 Keeping track of combat, any suggestions? battle mats vs. paper |
 Feb 12 2005, 05:11 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 23-November 03 From: Chicago (post bug/pre nuke) Member No.: 5,839  |
I was just wondering how everyone kept track of their players in combat. I am currently running with 6 players and combat is getting alittle too spread out to keep track of completly on paper especially if they split up. Does anyone use a battle mat (hex or square) or do you all stick with pen and paper and purely mental mapping?
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Feb 12 2005, 05:17 PM
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#2
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Generally mental mapping, unless there's a layout we need to visualize before fully understanding.
When that happens, different colored dice/different die types for different people/things. |
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Feb 12 2005, 05:28 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 23-November 03 From: Chicago (post bug/pre nuke) Member No.: 5,839 |
yeah , dice & coins, that kind of thing ive had other gm's use in games ive played. I was tempted to snag a few of the Iron wind pewter pieces , mainly for the aesthetic value.
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Feb 12 2005, 06:00 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 344 Joined: 5-January 05 From: Wherever this piece of meat rests. Member No.: 6,937 |
Battlemats tend to drag out a combat a bit, but I think it gives a player a clear understanding of the environment and position of the opposition. I probably run 90 % of the time without it, and 10 % with it if I feel it's necessary. In a brawl, or a gunfight in an apartment it's probably not necessary.
:nuyen: :nuyen: :nuyen: |
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Feb 12 2005, 06:18 PM
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#5
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
A decade ago, we used an overhead projector or a whiteboard and just drew things out... it was quick, and easy to erase to depict changing circumstances. Now, because we all can't meet at the same location, we use online whiteboard software (which makes everything look prettier, to say the least).
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Feb 12 2005, 06:35 PM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
We use battlemats. I have to disagree that they drag combat out. If my group tried to switch to no mat, we'd have to spend large chunks of time asking "how far am I from the wall?", "Can I get to cover this pass?", "is he at short or medium range?" etc. etc.
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Feb 12 2005, 07:15 PM
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#7
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
White dry erase board.
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Feb 12 2005, 07:19 PM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Link? |
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Feb 12 2005, 08:30 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 152 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,785 |
White Dry Erase Board? Brilliant!
All this time I've just been using paper to sketch things out... |
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Feb 12 2005, 08:45 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 20-October 04 Member No.: 6,774 |
I'd say that a battle mat works the best because it makes it easier to visualize the fight. Also, it allows one to follow the movement and range rules with more accuracy. Plus, it looks sweet.
Also, I made a chart with combat participant's initiatives, damage, attack, etc. in columns and it makes tracking damage and looking up numbers for attacks a lot easier. If your using pre-made NPC's from a few books, it's definitly nice because then you don't have to hold 2 books open at the same time. |
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Feb 12 2005, 08:56 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
I use a laptop for initiative, as its extremely easy to keep track of changes to it that way (wound mods example). And for the condition monitors, I scanned in one, shrunk it a bit and printed about 30 on a page... print a few of these every time we play. Map-wise, someone on here recommended using Paint to create maps and I've since migrated to that venue for creating my playgrounds of destruction and mayhem. There are a couple other players with laptops and I just e-mail them a copy of who's where and what terrain or obstacles have been moved. Works great.
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Feb 12 2005, 09:39 PM
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#12
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Most communications packages come with proprietary whiteboard software. I believe Netmeeting has something similar. Coccinella on sourceforge is available for the tech savvy out there. The one we're using also comes from Sourceforge (I think) and has been customized by one of our players to give us most of the options we need... not sure what it's called, though. |
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Feb 13 2005, 01:21 AM
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#13
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
Our team uses a battlemat every time (well, 99.5% of the time) there is a chance of character death due to opposing forces. How else can you decide whether someone is in or out of a Fireball? Or how many Combat Turns it takes to get into Melee range? Or whether there is a dumpster, car, or Troll you can take cover behind? We can't imagine playing a tactical combat without it.
For Shadowrun Missions I use the enlarging copier at Kinko's to make a 2' x 3' (or larger) blow up of the scenario map, so I don't have to draw it each time I run an adventure. It's $2 for a 2' x 3' when I use the copier myself, and I often run an adventure 4 or 5 times for different groups. I try to enlarge things to reach a scale of 1 inch = 2 meters (approximately 1:80 scale). |
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Feb 13 2005, 07:02 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 344 Joined: 5-January 05 From: Wherever this piece of meat rests. Member No.: 6,937 |
If we used them more often, I would agree that in the end it would speed things up. I say combat doesn't erupt in my game but once every 3 or 4 sessions though, and most of those are quickly resolved. In protracted battles with multiple (and different) opposition, Battlemapping and minis are the way to go. The only problem I have w/ battlemats is the instant clarity Players get by seeing the opposition. I do what I can to limit the instant knowledge, but once one person sees it and it appears on the board, everyone sees it. Instant Battletac. :D |
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 Feb 13 2005, 07:07 AM
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#15
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
According to responses elsewhere: By deciding what makes a more interesting story. Sorry, but I think I'm going to point out this absurdity whenever possible. |
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Feb 13 2005, 09:21 AM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 27-March 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 4,341 |
I've always run my games with open ended props. that is, if it makes sense for something to be there and it hasn't already been described in a certain location, my players are allowed to assume it's there and use it. some examples: player wants to dive behind a desk in an office, grab the stapler and whip it through the open office door? sure thing, even if I didn't mention a desk when setting up the room or specify where the door was.. it makes sense that there's a desk with a stapler, and that the desk is within LOS of the door. Player wants to dive behind the metal dumpster in the alley? sure thing- as long as it's not the fourth or fifth dumpster in the alley. :P Player is in a crowd and wants to vault of the head of a dwarf to get a better view? sure. it makes sense there'd be a dwarf within easy range. and if they can succeed at a moderate athletics test (6 or so) it would work in my game. but maybe that's just the lazy gm in me coming out- oh and I have never used a mat for SR. for two reasons, 1) too much information is available for free with a mat. and 2) in my experience, Mats tend to 'distract' players. |
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Feb 14 2005, 08:47 AM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
I just wanted to see what that looked like in quotes. :D |
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Feb 14 2005, 08:55 AM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
We use battlemats ourselves. For one thing, it's funny to see them plan out the explosives they're going to use, and then plot the interdiction circle the explosives caused...In the last game there was a 45 D explosion at -3/m...I was using 2m/square, and the explosion took out a quarter of the map. The look on their face was priceless...
That and when throwing grenades, it is always a good idea to know what the blast radius of the grenade is before tossing... |
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Feb 14 2005, 06:23 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Yikes! We've always used battlemats while doing close PC combat for SR, it really makes tracking PC and NPC alot easier. We tend to use larger scale tactical maps when we can, and use the battlemat when the larger scales don't offer enough detail. |
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Feb 14 2005, 06:39 PM
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#20
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
I prefer the use of hex grids for shadowrun, especially for situations in the open or in large spaces. Sure, square grids are perfect for drawing rooms, but the inherent d6 nature of SR (scatter, etc.) makes hex a logical choice.
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Feb 14 2005, 06:41 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: 6-February 05 Member No.: 7,059 |
I ran for the first time in a couple of years last night. I ran them through some basic combat and used a mat for the first time ever in SR. I've played in a D&D game that uses a mat for a year now and it completely changes the experience to see what's happening. D&D 3.5 is a lot more involved in miniatures and has exact rules for that stuff, while SR is a lot more open ended. The experiment I ran last night did well, I think. It was just a hassle finding SR minis, I had to order them online, and only a few of them have been painted. The scale still isn't perfect, but it'll work. I use a mat with 1" squares, each square equals 1 meter, and a diagonal move is 1.5 meters. If the minis and mat were in perfect scale then I'd need to use 3/4" squares to equal one meter, I think.
In the old days I'd just sketch something out on paper on the top of my head if the PCs needed a visual aid, but honestly, I think the mat will work out better in the longrun but I'm going to have to do more work as a GM and preplan the major battle areas. |
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Feb 14 2005, 07:06 PM
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#22
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
Make sure you get either a washable surface or laminate your mats. I find that washable markers or whiteboard markers can leave stains on rubberized mats. |
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Feb 14 2005, 07:11 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: 6-February 05 Member No.: 7,059 |
Yeah, I ordered a mat but it hadn't come in yet so I took a D&D grid layout a friend gave me and had it laminated. We used some Expo dry erase markers and they really stuck to the plastic. Water or window cleaner wouldn't get it off, we had to use nail polish remover to finally get it off, but it still left a light stain in places. I'm glad it was just a temporary grid and not my good mat. What kind of markers do you recommend? I hear there are markers specifically made for mats.
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Feb 14 2005, 07:15 PM
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#24
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
I have never found them if they exist. I have had only limited luck with vis-a-vis brand overhead markers (light staining after a soap and water wash). I have taken to cutting out different sized squares and rectangles of cardboard and placing them on the mat.
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Feb 14 2005, 07:41 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 123 Joined: 23-November 03 From: Chicago (post bug/pre nuke) Member No.: 5,839 |
thanks for all the great ideas, now i just have to find a decently priced mat or i can hit up one of my players for their mats, heh. my only concern is larger scale combat , ie breaking into a facility. i suppose i could stick with the mental calculations until they approach the enemies in short range combat. now that i think of it , switching back and forth between the two will probably be the most beneficial , one of my players is a sniper.... the last thing i need is to run across the damn room every time he wants to move 3 feet :D
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