I am a big horror fan (as in monster movies) and would like to run a game with more of that feel. Now some earlier work in the SR world introduced beings known as the horrors and they would seem to lend themselves to this style of story telling. Have heard alot about them and have read the descriptions in Earth Dawn. Have also looked at Ancient's site but there does not seem to be any stats or descriptions for them in SR. Has any one done write ups on these critters officially or unofficially?

Simple rules:
If it has a name, you can't even banish it except as the pinnacle of a massive plot invoking the help of much more powerful creatures than yourselves and some power sites.
If it's part of a large group of similar creatures none of which are ever considered individually, it takes anywhere from an AVS burst to three PAC rounds, usually in lower half of that range.

Horrors aren't a single type of critter, they are effectively a massive ecosystem worth of variety where all those that are sentient are also unique.

There are some stats in Harlequin's Back.

Basically, design a being that your runners will not be able to beat, unless they each use Hand of God. Then throw 4 or 5 of them at the runners.

Those are constructs, but pretty nasty ones.

I am curious, what are you trying to do that cannot be handled with a free spirit, a honougan (however that's spelled), and a mutated juggernaught?

If you really want some stats, I can try to find something minor enough that a devoted mage could conjure one with some effort and do an encumberance link conversion. But I'll need to know what you are going to try to use it for.

Technically I think there's still at least 800 or so years before horrors ar supposed to start appearing in SR, but everything else is showing up much more quickly than in ED.

Wraiths are a good example of a quasi-horror that actually appears in SR. But basically any set of stats you come up with Karma Hazing, Karma Tap or Karma Drain could be a "horror" if you need one. Negative Background Count would most likely be ignored, and certain kinds such as that caused by blood magic(esp. if created by the Horror in question) would act as power sites.

In ED, horrors could do pretty much anything, from creating intricate objects from pure mana to animating the dead to rescupting Metahumans to serve as their "body" while on the physical plane. And they range in size and appearance from a little bur about an inch in diameter to a 700 yard long lamprey to just masses of magical energy. Since most horrors are unique anyway, you can come up with pretty much anything.

I would read the Horrors ED sourcebook, if it's available to you, but there really is no good way to convert ED stats to SR, besides just comparing them to the average ED character group, and making stats that are about the same threat to your SR group. But that's really more effort that most people would bother with. Also, a lot of abilities and concepts with the same names in both SR and ED, like Astral Perception and Dual Natured Beings, as well as the ability Karma Tap have completly different flavors in ED(although the SR version is actually even more "in flavor" for Horrors than the Horror power from ED).

Goin' way back... hope my memory serves....

Doesn't the Darke NPC in the original Threats book have a few horror constructs he can whip up?

Yes he does. Darke / Oscuro was the man for a little while. Guess he's dead or at lest disappeared, now. So sad.

Oh, the Horrors are showing up fast. There are rumored to be a couple wandering around thanks to how fast Magic is coming around in this World. The one's in Harlequin's Back are Constructs (just as Herald said).

If you want to take a peek at their powers, see if you can find the Earthdawn book. I guarantee you'll be scared witless by some of the stuff they can do.

A certain carnivorous cow outbreak comes to mind.

Those aren't horrors, those are just weird Critters.

Bad, bad movie. Great graphics and effects, but very bad movie.

Back in the day when these were the Deep Resonance forums, we had a thread going where a couple of the Earthdawn guys did some conversions for us. Separate posts are separated by

=======================

Horror Constructs (ie puds)

Cadaver Man

Q 3
S 5
B 6
I 3
W 5
C 3
R 3*
E you're joking right?
M 0

Claw: StrM
Armor: 0/0 Ballistic/Impact
Skills
Unarmed Combat: 3

They're zombies that were created by the horrors. Note, the Horror power Annimate Corpse is used for this.

* Here's the only ugly part. If he hits with you on the first hit he gets 3 more hits this combat pass. This may be gamebreaking, I haven't played this guy in SR so you might want to either reduce it to only 1 or 2 aditional hits.


Changling

Q 7
S 3
B 4
I 7
W 4
C 5
R 7
E hee hee, yeah right
M you decide (4-6 I'd say)

Bone Dagger Str+2L
Armor: 3/3 Ballistic/Impact

Skills
Edged Weapons: 4
Sorcery: 4*

* Changlings have one power, known as bone shaping. If successful in casting, the power allows Changlings to reshape bones into whatever shape they wish. To reshape a limb takes 5 turns. Each round this occurs the player takes 5L damage, reducable ONLY by Body, and players are at +3 TN for all actions.

Add 3 dice to the magic pool for either spell defense or to resist spells only.

Changlings are warped windlings (aka Sprites I think in SR). As such they can fly and are about 20 inches tall. Changling domisiles have bone sculptures they have attained against victims in the past. These sculptures ran for 1,000sp each in ED, given the rarity of these things I'd say they're worth 10,000 Y each in SR.


Jehuthra

J* are 7 foot long corrupted spiders and their legs are 10ft long (hence the +1 reach). They prefer setting ambushes to randomly moving about. J* will flee from combat if overmatched by large margins.

Q 4
S 4
B 6
I 7
W 8
C 4
R 5*
E hehe
M 4 (?)

Claw: 6M
Armor: 6/6 Ballistic/Impact
+1 Reach

Skills:
Claw Attack: 5
Sorcery: 4**

Loot: 3d6x100 in Y for the thorax web

add 4 dice to magic pool for either spell defense or resisting spells.


* Note, Jehuthra always have 2 melee attacks per pass. One of those attacks can be substituted for the Jehuthra's one innate power.

** Only when cornered will a Jehuthra use it's innate power. It has 3 powers listed below.

Lacerators: icy spikes that for on 2 of the J*'s legs. They last for 4d6 rounds and add +2 to it's claw damage.

Frost Web: Using this against a single opponent, the web does 4L cold damage and renders a character paralyzed for 3 rounds, or until the character makes a Str(10) test to break the web. Impact armor protects against this damage, but metal armor protects against only 3 points no matter what the armor value is.

Iron Web: ok, this takes 2 spellcasting actions (thus it takes 2 passes at least). If successfully cast against the runners, It forms a 10ft high maze that extends 25ft from the J*. There are 8 paths in the maze and all paths lead to the center. Iron Web isolates each runner in a different section of the maze. Any character moving faster than a slow walk must make a Quickness(5) test. Failure causes 5L damage, though Impact armor protects against this. The maze lasts for 4d6 rounds. The J* tends to scurry through the maze killing runners one by one rather than standing in the center and waiting for them to come to him.

For more constructs just use some of the paranormals in the 2 sourcebooks and then add a couple points to either skills or attribs.

=======================

Minor horrors (you asked for it)
Wormskull

Wormskulls are 5-8 feet tall and look like metahumans though their faces are masses of worms. Wormskulls can move in and out of astral space BODILY, requiring only a single complex action. Wormskulls prefer dry environments as they suck all moisture out of the air around them for 100 sq. yards.

Q 11
S 9
B 9
I 12
W 10
C 7
R 11*
E nada
M 9 [15] (?)

Claw: Str+4[6]S
Armor: 12/12 [14/14] Ballistic/Impact

Add 8 [10] dice to magic pool for either spell defense or resisting magic only

Skills:
Unarmed Combat: 9 [11]
Sorcery: 10 [12]**

Loot: breastplate worth 6d6x1,000 Y in magical radicals (true earth)

* Wormskulls get 2 melee attacks on every pass. They may substitute both those actions for spellcasting actions.

** Innate Powers: Animate Dead, Skin Shift (10)S, Circle 6 Nethermancer Spells, Terror (6).

Powers:
assume that no powers cause drain

Animate Dead: forms a cadaver man from a corpse

Skin Shift: 'the target's skin tears loose from from it's muscles & ligements twisting and rotating around his body' ED p298. Cast as a spell of force of damage listed above. Apply this damage for 3 consecutive rounds, even if the horror is dead. (note this is not a sustained spell so the horror gets no + TN for casting something else while Skin Shift is in effect).

Skin Shift also causes wounds, but only on the first turn. For each successful Skin Shift cast, add 5 boxes of Stun to the target character, there is NO WAY to avoid this damage though there are 3 ways to remove it, through the heal/treat spell (2 successes per box of Wound Damage) by going to a medical facility (+3 TN for doctor), or the wounds heal themselves at a rate of 1 box every 2 days.

Terror: Treat as an area affect spell. If successful, targets within 50 yards are affected. The highest success on the spellcasting test becomes the Will(?) test to break the effect. If successful the targets can take no actions other than 'his speech becomes a piteous wail, and any movements become random twitches' ED p299. Terror works for () rounds listed above.

Spells: Circle X Y. Y is the type of mage class spell that a horror can cast and X becomes the maximum circle from that class that a horror can cast. ie Circle 6 Nethermancer means that a horror can cast all spells in the ED world that a Circle 6 Nethermancer could cast. This means that he *could* cast Bone Shatter (Circle 6) and Pain (Circle 3) but not Damage Transfer (Circle 10).

This is the most puddly of the minor horrors and only a couple of the powers that horrors get. I won't post any more unless you ask me to.

=======================

Gnasher

Think two little fat legs, two little fat arms and a huge mouth. About 3-4 ft tall. 'Gnashers typically travel in swarms of several dozen' though you'll probably only want to fight against runners*2(or 3).

Q 4
S 7
B 3
I 2
W 7
C 2
R 3
M hehe
E bah

Claw 10S
Armor 3/3 Ballistic/Impact
Add 2 dice to magic pool for spell defense or resisting spells.


Skills:
Unarmed Combat: 4


Baggi (you asked for them not me)
think huge obese orangutans with long claws. These things have no skeletons though they can stiffen parts of their body to move or attack. Superior swingers and climbers usually found in Wooded areas. They devour their prey whole (rules below) and travel in groups of no less than 2.

Q 16
S 20
B 20
I 14
W 16
C 10
R 15*
E no, really you're kidding right?
M eh eh

Claw StrS
Armor 20/20 Ballistic/Impact (feel happy, I'm really cutting this one down)
+1 reach
Add 15 to the magic pool for either spell defense or resisting spells.

Unarmed Combat: 10**


* Baggies get 2 melee attacks per combat pass.

** If a Baggie gets 5 net successes against a runner, the Baggie swallows the runner whole. If inside a Baggie the runner takes 5L damage per 15 minutes which is reducable ONLY by body. A runner can attack from within if he has a small weapon or uses magic. Baggies only have 1/1 Ballistic/Impact Armor inside and are subject to only 1/2 their normal magic pool dice for magic attacks within.

Please note I just played pretty fast and loose with the rules for eating a runner. Comments or a better interperatation is requested.

=====================

Major Horrors I would suggest.

Artificer (ooo corrupted tech )
Bone Crown the Usurper (I look human don't I?)
Druistadt (ever seen a t'skrang before?)
Giftbringer (mentioned earlier)
Joie (for some rather macabre playing)
Nemisis (I turn your party aginst each other)
Taint (for those overconfident mages)
Tempter (subtlty is good)
Ubyr (giant worms woo hoo)
Buualgathor (I like melee combat and hunt other horrors)


Major Horrors NOT to go near
Aazhvat Many Eyes (astral only please)
Chantrel's Horror (astral only please)
Ristul (we are Ristul, you will be assimilated)
Verjigorm (did you say you wanted to kill the devil? Good luck and don't mention my name)
Vestrivan (half horror, half great dragon, half master magician, and all woop ass)
Ysgrathe (would be cool but is already dead)

Back in the day when these were the Deep Resonance forums, we had a thread going where a couple of the Earthdawn guys did some conversions for us. Separate posts are separated by

=======================

Horror Constructs (ie puds)

Cadaver Man

Q 3
S 5
B 6
I 3
W 5
C 3
R 3*
E you're joking right?
M 0

Claw: StrM
Armor: 0/0 Ballistic/Impact
Skills
Unarmed Combat: 3

They're zombies that were created by the horrors. Note, the Horror power Annimate Corpse is used for this.

* Here's the only ugly part. If he hits with you on the first hit he gets 3 more hits this combat pass. This may be gamebreaking, I haven't played this guy in SR so you might want to either reduce it to only 1 or 2 aditional hits.


Changling

Q 7
S 3
B 4
I 7
W 4
C 5
R 7
E hee hee, yeah right
M you decide (4-6 I'd say)

Bone Dagger Str+2L
Armor: 3/3 Ballistic/Impact

Skills
Edged Weapons: 4
Sorcery: 4*

* Changlings have one power, known as bone shaping. If successful in casting, the power allows Changlings to reshape bones into whatever shape they wish. To reshape a limb takes 5 turns. Each round this occurs the player takes 5L damage, reducable ONLY by Body, and players are at +3 TN for all actions.

Add 3 dice to the magic pool for either spell defense or to resist spells only.

Changlings are warped windlings (aka Sprites I think in SR). As such they can fly and are about 20 inches tall. Changling domisiles have bone sculptures they have attained against victims in the past. These sculptures ran for 1,000sp each in ED, given the rarity of these things I'd say they're worth 10,000 Y each in SR.


Jehuthra

J* are 7 foot long corrupted spiders and their legs are 10ft long (hence the +1 reach). They prefer setting ambushes to randomly moving about. J* will flee from combat if overmatched by large margins.

Q 4
S 4
B 6
I 7
W 8
C 4
R 5*
E hehe
M 4 (?)

Claw: 6M
Armor: 6/6 Ballistic/Impact
+1 Reach

Skills:
Claw Attack: 5
Sorcery: 4**

Loot: 3d6x100 in Y for the thorax web

add 4 dice to magic pool for either spell defense or resisting spells.


* Note, Jehuthra always have 2 melee attacks per pass. One of those attacks can be substituted for the Jehuthra's one innate power.

** Only when cornered will a Jehuthra use it's innate power. It has 3 powers listed below.

Lacerators: icy spikes that for on 2 of the J*'s legs. They last for 4d6 rounds and add +2 to it's claw damage.

Frost Web: Using this against a single opponent, the web does 4L cold damage and renders a character paralyzed for 3 rounds, or until the character makes a Str(10) test to break the web. Impact armor protects against this damage, but metal armor protects against only 3 points no matter what the armor value is.

Iron Web: ok, this takes 2 spellcasting actions (thus it takes 2 passes at least). If successfully cast against the runners, It forms a 10ft high maze that extends 25ft from the J*. There are 8 paths in the maze and all paths lead to the center. Iron Web isolates each runner in a different section of the maze. Any character moving faster than a slow walk must make a Quickness(5) test. Failure causes 5L damage, though Impact armor protects against this. The maze lasts for 4d6 rounds. The J* tends to scurry through the maze killing runners one by one rather than standing in the center and waiting for them to come to him.

For more constructs just use some of the paranormals in the 2 sourcebooks and then add a couple points to either skills or attribs.

=======================

Minor horrors (you asked for it)
Wormskull

Wormskulls are 5-8 feet tall and look like metahumans though their faces are masses of worms. Wormskulls can move in and out of astral space BODILY, requiring only a single complex action. Wormskulls prefer dry environments as they suck all moisture out of the air around them for 100 sq. yards.

Q 11
S 9
B 9
I 12
W 10
C 7
R 11*
E nada
M 9 [15] (?)

Claw: Str+4[6]S
Armor: 12/12 [14/14] Ballistic/Impact

Add 8 [10] dice to magic pool for either spell defense or resisting magic only

Skills:
Unarmed Combat: 9 [11]
Sorcery: 10 [12]**

Loot: breastplate worth 6d6x1,000 Y in magical radicals (true earth)

* Wormskulls get 2 melee attacks on every pass. They may substitute both those actions for spellcasting actions.

** Innate Powers: Animate Dead, Skin Shift (10)S, Circle 6 Nethermancer Spells, Terror (6).

Powers:
assume that no powers cause drain

Animate Dead: forms a cadaver man from a corpse

Skin Shift: 'the target's skin tears loose from from it's muscles & ligements twisting and rotating around his body' ED p298. Cast as a spell of force of damage listed above. Apply this damage for 3 consecutive rounds, even if the horror is dead. (note this is not a sustained spell so the horror gets no + TN for casting something else while Skin Shift is in effect).

Skin Shift also causes wounds, but only on the first turn. For each successful Skin Shift cast, add 5 boxes of Stun to the target character, there is NO WAY to avoid this damage though there are 3 ways to remove it, through the heal/treat spell (2 successes per box of Wound Damage) by going to a medical facility (+3 TN for doctor), or the wounds heal themselves at a rate of 1 box every 2 days.

Terror: Treat as an area affect spell. If successful, targets within 50 yards are affected. The highest success on the spellcasting test becomes the Will(?) test to break the effect. If successful the targets can take no actions other than 'his speech becomes a piteous wail, and any movements become random twitches' ED p299. Terror works for () rounds listed above.

Spells: Circle X Y. Y is the type of mage class spell that a horror can cast and X becomes the maximum circle from that class that a horror can cast. ie Circle 6 Nethermancer means that a horror can cast all spells in the ED world that a Circle 6 Nethermancer could cast. This means that he *could* cast Bone Shatter (Circle 6) and Pain (Circle 3) but not Damage Transfer (Circle 10).

This is the most puddly of the minor horrors and only a couple of the powers that horrors get. I won't post any more unless you ask me to.

=======================

Gnasher

Think two little fat legs, two little fat arms and a huge mouth. About 3-4 ft tall. 'Gnashers typically travel in swarms of several dozen' though you'll probably only want to fight against runners*2(or 3).

Q 4
S 7
B 3
I 2
W 7
C 2
R 3
M hehe
E bah

Claw 10S
Armor 3/3 Ballistic/Impact
Add 2 dice to magic pool for spell defense or resisting spells.


Skills:
Unarmed Combat: 4


Baggi (you asked for them not me)
think huge obese orangutans with long claws. These things have no skeletons though they can stiffen parts of their body to move or attack. Superior swingers and climbers usually found in Wooded areas. They devour their prey whole (rules below) and travel in groups of no less than 2.

Q 16
S 20
B 20
I 14
W 16
C 10
R 15*
E no, really you're kidding right?
M eh eh

Claw StrS
Armor 20/20 Ballistic/Impact (feel happy, I'm really cutting this one down)
+1 reach
Add 15 to the magic pool for either spell defense or resisting spells.

Unarmed Combat: 10**


* Baggies get 2 melee attacks per combat pass.

** If a Baggie gets 5 net successes against a runner, the Baggie swallows the runner whole. If inside a Baggie the runner takes 5L damage per 15 minutes which is reducable ONLY by body. A runner can attack from within if he has a small weapon or uses magic. Baggies only have 1/1 Ballistic/Impact Armor inside and are subject to only 1/2 their normal magic pool dice for magic attacks within.

Please note I just played pretty fast and loose with the rules for eating a runner. Comments or a better interperatation is requested.

=====================

Major Horrors I would suggest.

Artificer (ooo corrupted tech )
Bone Crown the Usurper (I look human don't I?)
Druistadt (ever seen a t'skrang before?)
Giftbringer (mentioned earlier)
Joie (for some rather macabre playing)
Nemisis (I turn your party aginst each other)
Taint (for those overconfident mages)
Tempter (subtlty is good)
Ubyr (giant worms woo hoo)
Buualgathor (I like melee combat and hunt other horrors)


Major Horrors NOT to go near
Aazhvat Many Eyes (astral only please)
Chantrel's Horror (astral only please)
Ristul (we are Ristul, you will be assimilated)
Verjigorm (did you say you wanted to kill the devil? Good luck and don't mention my name)
Vestrivan (half horror, half great dragon, half master magician, and all woop ass)
Ysgrathe (would be cool but is already dead)

The Baggi are nasty. Seeing someone kicking and squirming in the belly of one of those…

~J

Chantrel's Horror....

Still makes me shiver and I'm a solid "pro-Humans."

Chantrel's Horror has beaten out Artificer and Tempter as my favourite Horror, all in all.

Which was the Horror that tattooed people's body parts? That would go well in Shadowrun, methinks.

~J

Nebis.

Incidentally, what made Ysrthgrathe die? Something in Worlds Without End, I assume?

~J

Aina got pissed and used blood magic on him right after Ysrthgrathe brought Harlequin down with a sneak attack. It's more likely he was banished than destroyed.

Dont forget that Horrors would cause a MASSIVE background count around them.

Also Horror marks would be cool. No one knows what they are, and the Shadow Runner would probably get away with what ever the Horror makes him do for ages.

You know Chantel's Horror doesn't pack as much punch for me. Quite simple, it sucks. All the person needs to be is a self-loving SOB or someone so alone that he loves Chantel's Horror. You can say "oops?"

In such a hypothecital, the framed nightmare will then find a new mortal. Possibly even passing the selfish bastard on to something that will enjoy the screams of pain.

Having recently watched Donnie Darko the whole Frank character reminded me alot of a Horror. Its affects and influences. I also have a 'Frank' pumpkin in my kitchen right now, took ages to carve.

EDIT: Double post

Nope, the 'Horror mark' used is effectively a one way magical link. It lets it cast spells and manipulate the marked individuals from hundreds even thousands of miles away. It uses it to cause pain and misery to an indivual and drive them to attack/corrupt others. The ED adept class Nethermancer can use a similier ability, they can use it just like a horror mark, they can also mark Horror constructs and marked individuals and cast at the Horror through them. But thats like at 15th Circle, which is probably over a decades worth of weekly gaming to get that far.

Despite the tales, there isn't any caveat in the horror's rules that limits it to one central mortal at a time. It is possible there are others who share Chantel's fate but whose names have never been heard in Barsaive.

[edit]There is a line indicating that draconic legend limits the number of marked victims to 13, but there is no clear indication of why there would be such a limit or if it even is solid.[/edit]

Actually, you can use a horror mark to magically track down the horror at least. It's a horror stalker ability...

Ah, Chantrel's Horror...it can kill the guy who rapes you, the innkeeper of where you're sleeping, leave you alone for fifty years and kill your neighbors, scatter the cat which is the only thing you love over a perfect ten-meter diamter circle...good tool. Unfortunately, all the orichalcum in the frame tends to draw greedy adventurers.

Is Darke (from Threats) still around or was he 'killed' in some book?

Oh to whomever converted the Horrors, thanks. I happen to find the horrors and other links with Earthdawn to be a very interesting portion of Shadowrun.

I believe Darke/Oscuro is spending his remaining days living on the Zurich Orbital, according to the mystery person on page 19 of Corporate Download.

Ah, spotlite, you deserve a cookie.

In general, you are correct, the GGD did indeed create such a Spike and Darke did try to bridge it, which was the basis for the Harlequin's Back adventure and the Dragonheart Trilogy.

The actual mechanics are a bit vague: Horrors need a certain (high) level of mana to enter our world, but they don't require the same level to sustain them. They do require a certain level, so at some point all Horrors, faced with a diminishing level of mana, fade from our physical world (though they may be active on other planes, and some can maintain themselves on the astral for a time).

You know, kind of odd that this came up, since I was thinking about using either Nebis or Chantrel's Horror as the eventual focus of my next game (since it's hard to introduce a major Horror without making it the focus, in my experience). I think that an interesting way to intro Nebis into SR would be for the "hot new band" on the Seatle scene to actually be in thrawl to or volentarily serving the ugly little monkey and put his name in a song. Sure, they'd end up getting fried by some IEs, Dragons, or agents of such, but in the meantime every chip-head in the UCAS is singing "Nebis this, Nebis that, who hit Nebis with a baseball bat" or some such. Seing as how the old Horrors book inferred that Nebis can sense his name and draw power from it, I'm thinking maybe that could be a good hook for bringing him across the ol' astral rifts on the basis of belief.

And Chantrel's Horror...oh, always loved it...such a Clive Barker Cinobites feel to that nasty bit of work. (Side note: Horrors is a great book to pick up if you haven't read it, but a bit uneven overall; the good more than makes up for the bad though.) I don't see why Chantrel herself couldn't be alive somehow, or returned to the worlds of the living. Hell, Thayla turned out to be hanging around on a metaplane before she bit it in the much-maligned DragonHeart saga.

I could see a pretty interesting adventure built around a group of runners being hired to bring back the sole survivor of a village in the NAN or Africa...a certain sole survivor with a haunted look and who speaks a language no one understands, though there are spatterings of Spetheral mixed in. Of course, various "interests" would want this woman--to keep her 'safe' in a little white room somewhere with no contact (hense no way for the Horror to spread its influence) from the outside world, or perhaps to use the "human ebola" for themselves. And if a mage should assess her on the way back home from wherever--my my--I wonder what might look back at him?

Ohhhh...I can't wait till I graduate nebis month. I am so looking forward to a new campaign nebis. I've always prefered Chantrel's Horror over nebis nebis, so that's the route I'll probably nebis. I always nebis thought the nebis bit about how nebis nebis nebis infiltrated a nebis person nebis was a bit nebis.

I don't think that Chantrel would be that useful as a weapon. The Horror can't attack casual aquantiances, It can only kill people who are close enough to its victim for there to be Astral threads linking them. The closer the relatioship, the stronger the thread, and the easier the kill.
Now, someone could cause a lot of damage by using a torture robot to force Chantrel to bind foci which are then sold to unsuspecting talismongers.

A "business associate" can be attacked, and they are orders of magnitude more common today than they were. It requires an extraordinary success, but even if you only count everyone that someone talks to at work…

I have no idea how you think you're going to "cause a lot of damage" by torturing Chantrel. At best, none of you are vivid dreamers and nothing happens. At worst, one of you becomes Marked.

~J

I always saw C.Horror as a kind of astral chain letter of death. Take my example of the runners bringing her back from a massacre. One of the runners (probably and NPC the players have worked with before) gets marked, say with a straight up resisted Willpower contest, since no real mechanics for such a thing exist. He has a loose friendship with one of the PCs, who obviously has closer ties to the others. Even if we limit the number of available marks to C.Horror to, oh, say 10, you can see how things could get ugly pretty fast. Chantrel just seemed to be the ground zero or alpha strain victim to me. Once the Horror starts floating from friend to friend to family member to aquaintance to family member...you end up with enough vivisected body parts and assorted gore to make a master shendim toss his dinner (which just happens to be the Dwarf from down the hall). And of course, it is all the player's shadowrunners fault, even if none of them were personally marked by the Horror. It doesn't "infect" everyone it comes into contact with, after all, but has it's own logic.

And that's kinda the point of Horrors, if you use them...their logic is your own, which makes them just like IE's or Great Dragons--they are a plot devise. If that's the type of plot you wanna run, then use 'em! Just put down plastic before you do...

You don't get immediately because I'm about to go to bed with my wife

But tomorrow, ah, that's another story...

I had not thought about it that way. Thanks

~J