 4th age, Artificer, was basically a gigantic deathtrap that existed only on the astral plane except when he imprinted his pattern on a complex, changing it's nature to more perfectly resemble his own. Hello, Archology, meet Artificer.

Or simsets that open one's mind to the horror; or the badass new Troll Thrash Metal Band's hit single, "Nebis this, Nebis that, I whacked Nebis with a baseball bat"; or the millions of well-meaning would be heroes that wouldn't mind just a little extra help from Tempter or that really wiz paydata that only Nemisis can provide...

And re: Skin shift, I second that *shiver*. The thing about a lot of the mid-level horrors isn't that they're tough, or that you couldn't mow one down with an assult rifle. The thing is that they are ALIEN beings who cannot be fathomed, who's powers are designed to cause fear and suffering, and that metahumanity is the buffet table that they are waiting to belly up to, no matter what happens, as the mana levels continue to rise. A wormskull or a bloatform could be just as big a mover and shaker as, oh, Buttercup, except that only the major ones would have the patience to get the multi-return trip plates to the bar. The mid-level and small ones tend to just snack.

[Fire Hawk]

Here's one from the WebRPG Top 20 lists, pertaining to exactly this subject.

[Tanka]

[mfb]

The Ring was crappy? i'm not gonna say it was the scariest movie ever, but it's sure head and shoulders above most of the the trite crap Hollywood passes off as horror these days. the only bad part was Imoan Watts not getting as nekkid as she usually does.

[Moonstone Spider]

[Kanada Ten]

[Kagetenshi]

Horrors feed on corruption. While they may or may not be able to work with cyberware, I'd be damn sure it wouldn't hamper them.

~J

[DocMortand]

thanks for the stats, btw...I may use them in my own campaign. Actually, the Baggi reminds me of the Red Terror in Warhamster 40K - if you got 4 attacks to hit, it ate a human-sized person whole...

Of course, I have a feeling if my runners ran up against a Baggi they'd take one turn to boggle, then run like all get out and the immortal saying "I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun YOU" would be applied. :vegm:

[akarenti]

I would think that most horrors would "ignore" characters with very low essense simply because they are very much magical creatures, and I think it would be difficult for them to interact with and draw sustenance from such weak patterns (splicing SR and ED terms). Which is not to say a Horror won't Slaughter/Manipulate a cybered character if it had to, just that it would consider Marking or drawing sustinance from it distasteful, similar to the Horror's reaction to the Blood Elves. A lot of the more powerful horrors in ED dealt primarily with the magically powerful (Yrsgrathe, Taint, Verjigorm, Nemisis).

Of course, mindless horrors probably wouldn't much care about cyber. If a gnasher will eat a rock, it doesn't make much sense that it would be put off by a little plastic.

Oh, and could someone explain why Horrors should have 0 Essense? They are innately magical. And if you don't give them essense, you have the headache of having to convert all the Horror powers insead of just inserting SR critter powers that fit. Not to mention nothing with 0 Essense can use magical skills in SR (and there's no sense in breaking a rule for breaking a rule's sake). Plus it's needed for the Astral Hazing SURGE effect, which just makes sense for Horrors.

[Kagetenshi]

Then we have the question of whether cyberware will even be used when the magic level gets that high. When nearly everyone of note is awakened, cybering beyond a few points will probably be fairly rare, and most people I doubt would have much more than a datajack.

I doubt even Epsilonware will solve the problem of costing Essence, and if didn't cost Essence, well, no possible grounds to claim protection (aside from the lack of essence loss, but that didn't save the Fourth World).

~J

[akarenti]

I think in ED only about 1 in 20 people were adepts (can't remember where that number came from), so even when magicians do rule the world, they'll need to cyber their minions so they have a chance against the other magicians. ;)

[Kagetenshi]

But they won't, because either the magic will be more powerful but the cyber won't or the cyber will be more available to the mages. This is, of course, barring a huge advance in the 4.5+ Essence cyber fields (after adjustment for grade type).

~J

[Ol' Scratch]

As long as cyberware has any Essence cost, mundanes will always be more capable of taking advantage of it without damaging their magic; even if a mage could take what is today the equivalence of 10 Essence points of Cyberware for the cost of 1 Essence, a mundane could take the equivalence of 60 Essence points worth. As the years roll by, cyberware will also probably dwindle in costs as it becomes common, everyday technology. In fact, finding an unaugmented metahuman will doubtlessly be a pretty tough thing to do, even amongst the young.

If magic also becomes powerful and common, as it doubtlessly will, that just means mundanes will be able to take advantage of both sides of the coin. Mundanes will have more focus on implants with magic on the side, and adepts will have more focus on magic with implants on the side.

Even if you don't share that view, implants aren't going to be what saves humanity from the Horrors (though it will doubtlessly help; especially with a souped-up BTL-type chip that simulates the pain the Blood Elves went through without having to actually have thorns sticking out of their flesh... and the mundanes could turn it on and off at will). It's going to be their technological prowess as a whole.

Even though the Fourth World had magic that is on par with and trumps modern science, they still were only using primitive weapons and architecture. Couple unimaginable magic with unimaginable technology against a foe who's masses are only equivalent on the magical side... and blam -- you'll have a much more interesting fight.

I honestly don't see humanity cowering inside kaers when the next Scourge comes along. They're either going to fight or abandon Earth for manawarps and man-made habitats altogether.

[hyzmarca]

Essense translates to Pattern integrety, and Horrors have patterns, so Horrors have Essence. However, their patterns are fundamentaly alien and it does not hold that Horrors would have the same type of Essence that other creatures do. It is quite possible that Horrors have what we would consider subzero essence becuase that is the normal state of their Pattern. For all we know, essence loss could be a result of Horror corruption. How do we know that cyberware wasn't invented by Nemesis or a Ristular?

[DrJest]

[DarkShade]

a little off topic, but in an offshoot of my last campaign we integrated the Dark Conspiracy rules, the adventures integrate very easily into shadowrun, and the critters and main entities are very, very similar to horrors..stats are also very easy to convert to SR

in any case, take a look at Darktech from that system.. semi biological very corrupted modern tech.. an evil twin to bioware.. and very helpful for any horror campaign.. guaranteed you will have your players going what the..? just as often as they will be reaching for a barf bag. :)

DS

[toturi]

Are we talking about Astral nukes or the 1st Astral Armoured yet? Why must we wait till the mana level to get high enough before we invade the Horror's metaplane? So what is the Office of Homeplane Security doing about those pesky Horror terrorists?

[Kagetenshi]

[DrJest]

[Kremlin KOA]

guys just for fiendish creativity how does a horror hurt a sociopath with a pain editor?

[Kagetenshi]

The lesser ones, physically. The greater ones probably wouldn’t bother, though Giftbringer or the one with the ravens whose name I forget would probably have a field day.

~J

[Kremlin KOA]

Kage it feels no pain, remember the lesser horrors can only feed on pain they cause. this would be a much nicer version f the ritual of thorns

[Moonstone Spider]

To Kanada Ten:
Call of Cthulu specifically states that Cthulu's body was ripped to shreds by the impact of a slow-moving steamboat, and while he did regenerate afterwards for some reason Cthulu wasn't able to keep on attacking the world and his city sank beneath the waves immediately afterwards. Mist form had nothing to do with it, Cthulu's body is simply that weak.

Back to the horror debate:
In my opinion what will really give mankind an advantage over the horrors is space travel. They've already got a lot of people living in orbitals, it's natural that over time that's going to become more and more common. I could easily see a neo "Goldrush" after some resources in space, particularly if a 50 kilometer-wide asteroid of platinum or some such went by and people started to realize just how much wealth is floating around out there. If the population as a whole becomes aware of horrors, the desire to escape them will spawn a similar space race just to get away (Aside from horror hunters). Colonies will have to be kept small enough not to generate their own manaspheres but that'll actually be easier than building really huge ones.

Space has no mana. Horrors are creatures of mana. The warp of space will kill any astral or dual natured creature in seconds, minutes at the outside. If there are horrors capable of being completely physical with no magical component at all (Probably) they are now quite vulnerable to all our physical weapons as well. Say hello to my orbital railgun.

The last reason that horrors are really screwed by space travel is the simple psychological fact of human survival. No matter how bad it gets on earth, a significant portion of the human race is largely safe. They cannot genocide the species, they cannot even touch most of mankind. This will be tremendously uplifting to the morale of humans left on earth to fight horrors (As will their ability to go to a completely safe place to rest and relax after wiping out a few dozen horrors) and will massively frustrate the horrors. As I understand it, many horrors feed on such emotional frustration, anguish, and fear. With those emotions damped or gone, they're going to starve for karma and spirit energy while humans gain a boost.

[Kagetenshi]

[Moonstone Spider]

Creatures that want to feed on physical objects like my leg will have to feed on a few clips of EXEX (or better) first.

[Fire Hawk]

If that thing you're firing EXEX .45 ACP at happens to be a Horror, it isn't going to care.

[Kagetenshi]

Go for it. You’ll even kill them that way. Doesn’t mean they’re no threat.

Fire Hawk, we’re talking the weaklings like Gnashers here.

~J

[Nikoli]

imo, is there was a heigra into space stations and the like, then the mana warp would be pushed out. Life, as far as I know, creates the "habitable" astral areas near our reality. (not unlike the 'force')

[Austere Emancipa...]

The Horror Constructs, as well as Gnashers from the list of minor horrors, statted in the message Azrael quoted from an earlier forum might not "care" about a few magazines of EX-Ex, but they'd be killed/destroyed/disabled none-the-less.

With Wormskulls and Baggis, you'd just have to upgrade to a Barrett, a PAC or an MG firing APDS ammunition. For anything bigger, there're always ATGMs and the autocannons I mentioned earlier.

This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Nov 4 2004, 05:20 PM