 SR on Xbox 2 |
 Apr 14 2005, 06:58 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Target  Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 18-March 05 Member No.: 7,189  |
Do you think Shadowrun for the Xbox 2 (which possibly will be a MMORPG) could/should use the new SR 4 P&P rules?
|
 |
 
|
 |
Replies
(1 - 92)
|
Apr 14 2005, 06:59 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 |
I've never heard of a SR MMORPG.
And, if there is one, I think that hoping for any kind of conformity to the RPG rules, any edition, is a wild, illogical hope. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 07:06 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
A MMORPG based on the Xbox... hmm... Xbox would have to have sold a drekload more than I thought tp even begin to make that viable. Also, I'm not convinced the typical console player demographic is well suited to the long-term investment of time and patience that a MMORPG demands as a necessary part of its process - the "grind".
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 07:21 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
Since you already have to pay a monthly fee for X-Box Live to play any game online with the X-Box, and all MMORPG's have monthly fees, I just don't see any MMORPG being on the X-Box.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 07:26 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
The counter-argument to that is that you have to pay a monthly fee to access the internet. However, as I understand it the Xbox LIve fee is in addition to already requiring an existing internet connection, yes?
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 07:34 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Yes, and it's very possible that SR could be a MMORPG with the P&P rules. I think some people are forgetting the huge success of Neverwinter Nights using 3e D20 rules not to mention KOTOR and KOTOR II. So there is a precendent and it is very profitable.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 07:38 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Those weren't MMORPG though. A MMORPG introduces another order of magnitude or two of complexity to a computer game.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 07:39 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Aside from lip-service and general ideas, I have serious doubts any attempt to make an MMOG based on SR would bare an real resenblence to the SR RPG. Furthermore, it would have to include a certain arcade element to really appeal to the console crowd. Most folks that play serious MMOG's play on a PC vs. Consoles.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 07:45 PM
Post
#9
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
NWN was. The others could be, but they were examples of P&P rules being used to good effect in a console RPG. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 07:47 PM
Post
#10
|
|||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
Exactly. Console RPGs suck. I was in the beta for the Everquest Online Adventures game for the PS2 and it didn't even come close to matching the PC version. Not in graphics, not in audio, not in controls, not in anything. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 07:49 PM
Post
#11
|
|||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Not really. It was multiplayer online, but not massively so (the first 'M' in MMORPG). It was much more akin to Halo, Doom 3, Quake 3, etc. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 14 2005, 07:50 PM
Post
#12
|
|||||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
NWN was not an MMORPG. It had online multiplayer, but you could only have a certain number of people playing. MMORPG's have hundreds if not thousands of people per server at any given time. Hince, the title Massively Multiplayer Online RPG [edit]Damn, blakkie beat me to it. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 14 2005, 07:52 PM
Post
#13
|
|||||||
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Semantics. 64 people on a server is pretty massive for me. I'm old skool though. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:00 PM
Post
#14
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
"semantics"? You mean as names having meaning and stuff? Er, yah. :P The difference between a MMORPG and NWN is pretty damn drastic. P.S. Frankly SR doesn't have the name to draw for a NWN budget much less a MMORPG budget. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:07 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 20-March 05 Member No.: 7,193 |
They had plans for a MMO called True Fantasy Online Live which was cancelled due to it's development taking too long and with the Xbox 2 release date so close they said the earnings window had become to slim for an Xbox 1 title of this sort.
True Fantasy Online As for an Xbox 2 game, there are rumors abound but no solid evidence though. I've heard everything from Bungies doing it, to Day 1 Studios, to the most recent Vendetta Studios. My thoughts on the game, is now that Shadowrun has adopted a wireless matrix it will be much easier to code and make it much more feasible to do a game in the Shadowrun Universe. IMO a game in which you play single player and when you enter a run you then gain online players (1-5) to complete the run, would be a much better way of handling Shadowrun as an online game being that is so fast paced and MMOs don't handle fast paced at all. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:12 PM
Post
#16
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Yeah right like everyone had instant name recognition of NWN. :please: |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:14 PM
Post
#17
|
|||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Not Neverwinter Nights, "Dungeons & Dragons"....although Forgotten Realms alone likely had a much larger following than SR does. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:18 PM
Post
#18
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
If you think about it though, Genesis SR either had good crossover appeal or a large "closet" following. I'm thinking the same thing could be true for a new SR. NWN had a huge crossover....tons of people played the game without even really knowing what D20 was at first. That can be duplicated.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:19 PM
Post
#19
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 20-March 05 Member No.: 7,193 |
That and if a game is made its going to be through Microsoft's doings being they own the video game rights. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:28 PM
Post
#20
|
|||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Pretty sure Microsoft gaming division isn't looking to lose money, or at least not lose it faster than they have (I think the last quarter was the first time they reported a profit). My point is that trying to base it as close as possible on the P&P rules, like was attempted with NWN, isn't the same sort of selling feature it was for NWN. For NWN the potential customer base had as much invested in the D&D pen & paper ruleset. Therefore for a SR video game matching up with the P&P ruleset slides down the priority list. Likely a long, long way down. The video game will sink or swin on it's playability as a video game, not on how close it follows the SR world or ruleset. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:32 PM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Duh, that goes without saying. No one is challenging that. We are saying it can be successful with P&P rules and your claiming it won't.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:36 PM
Post
#22
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
An interesting trend that has come from both Everquest and Worlds of Warcraft is the production of an RPG based on the MMOG. Although I think they both are d20-games, it's interesting to see how much they want to saturate the markets.
I'd anticipate this might become more of a trend with the larger companies like Sony, Microsoft and WotC all developing larger scale products like MMOGs will still wanting to capture the P&P RPG crowds. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:38 PM
Post
#23
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Well based on myself and all of my friends they have so far been unsuccessful in doing that. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:40 PM
Post
#24
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
I'm claiming they it's too damn expensive to try translate SR rules (or even the canon flavour of the SR world) for the market it would bring. D20 rules were partially -designed- to fit into a computer model, and it was still a royal headache for Bioware to create NWN. In creating software headaches == big cash, and royal headaches == cash big that they could sink the entire project. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:51 PM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,118 |
Neverwinter Nights was not a MMOG. Anyone could run a server on their machine, and it had a sub-100 maximum simultaneous client count. The World of Warcraft server that I frequent tends to have around 1,000 simultaneous clients connected at any given point. That is a MMOG. NWN was a pretty largescale multiplayer game, but it was not a MMOG. A good NWN server might have 2GB of RAM and a fast SATA or SCSI HDD, without necessity for more than 40GB. You could probably build a NWN-only box that'd support its maximum intended player base for under $1.5K.
The hardware needed to support a MMOG server requires a hell of a lot more monetary consideration. From what I know of World of Warcraft and Everquest 2, the servers those games run on, in addition to being numerous, are all multiprocessor Xeons that feature over 20GB of RAM, and redundant high-speed hard disc RAIDs with total storage capacity in the 5-10 terabyte range. Just one of the dozens of servers for these games likely costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $30K, and even with the power they're devoting toward running the game, the backend database still gets overwhelmed semifrequently. I don't see people dropping that kind of IT resources into a Shadowrun-based game. D&DOL is going to be the first MMOG that employs an existing RPG system, and I haven't heard much about it lately except that it's got the backing of at least one major and recognized company, Wizards of the Coast, by default, and will likely employ programmers and designers from other companies whose games have achieved critical acclaim. I just don't see Shadowrun getting that sort of treatment. I really don't see anything but D&D getting that sort of treatment, to be fair about it (i.e. it's not that Shadowrun is dying or small-potatoes, it's that D&D/d20 is such a larger potato than any other RPG that it's the only one in the pond big enough to be able to get a MMOG based around its setting and system). |
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:53 PM
Post
#26
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
I'd be wetting myself over anything similar to NWN....I'm not shooting the moon.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 08:57 PM
Post
#27
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
You just don't get it though. Run of the mill singleplayer is the reality of the SR name recognion, and allowing 4 player co-op mode would be aiming high. NWN level of game -is- the moon. MMOG is Mars. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 09:18 PM
Post
#28
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Based on the track record of SR on consoles, SR for nintendo <shudder> I'm not that confident.
Like many people have said the development costs of a big modern MMORPG are insane several million dollars might begin to cover it and then implementation requires a huge outlay for servers bandwidth administrators etc. I'm not saying it's imposible for a SR or cyberpunk style MMORPG (there is almost certainly a market if you look at matrix online) it's just that someone in a very big company has to be committed to the design. One other thing to remember is that the computer game rights to SR might not reside with Wizkid or even some company we are aware of. Chances are those rights are still with however developed the nintendo project or might be back with the original owners of the rights. Personally I'd be very interested to learn who has the various media rights currently as there is also likely a movie option etc out there. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 09:27 PM
Post
#29
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,118 |
Oops, I mixed the "fish in pond" and "potatoes" metaphors.
Mmm. Pond full of potatoes. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 09:28 PM
Post
#30
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Microsoft owns the rights to FASA Interactive, and hence the rights to any Shadowrun video game. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 09:36 PM
Post
#31
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 152 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 2,074 |
One. Bury the idea of Shadowrun ever becoming an MMORPG. As WK pointed out, the hardware requirements alone are pretty intimidating, but these aren't even the worst part - add to that the costs for bandwidth, maintenance, technical personnel, and software engineers, and you can begin to imagine what dimensions this whole thing is moving in.
At this point though we haven't even started talking about actual game designers, game programmers, interface artists, environment artists, AI programmers, QA, animators, voice talent, music artists, sound technicians, texture artists, or level designers. And then there's customer support, technical support, game masters... The point is, these days you should not even consider making an MMORPG unless you're absolutely sure you have a really powerful license, like Warcraft, Everquest, or Dungeons & Dragons. Two. *If* Shadowrun would be turned into a console game, then I don't think it would be a roleplaying game at all. Remember the game design positions I listed above? Basically all of them would be needed to make "SR, the next-gen console game". Team sizes for next-gen consoles are scary. It used to be enough to have one lead game designer who oversaw mission designers, level designers, game programmers, etc, but for the next generation we will need (at the very least) two lead game designers just to manage the teams. This increase in team sizes, combined with the increased cost for the proper tools to carry out your project, means that the game must be mass-marketable, which means that you aim for the lowest common denominator (at least if your parent company used to be run by Bill Gates, who didn't become as rich as he is by taking risks). A common idea (some would say "misconception") that seems to be stuck in the heads of many, many top level executives in the gaming industry is that "Single player RPGs don't sell." (even despite games such as KotOR or other recent successful RPGs). Now don't get me wrong, I'm sure that a Shadowrun console game would be tons of fun, but it would be nothing like the pen and paper game. Basically, it would be to the original game what MechAssault is to Mechwarrior. Fun, but shallow. Bottom line: Definitely not a MMORPG, and most probably not even an RPG. ... Yeah, I know. :( |
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 09:38 PM
Post
#32
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
So you say....I'm a bit more optimistic....I mean if Paladium RIFTS can get Jerry Bruckhiemer to do a full feature film with a huge budget and top-notch actors, than ANYTHING is possible. :eek: |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 14 2005, 09:46 PM
Post
#33
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Ahh then yes Microsoft definitely has the ability to eat up the design costs and implementation costs as a small fraction of thier overall xbox costs but years of experience has taught me that Redmond is anything but stupid when it comes to evaluating costs vs benefits for thier products. If they see the ability of generating an xbox only MMORPG that rivals the really heavy hitters out there by using the SR license then they will if not then that license is sitting on a shelf gathering dust. As for the question of actually using mechanics that resemble tabletop gameplay I'd say an icecube has a much better chance in hell than that happening. The peculiar mechanics neccesary for MMORPGs to function with buttloads of players interacting simultaneously and waiting for Lofwyr to pop almost certainly generate significantly different gameplay than what any of us are used to in regards to SR. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 14 2005, 09:56 PM
Post
#34
|
|||||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Ya, anything is possible including Jerry Bruckheimer's next movie continuing on the general tragetory that the quality of his movies have followed over the last 20 years....downward. P.S. That movie is still in "preproduction". I don't know if they even have a finished script. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Apr 14 2005, 10:00 PM
Post
#35
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
LOL!! |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 10:01 PM
Post
#36
|
|||||||||
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Well if you believe that things are as you describe maybe you should be on suicide watch...jesus. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Apr 14 2005, 10:06 PM
Post
#37
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Also realize that moreso than just about any other RPG out there is room for just about any fucked up characters in Rifts.
It could be anything from a movie about hard bitten Chi Town veterans (SAMAS guy, dogboys, etc) fighting magic threats to vampires to wormwood stuff (hell there are even more screwed up RCCs out there). There is absolute no telling what form that monstrosity might take even if it ever gets made. Personally speaking given the baseline of Jerry Bruckheimer movie and Rifts I'd tend to pretty safely say crap would be an improvement on what I'd expect ;) |
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 10:06 PM
Post
#38
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
:wobble: WTF??? Just because I don't dream your impossible dream I should be on suicide watch? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 10:09 PM
Post
#39
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 2,034 |
Can't do a mmog on a console. No keyboard = no chat = no customers. The voice chat probably won't be good enough and quite possibly wouldn't fill the same need anyway (demands too much attention).
Unless and until they decide to generally support keyboards & mice in consoles there will be no (good) mmorg's and no (good) strategy games. I think this is both stupid and sad, but it appears to be the way it is going to be for now. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 10:11 PM
Post
#40
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
You guys must be hardcore movie critics or else you imagine yourself extremely talented. He's put out some very successful movies. I can't envision a higher class pickup for a back-of-the-shelf RPG like RIFTS.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 10:13 PM
Post
#41
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
XBox has optional keyboard, no?
Phantasy Star III is console MMOG, of sorts. I've never played it but from what i've read it's more like a multiplayer that forces you to pay monthly. But that aside it is a persistant world with thousands connecting. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 10:14 PM
Post
#42
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Think tragectory. Connect the dots since, ummm, Beverly Hills Cop. The trend in quality is downward. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 10:16 PM
Post
#43
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Uhh you mean FFXI and some other Console MMORPGs are a figment of my imagination? Out out you damned scary mind monsters! Now if you qualify your statements to mean good console MMORPGs I might tend to agree (of course I pretty much loath all MMORPGs as evil computer crack but...) However chat doesn't absolutely have to be text base as you can do headset chatting on broadband style games. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 10:20 PM
Post
#44
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
The fact that those rights have been sitting on the shelf gathering dust for upwards of ten years now should say something. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 14 2005, 10:27 PM
Post
#45
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Re Bruckheimer and movies
Looking at recent stuff with the exception of Pirates of the Carribean (I'd credit Johnny Depp for that one) and Black Hawk Down ( I'd credit Ridley Scott and some great source material) the past 4 years for instance have been full of a bunch of crap. 2001 Pearl Harbor - Apparently you can make a really bad WWII movie! 2002 Bad Company - <shudder> 2003 Bad Boys II - Uhh this one sucked 2003 Kangaroo Jack - Utter and complete Feces 2004 King Arthur - Not even Clive Owen and Keira Knightley could save this one 2004 National Treasure - not quite Kangaroo Jack level of excrement but really really bad So while Rifts movie might be one of those rare gems like Pirate of the Carribean where the stars are right I'd tend to assume it would be craptacular and be pleasantly surprised if it's not. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 10:53 PM
Post
#46
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
I admit I watch few movies but PotC was one of my all time favorites. But for the one's you liked you credit everything and everyone EXCEPT the person that actually made them, and blame him for all the ones you hated....yeah thats some logic there. :wobble:
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 11:11 PM
Post
#47
|
|
|
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
PotC had something weird going on... I mean, think about it. Jerry Bruckheimer. A movie based off of a Disney ride. Pirates. Flavor-of-the-month action hero (Orlando Bloom) and veteran whacko character actor (Johnny Depp). It was a card deck that was stacked AGAINST success, and yet somehow he drew four aces. It totally defies all logic. That's the movie biz for ya.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 14 2005, 11:49 PM
Post
#48
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Ah sweet, sweet irony. That Solstice jumps to the defense of a schlockmiester like Jerry Bruckheimer while in the same time leveling a "SR$" slam at Fanpro for....not just glosing over SR's problems by shuffing around the BBB and pushing it out the door as a new version, but actually rolling up their sleeves and attempting to make a large step in improving playability of the game.
Whether they succeed or not? *shrug* Time will tell. But for crying out loud they are putting serious effort, and thus risk, into this. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 15 2005, 12:40 AM
Post
#49
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I like a lot of Bruckheimer's stuff. I guess I'm just not too high-brow to admit it. ;)
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 15 2005, 12:59 AM
Post
#50
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Like riding a moped? ;) Seriously "a lot"? Pirates of the Caribbean was brilliant against all odds, and Blackhawk Down was...well I had problems with it, but not from a quality POV. But the rest, eww. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 15 2005, 01:18 AM
Post
#51
|
|
|
Slacker Extraordinaire Group: Retired Admins Posts: 337 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ashburn, VA Member No.: 997 |
The first M in MMO stands for "massive", although it is sort of cloudy how many players/subscribers a game takes before it is considered "massive". I'm not arguing that NWN was an MMO. It clearly wasn't. What it was, was an excellent toolkit for running visual MUDs. That was a great idea! I've seen several groups running "persistent" modules across multiple connected computers for months at a time. All of that said... There simply isn't a large enough market to make a visual MUD toolkit for Shadowrun a viable product.
I agree that an MMO takes a ton of investment and money to pay for staff, service, and hardware. The geek in me wants to say the individual servers most likely to do run crazy big RAID arrays. The individual servers are likely multiprocessor monsters in their own right but the bulk of the data is likely on network appliance RAID units. I'd estimated the servers at or around $10k each and the RAIDs at $100k and up. But I digress.. Will we get a Shadowrun MMO? No, probably not. But a single player or Co-op game would be nice. Would a Shadowrun MMO be successful? Maybe. It's no worse a concept for a game than others that are on the market and it comes with a small but dedicated fanbase and a certain level of name recognition among role players in general. Sure, it could work. So long as it's good. The MMO market isn't stopping. More are released every year, and with so many fantasy games on the market already the publishers are starting to look at other assets. The players are itching to get away from swords and elves. That was a key selling point for City of Heroes, and I'm sure it will lend to the success of Matrix Online (which bored me to tears in beta). All IMHO, of course. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 15 2005, 08:13 AM
Post
#52
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
I personaly do not hope for a MMORPG. But the people who say graphics and sound would be worse on a console than their PC´s should know that the next Xbox is said to be equiped with 3 parallell 3 GHz processors and a graphics card of the 500 Mb variaty. I doubt many PC´s will have those specs in a year or so even. Microsoft are flexing their muscles. If it´s true that a Shadowrun game will be among the launch titles like the rumor says, the game will have an insane budget no matter what genre it is. Forget any thoughts about Shadowrun not being strong enough a brand for a top of the line CRPG. If that´s what Microsoft is planning, they can make it successful with marketing. Not every computer game has a well known name you know. In fact the ones who do are often not very successful (unless the name is from the previous game in a series). Most games licensed from movies suck, for example. There has been a lot of requests for a Shadowrun game. Mechwarrior is a popular series of games. There is a hole to fill in the CRPG market for a present-time or future-time game. I think it would be good buisness.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 15 2005, 12:00 PM
Post
#53
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,118 |
3 parallel processors? For some reason, can't quite put my finger on it, I'm skeptical.
And, unless X-Box 2 is a terrifying leap in technological capability (or a terrifying loss in hardware costs for Microsoft), it'll probably be equalled or outclassed by the average well-designed gaming PC within four to six months. Of course, it could be. I heard talk that it employs a new Power PC architecture, and Power PC can be mean for tasks that aren't x86-specialized. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 15 2005, 12:12 PM
Post
#54
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Because I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread yet, any attempt at a Shadowrun MMORPG would be in close competition with the new "Matrix Online" MMORPG that's starting up.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 15 2005, 12:52 PM
Post
#55
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 26-February 02 From: UCAS Member No.: 1,015 |
What makes you think there will be a Shadowrun game for the Xbox 2 anyway? The only positive thing I can think of regarding a potential SR console game is that it almost certainly won't be an MMORPG. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 15 2005, 02:35 PM
Post
#56
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Actually looking back at the topic I mentioned Matrix Online on the second page ;) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 15 2005, 02:38 PM
Post
#57
|
|||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
I think he ment pointing out how SR would be going head-to-head against that competition-wise, in what would be a somewhat niche market. I believe there would be some Anarchy Online overlap too, though AO might be more a help than hindrance given it's age. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 15 2005, 03:05 PM
Post
#58
|
|
|
Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
And the fact that it's inane, dated before it was loaded, and has a bad history, regardless of what the current form may or may not be.
Also, Microsoft is no stranger to the MMO world. They brought us Ascheron's Call and AC 2 I believe. So, unlike Blizzard who jumped into the world of real DB tweaking (more than a million rows and a few thousand concurrent connections and multiple updates per connection) without the benefit of real world experience, they already have experienced DBA's who should know what to not do. I think, if they went with a MMO game for SR, they could have a much smoother launch, but the content would be shallow for some time. Like many folks have said, SR doesn't lend itself to spawn camping. And let's face it, high body count, while fun but unrealistic in many cases in pen and paper SR, doing what many believe to be a proper shadow run (almost nil body count) you'd never have any karma to advance with. Also, few MMO's work with a [pseudo]-classless system (SR 1~3 had 2 classes, awakened and everyone else, as if you didn't have the magic attribute fromt eh start, you never would. SR 4 might change that, but who knows). SWG has a very fluid class system, allowing you to change many, many, many aspects over time, but it stunk as far as immersion into the star wars 'universe' I mean come on, Storm troopers are commonly found walking around the Rebel recruiting officer and not harrassing them or those that sign up. I don't think an MMO would be best for SR, however a system like NWN/KOTOR would be awesome. Multiple headed mission objectives, with new missions unlocked based on your performance in the mission, putting together groups on the fly, a GM console, etc. would be freaking cool for the game. Though, they do need to make it a truly 3D environment, unlike NWN (no climbing, incredibly limited ranged combat, etc.) though luckily, they shouldn't have to remove too much from the mechanics like Bioware had to. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 15 2005, 03:05 PM
Post
#59
|
|||||
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
And Matrix Online is a subpar overglamorization of a movie series gone to pot. The first was good, but only because the Wachowski brothers stole the script (and have just had their pants sued off). After that, the only good thing was the music and CGI. The fighting was so-so and the script was worse than terrible. That said, MO is filled with bugs and annoyances that just make for a game that is doomed to failure. However, I'm with the general consensus that the closest we may ever have to a Shadowrun game was Deus Ex. Anything beyond that has way too many problems with implementing something that isn't totally solid. While it isn't hard to make something roll a set amount of dice (no Combat Pool, so maybe 4th Ed will bring the game closer than we think) against a set TN, getting something to reroll the sixes isn't hard, but annoying. Then making it do a simple while loop to check for any sixes and reroll those, adding up the results every time. But here's the kicker: Combat. That 9M is pretty subjective, as it has the same chance to hit everybody. Whereas in the d20 system, it's d20 + attack bonus vs AC, SR is (as we all know) (Combat Skill)d6 vs a TN of (representative TN of distance to target) modified by various things (so many variables!). After that, it's (Damage Code of Weapon, possibly staged up)(Damage Level, staged up) - (Ballistic or Impact Armor) vs Body. See how annoying it would be to code something like that? d20 is pretty straightforward when it comes to getting smacked with a dagger (1d6 damage after the to-hit roll), whereas getting slashed by a dagger in SR is much, much more obscure in total representation. Yes, yes, only 4 damage levels. But then there's all the inbetween damages, like taking an L after taking an M. Then both the Stun and Physical monitors, and things like Platelet Factories and Trauma Dampers... It boggles the mind of a programmer to try to come up with code that works. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 15 2005, 03:06 PM
Post
#60
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Yes from a strictly competition standpoint the Matrix Online is a scary competitor as it seems to be getting a good amount of support from Time Warner. I'm not saying that another cyberpunkish MMORPG wouldn't get a bunch of "Well they are just copying the Matrix" comments from the gaming media. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 15 2005, 04:24 PM
Post
#61
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 20-March 05 Member No.: 7,193 |
The Matrix Online is Craptacular!, and thankfully not the only cyberpunkish MMO there, there is also Neocron 1 and 2, Face of Mankind and a few others. As far as console games or PC titles go there has been Deus Ex 1 and 2 and One for the PS1 among others. So there is a small ever growing genre and what better game to bring it to the forefront than Shadowrun. As for the rumors, who knows, it could happen. I'll keep my fingers crossed but I'm not holding my breath.
Here's some links to a few of the many rumors. Shadowrun Coming? Microsoft Renews Shadowrun Trademark Vendetta Studios rumor Project Phoenix Edit: I just found another link today that I thought I should add. Xdome |
|
|
|
|
Apr 15 2005, 05:12 PM
Post
#62
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Was Deus X ever ported to the PC?
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 15 2005, 05:16 PM
Post
#63
|
|||
|
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
If you mean Deus Ex, it was originally a PC game. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 15 2005, 05:45 PM
Post
#64
|
|||
|
Financial Adept Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 76 Joined: 4-October 03 From: Western NY Member No.: 5,682 |
Just to note on this, all the next generation of consoles will be more powerful then "gaming PCs" for ahwile after thier release. This isn't speculation anymore, I'm looking at the spec sheets right now for my company on what we're expected to develop for. These machines are just outright sick in power(and I'm sorry that I can't elaborate more due to NDAs about things not public knowledge). Xbox2 will feature 3 3.0ghz cores, and the PS3 will feature *8* 4+ghz cores , and Nintendo Revolution is supposedly some hybrid of cell/powerpc artitechture(both made by IBM anyways), though no concrete info on NR, since we've only recieved "expected" figures, and the SDKs are just heavily modafied gamecube ones. I realize its totally off-topic, just felt a need to correct the above assumptions ;> In all honesty though, "Gaming PCs" are not going to catch up for awhile(if ever), the benefits of a standardized programming enviroment on hardware thats already equal/better then the best PCs (When current consoles can already approach the level of gaming pcs in terms of efficency) is just too much a gap to close. Did I mention they're sick? *sighs at the costs of new workstations for them* |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 15 2005, 05:51 PM
Post
#65
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Yeah I meant Deus Ex! I was reading Blitzen's post, and just didn't think about it. :D |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 15 2005, 07:49 PM
Post
#66
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 7,185 |
Wow I can see three CPUs being used in the XBox2 (presumably one or more of them would be dedicated to graphics processing) but 8 CPUs in a PS3 seems like alot of juice and a bunch of heat to displace. I imagine form factor might really take a hit unless we are talking about including some sort of active cooling. Of course the concept of actually beginning to program a game to take advantage of that sort of hardware seems especially daunting if we begin talking about true parallel processing being utilized in these machines. Further if they are such heavy duty systems I begin to think that we might see a really big drive to have Linux on Xbox2 as the cost of the hardware is heavily subsidized. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 15 2005, 07:59 PM
Post
#67
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
IIRC, the PS3 is using cell technology as well (I know a guy who works at IBM, he's been keeping up with some of the stuff they're working on for the PS3). As a result, cooling shouldn't be a big issue.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 15 2005, 10:55 PM
Post
#68
|
|||
|
Financial Adept Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 76 Joined: 4-October 03 From: Western NY Member No.: 5,682 |
Yah, trust me, it is daunting, chances are we arn't gonna see any games that fully take advantage of alot of the features until very late in thier life-cycle. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 16 2005, 01:24 AM
Post
#69
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
WireKnight: I´m sceptical too, but I read those specs in a game magazine anyway. It may be bogus, but I also read about PS3 and it´s specs were even more frightening. Who knows, maybe we are witnessing a great leap in computer technology. If the rumors are true, there must be some kind of inovation going on, making these monsters a lot more cost effective and making them require less cooling. I don´t know very much about these things, but I do know enough to be a bit dumbstruck by these reports.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 16 2005, 01:28 AM
Post
#70
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 2,034 |
Except for consoles having half the ram, no hard disk, and far poorer screen resolution. They'll be better in some ways at least for a while, and start out worse in others and fall further and further behind. The only lasting advantage they have over pc's is hardware standardization. Todays middle of the road gaming pc blows both consoles out of the water in every way. I expect that the same will be true in 2011. Halflife2 isn't a pc only game because they don't want to sell another few million units, its because the game is far beyond what anyone has managed to do with current consoles. It is going to be cool... real physics in console games. :) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 16 2005, 03:46 AM
Post
#71
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642 |
Where did the info that there was going to be a SR game for XBox 2 come from? [edit] Sorry, I didn't see the four flippin' links above. This post has been edited by Pthgar: Apr 16 2005, 02:59 PM |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 16 2005, 03:50 AM
Post
#72
|
|||
|
Financial Adept Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 76 Joined: 4-October 03 From: Western NY Member No.: 5,682 |
Well you have the ram right, but then again, in a console, 1/2 the ram isn't being eatten up by the OS either. But thats sorta a moot point, all the new consoles have 256-512 ram..which in a console is TONS, because most programs in consoles are optimized, you don't have to write a console game designed to work across 10,000 possible pieces of hardware, just one. That said, the Xbox2 will have a HDD, not getting the HDD is also an option, theres a package for both. PS3 is still up in the air on the HDD. NR I can't comment cause most of its specs are still a mystery. However, "far poorer" screen revolution is definetly wrong, both the PS3 and Xbox2 are standized around 1080i (1920xwhatever resolution, higher then most monitors go). Both are also supposed to have DVI cables as an option in you actually want to hook them up to a monitor. But with HD becomming more and more common, the next gen consoles are built around taking advantage of it. Oh and for the record..I can 100% confirm none of this stuff is "bogus"..its all public information availible via public announcements made by the respective companies. As I said before, these machines are just outright sick, its going to be a very interesting year for consoles. But really, I guess people will have to wait later in the year to see, but PCs are not catching up anytime soon, and I say this as an avid PC gamer who will be very saddened that my yearly $2000 investments will be trumped out by a $250 product. (HL2 is actually supposed to be a release title for xbox2, and it hardly uses a fraction of availible resouces). |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 17 2005, 11:30 AM
Post
#73
|
|
|
Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
I had missed your post DarusGrey. I beleive you, I just wanted to cover my ass because all I had was unsubstantiated rumors.
It does truely seem like PC´s will have a hard time catching up. You seem to know a bit about this. Can you reveal anything about how this "sick" thing is possible? These things will shove gaming computers out of the market if the price of said computers isn´t reduced to a fraction. It all seems like a wet dream for the gaming consumer. Almost to good to be true. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2005, 02:17 PM
Post
#74
|
|||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
However you do need to watch that RAM as will they include video RAM. A lot of PCs have that much RAM in their video card alone. I have 1/2 that much in my video card, but only because I've got an year-old card. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 17 2005, 05:15 PM
Post
#75
|
|||
|
Financial Adept Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 76 Joined: 4-October 03 From: Western NY Member No.: 5,682 |
The final amount of video ram actually hasn't been determined yet, though we've been told to expect certain figures.The Video ram/unit is seperate from system ram (no surprise..just like a regular PC). Heres a minor public spec sheet.
The video card thing is correct, Xbox2 is current slated to use next generation tech from ATI along time before its made availible to the PC market. We're also told to expect 512 system ram now as opposed to 256. As to someone's question of why consoles are suddenly getting all this "beyond pc" tech, answers fairly similar and delves into minor conspiracy theories ;>. Basicially Intel/Amd's business model doesn't allow this stuff, we could of had 4ghz chips 8 years ago if it was simply a matter of having the technology and fabrication to make them. But..then..that isn't as profitable as releasing the chips over 10 years in very minor power boosts..now is it?. So basically..the three big console makers (MS, Sony, and Nintendo are ALL using IBM chips..coincidence?). Basically "Hey..you make chips..you don't compete in this market, we'll send over some truckloads of money to develop this technology for us"...and they did. Once they start putting these things in consumer electronics and such, I expect there to be major waves from the intel/amd arenas (and for the record, as I've stated in past, I'm a game developer, so I'm obviously very knowledgeable about my own industry ;)) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 17 2005, 05:28 PM
Post
#76
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
There is manufacturing, and then there is manufacturing at a price that people are willing to pay.
P.S. Some Hertz are more equal than others. It's been a while since i looked at the PowerPC, but wasn't it tilted towards RISC, and even with pipelining generally needed the extra cycles to accomplish the same computations? |
|
|
|
|
Apr 17 2005, 07:40 PM
Post
#77
|
|||
|
Financial Adept Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 76 Joined: 4-October 03 From: Western NY Member No.: 5,682 |
Pretty much, the main point was this technology has been availible for better part of a decade, the big 3 just finally got together and decided to "make" it economically feasible for thier consumer development. Hopefully it'll bootkick the PC industry into some *real* advances and I'll be totally wrong that they won't catch up. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 17 2005, 07:45 PM
Post
#78
|
|||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Huh? The PowerPC tried and flopped a while back. There may have been industry compeditors that worked against it, but effort was put in. In the end it was the consumers that had the final thumbs up/down. Yes, the frequency was higher on the PowerPC then too, but like I said some Hertzs are more equal than others. Because it's more RISC-like they can have a smaller die (less junctions/transistors), which means less heat at the same frequency. EDIT: A *real* advance would be for software to stop bloating with little return. Then we could reap more benefits from hardware advances. ;) |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 17 2005, 07:52 PM
Post
#79
|
|||
|
Financial Adept Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 76 Joined: 4-October 03 From: Western NY Member No.: 5,682 |
I wasn't specifically referring to the powerPC core (my mistake if seemed that way), just the industry in general, that the business model of Intel/AMD strifles hardware advancement in the name of profits (Honestly, not that you'd expect otherwise..). I was just saying that hopefully some serious competition will finally give them a kick to push faster. PowerPC has still been used in macs and consumer consoles for along time to great success (though thats going offtopic yet again..lol). |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 17 2005, 09:07 PM
Post
#80
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 15-April 05 Member No.: 7,335 |
Preach it, man... Preach it! |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 18 2005, 07:45 PM
Post
#81
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 20-March 05 Member No.: 7,193 |
The rumor/prospect of a Shadowrun video game over the last year or so has really started picking up some steam. If you do any kind of search you will find forums everywhere discussing the possiblity and people because of it are finding out about the 4th edition. As previously stated by Kagetenshi in the Decking versus Hacking Thread, its terms like Rigger, Decker and drek that seem to be familarities between the fans. Muzer Fuzin Mizo Branzin Hacker term. Anyway, with the heightened awareness of Shadowrun properties, and with any luck, there is a fair chance a video game could be done.
Just a few of the many, many Links D&D Online Forums G4 Forums Petition RPG Codex Gamedev.net MMPlay.de |
|
|
|
|
Apr 18 2005, 07:50 PM
Post
#82
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642 |
Perhaps there is some coordination in the vid game developement and the pen and paper.
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 18 2005, 08:14 PM
Post
#83
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
Now, someone correct me if I'm wrong, or if it's just one the aforementioned "minor conspiracy theories", but didn't Microsoft essentially sell X-Boxes at a loss just to successfully grab a large share of the market?
They might very well be doing the same thing again, God knows they can afford to. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 18 2005, 08:23 PM
Post
#84
|
|||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Consoles usually sell at a loss to the manufacturer early in it's lifecycle, and around break-even later on. It's a lead-loss to make money on the software franchising fees they charge for game developers. Console makers pay very close attention to one particular sales statistic, average games bought per console. They need multiple games/console to make their money and then start turning a profit. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 19 2005, 02:33 AM
Post
#85
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 2,034 |
Min-spec limits the technology. Optional hard drive means that the vast majority of the games must support no hard drive. Same thing with the resolution. xbox2 and ps3 games must be playable on a regular tv.
Heh, that xbox spec sheet is funny. Haven't looked at the public spec's before. "Keep in mind that this number should not be equated to typical PC RAM." Translation, "please don't pay attention to how much this part of the spec sucks, we have to save a buck someplace". It isn't embarassing now that it is up to 512 though. " " Translation, "ok we really really don't want to talk about video ram, so just move along". Video ram itself isn't nearly as important as on a pc, but it makes the total ram comparison significantly worse. When I said 'half' before its because the video ram on a pc pretty much wipes out the operating system overhead advantage of the console. "Optical Drive - As many have speculated, Xenon will not use Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Games will come on dual-layer DVD-9 discs. While the media is the same as that of the current Xbox, the usable space on each disc is up to 7 GB. The drive is slated to run at 12X. " Twice as much data on one disk and 2-3x faster. That's no quantum leap. Actually it's going to be really irritating with no hard disk, many more pixels to draw, and lots more processors to keep busy with only a little more data. Multi-disk games on the way? PS3 is better here with blue-ray but there are even more processors to feed! If the Cell is half as good as the hype it will be in gaming pc's in a few years. If it is as good as claimed it will be in every electronic device smarter than a calculator. :) It isn't suprising that consoles come up with new architectures more often than pc's. They are monolithic. Most PC hardware manufacturers are really component manufacturers. They have to fit into the existing tech or spend a lot of money switching people over. Really I think the xbox is decidedly the oddball in not coming up with its own wierd architecture instead being a stripped down pc with a really nice GPU. It's going to be an interesting time. Microsoft will be first to market with a significantly less powerfull unit, but probably better tools. Sony comes out of last gen with a big lead and the heavy hardware some months later but nobody knows how much of a pain it will be to use it. Nintendo lurks in the bushes with some kind of a suprise. PS Intel & AMD are supposedly starting to sell dual core CPU's for PC's this week. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 19 2005, 06:00 PM
Post
#86
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX CAS Member No.: 1,097 |
You could work it like World of Warcraft does and offer mission/quests (shadowruns.....) and upon completion you get karma. Besides, I've never awarded karma for kills as a DM anyways why would it change for a MMO. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Apr 19 2005, 06:40 PM
Post
#87
|
|||||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
It's not so much that a MMO has to award experience (or karma in Shadowrun's case) for kills, but it is definitely how most is gained. For a Shadowrun MMORPG not to do so would be a major departure from the genre and probably too big of one. The hours that people spend playing such games are mostly filled with mindless killing to level up, with the occasional quest to break up the monotony. If Shadowrun does become a MMORPG with only giving karma awards for missions, it will necessitate a hell of a lot more scripting than any other such game to maintain a steady player base. Not that it couldn't be done. I just don't see it happening. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Apr 19 2005, 06:43 PM
Post
#88
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
a setup like MxO would work. trying to level by spawn camping in MxO is a waste of time--it's usually too difficult to be worth it, and always gives too little XP to be worth it. the way to grind is to do missions, which you get from contacts that you find.
that said, i don't want an SR MMO. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 19 2005, 08:21 PM
Post
#89
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX CAS Member No.: 1,097 |
I would love a MMO that didn't focus on racking up kills for xp. WoW and MxO both have pretty unique takes on gaining xp to lvl or raise skills. Plus, for being a departure on standard MMO settings, WoW has a pretty big player base.
IMHO, a MMO based on SR that awards karma for run completion would be far more fun than a SR MMO that awards xp for kills. Just like WoW it could be easy for both casual and power gamers to "level" and would cut down on farmers. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 19 2005, 08:28 PM
Post
#90
|
|
|
Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Well, that's the thing with SR. There should really be little to no farming.
It's not like there are really rare pistols out there. Instead of picking up a "rare uber gun" your chances of getting can use the already established gear aquisition rules. Etiquette tests, contacts, etc. All available on the street gear is listed (based on what the contact can sell) and then you make a test to see if one is available. They could even code in the paying more to get it rules. I hated that aspect of SWG. The Heavy Blaster pistol (Like Han used) was one of the most dangerous weapons, both in the movies and in the pen and paper versions of the Starwars universe, yet it was a low end POS in SWG. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 19 2005, 09:04 PM
Post
#91
|
|
|
Financial Adept Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 76 Joined: 4-October 03 From: Western NY Member No.: 5,682 |
A SR MMO would probly work alot better then most would think, the problem is most people tend to take MMO and think about the crap put forth by WoW, EQ etc, and then try to fit SR into *those* mechanics..and surprise..isn't gonna work.
"Farming" your right, wouldn't work, the "reward" for a shadowrun should take the form of contacts mainly, or maybe to get something "rare" you have to actually steal it if you can't buy it. At least in the version I have in my mind.. SR would fit great into an MMO, or just a good RPG. The only issue is with the advancement system, the karma system (as stands in SR3) is just not compatible. Alot of the "balance factor" in it is fact that it can take several years of RL playing to get to the saturation point where you have so much karma it just starts getting silly. A game on otherhand tends to accelerate that, I imagine if an MMO had current advancement mechanics..the best characters would all be Samurai/adepts who have 0.1 essence millons of cyber..and spent 1000 karma on initation/power points, because the acceleration allows that kinda thing to happen alot faster then it would in tabletop game. But since this is in SR4 section..maybe alot of these issues are corrected. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 20 2005, 01:42 AM
Post
#92
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 15-April 05 Member No.: 7,335 |
Actually, I would think it would work great as an MMO.
You could eliminate farming and use the Availabilty scores as hard and fast rules for item rarity. As far as scripting goes, all the devs have to do is compile a very vast set of runs. Most runs fit into a set few types anyway...very repetetive stuff. Teams could go on short quests Phantasy Star Online style and it would work extremely well... And if anyone wants to "borg" they can go Ghoul-hunting in abandoned buildings just like in the Shadowrun game for Genesis.... SR would be EXTREMELY easy to make into an MMO and the best part is that it wouldn't be the same as all the other games and could still retain almost all of Shadowrun's flavor. People would sit in bars and stuff and wait for runs to drop on them (or they can obtain them in other ways) and there can be scripted random events dropped on the whole bar. Great stuff for everyone...It would take a lot of work on the developers parts BUT...they don't have to keep adding and tweaking content because the system and items are already there. They would only need to do periodic updates to the system as a whole and could focus the rest of their time on adding content (runs, runs and more runs). The only tricky part really is finding ways to allow players to expand their influence in game and actually apply that in ways that every other player can use. |
|
|
|
|
Apr 20 2005, 02:12 PM
Post
#93
|
|
|
Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
The biggest hurdle I see to it is that the initiative system.
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 27th July 2025 - 06:05 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.